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Old 12-31-2010, 08:55 AM   #1
Irnwkrkev
 
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415 rwhp w/ stock tune

I went to Torq in Miramar Fl. yesterday to dyno my 2011 SS (VERY nice shop and knowledgeable guys). I was unhappy with my 1/4 mile times wed. night at PBIR- 12.88 @ 112mph with an 1/8 of 8.5 @88mph. I had previously run the car with just the old style no tune VaraRam and Fasterproms stage 1 ported intake and throttle body and ran 8.4 @ 87mph. I was getting wheel hop shifting into second but I expected the mph to increase more. So I went to Torq and it put down 415 rwhp and 384 rwtq. It's a mustang dyno so I'm happy with the numbers. -the wide band fell out of the tailpipe at the end of the run-






Mods are :

$250 Used VaraRam -bought on board
$110 Edelbrock X-pipe (for sound) -bought on board
$170 U/D pulley
$ 65 Gates belt #K060827 & K040353
$250 Clear Image Off-Road Cat-delete pipes
$105 LS9 Cam -bought on board
$ 30 3 bolt cam sprocket #12586481
$ 35 LS2 tensionet #12588670
$ 2 Crank Bolt #12557840
$ 35 160* thermostat -planning on wiring a switch to turn on fans at track
$ 15 16mm 2.0 allthread- 9" long with nuts and washers -for pulley intstall
$ 5 5/16 rod 3' long cut in half to hold up lifters
$350 Fasterproms ported intake and T/B - leftover from my totalled G8 Gt
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$1,422 - $350 (already had) = $1,072


I was trying to see how far I could get the car with a stock tune. It didn't work out too well as I'm getting check engine lights from the cat delete pipes (maybe JBA cats would have been better) and it's running rich as hell up top and a little lean at part throttle. The cam isn't real stealthy since it isn't tuned for it. It sounds like it has a cam at idle. Maybe with stock cats it wouldn't be as noticeable. Paul at Torq said he can probably get me another 10-15 hp + of course all the advantages of no Torque Management and smoother idle with a custom tune. I don't think I'm going to tune it untill I get some longtubes to bring the torque up. These cars are nice to work on but the cam install is quite involved (oil pump pick-up tube is a bitch!). I chose the LS9 cam due to being cheap and not having to replace springs or pushrods and the claim that it wouldn't need to be tuned. Big thanks to ADM for sharing the differences about cam sprockets. After installing the sprocket, timing cover, pulley, water pump, and belts I looked at a pic and realized Speed Inc. sent me the wrong sprocket. They were supposed to call me back quickly and I never did get a call. I was able to get the parts from a local dealer quickly, but I suggest getting them as a kit through ADM or Ligenfelter. I know people say how the stock mufflers without cats are loud, but they are f-ing LOUD! The x-pipe made it that much louder. I did find that the LS3 resonators are not restrictive though. There is only one spot that is dented in a section of the pipe (don't know why? there are no clearance issues). Lot's of popping on decel that annoys me.



I'll try and get some video up about the sound, but gotta get the wife to show me how to post it.
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:08 AM   #2
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I hear you on the loud cat and muffler delete exhaust. I actually installed magnaflow hi flow cats back into mine and am much happier. The tune will help the popping on decel a little bit too. I saw the flutter in your high rpm dyno and yep you have it correct. Your computer is retarding the timing to compensate. Great numbers though...keep it up.
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:10 AM   #3
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well its time to get a tune. lol a tune is the most important part of moding
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:24 PM   #4
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Why would you put a different cam in and NOT tune it? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. I can see trying to get as much as possible without a tune, with just boltons. Once you break into the engine, you REALLY need to tune it. If not for the sake of optimizing your setup, then for the safety of your engine.
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:29 PM   #5
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A tune will optimize all ur bolt ons along with the cam. I would be upset with numbers as well with all that done.... not saying they're bad, but I would expect a little more.

I think you will see a big difference with the tune... good luck.

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Old 12-31-2010, 06:02 PM   #6
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for those modifications, those are very friendly mustang numbers

its saying about 465 RWHP on a dyno jet without a tune.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:31 PM   #7
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I'm VERY happy with the #'s. Paul at Torq thought they were good as well, just need some tuning to get the air fuels better. The cam was supposed to only be worth 20hp. It is a factory cam after all (and only $100). One vendor here stated that a tune wasn't necessary with this cam and called it thier "stage 1 cam". That is the reason I went with it. The cat delete pipes were supposedly good for not setting of CEL's with the O2 bungs welded on the way they were, but they haven't worked out for me. Interesting thing is I shut off the CEL with an old Superchips Cortex I have and it wouldn't shut it off a second time. I wonder if the CPU is "fighting" it or something.

Overall I'm happy with the result. I have less in it than a good set of long tubes (I wouldn't dare put the Chinese crap on my car!). I was hoping to be able to get away without a tune and keep the warranty by swapping the cats back in but I don't feel that's realistic now. Plans are to get a tune and spend some money to be able to put the power to the ground -tires, bushings, trailing arms, shifter. After that I will probably spring for some long tubes and bigger cam.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irnwkrkev View Post
I'm VERY happy with the #'s. Paul at Torq thought they were good as well, just need some tuning to get the air fuels better. The cam was supposed to only be worth 20hp. It is a factory cam after all (and only $100). One vendor here stated that a tune wasn't necessary with this cam and called it thier "stage 1 cam". That is the reason I went with it. The cat delete pipes were supposedly good for not setting of CEL's with the O2 bungs welded on the way they were, but they haven't worked out for me. Interesting thing is I shut off the CEL with an old Superchips Cortex I have and it wouldn't shut it off a second time. I wonder if the CPU is "fighting" it or something.

Overall I'm happy with the result. I have less in it than a good set of long tubes (I wouldn't dare put the Chinese crap on my car!). I was hoping to be able to get away without a tune and keep the warranty by swapping the cats back in but I don't feel that's realistic now. Plans are to get a tune and spend some money to be able to put the power to the ground -tires, bushings, trailing arms, shifter. After that I will probably spring for some long tubes and bigger cam.

How can you keep the factory warranty with a "non stock" cam installed in your car by Torq?
If GM finds out you've done all these mods, I can't see you still having your warranty.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by SGOS252382 View Post
How can you keep the factory warranty with a "non stock" cam installed in your car by Torq?
If GM finds out you've done all these mods, I can't see you still having your warranty.
we all know what this guy did was dumb as hell, but nobody has the heart to tell him... i mean who the hell puts a aftermarket cam in a camaro and doesn't tune it
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:54 PM   #10
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I installed the cam not Torq. It cost me less than $200 for the cam parts. Shit for
Brains (know it all Mike) that posted above me might want to realize that ADM was claiming that it would not be detectable by a dealer and didn't need a tune... not me.
I'm not an internet warrior that pays a shop to put headers on for me. I did all of my own work and the car still drives fine without the tune, it ceartainly isn't fully optimized to it's full potential though. That being said with the money I have in it I am happy with the outcome.
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Irnwkrkev View Post
I installed the cam not Torq. It cost me less than $200 for the cam parts. Shit for
Brains (know it all Mike) that posted above me might want to realize that ADM was claiming that it would not be detectable by a dealer and didn't need a tune... not me.
I'm not an internet warrior that pays a shop to put headers on for me. I did all of my own work and the car still drives fine without the tune, it ceartainly isn't fully optimized to it's full potential though. That being said with the money I have in it I am happy with the outcome.
once you get a tune, you will feel like a dumbass what you said to me. because the car will run better then you think
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:09 PM   #12
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You're dumber than you look in your signature. I've had a car tuned before and it was an automatic so it made a WORLD of difference. I was trying a different route rather than the big money for headers and custom tune, since the car is only 2 months old and I had two weeks off for the holidays I approached modding it on a budget. I think the results are great, but if you were to have to pay someone to install the cam I would definitely go with a bigger cam, headers, and tune. I'm making more hp, maybe a little less torque, than most with long tubes and a tune for less money.
You EVER making me feel like a dumbass is highly unlikely.
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Irnwkrkev View Post
You're dumber than you look in your signature. I've had a car tuned before and it was an automatic so it made a WORLD of difference. I was trying a different route rather than the big money for headers and custom tune, since the car is only 2 months old and I had two weeks off for the holidays I approached modding it on a budget. I think the results are great, but if you were to have to pay someone to install the cam I would definitely go with a bigger cam, headers, and tune. I'm making more hp, maybe a little less torque, than most with long tubes and a tune for less money.
You EVER making me feel like a dumbass is highly unlikely.
i cant say much back to that or i might face a 30 day ban. i got the perfect think to say... to bad
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:18 PM   #14
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what age group are we listening to here?????
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:11 PM   #15
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:32 PM   #16
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Am I missing something? He doesn't have headers from what I am reading.

This is KILLING HIM.

A cam is next to worthless without some headers. You will gain at least 40hp by putting on some headers with that cam.

But I am not sure on the ls9 cam specs...if it is small you might not gain that much etc...
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:53 PM   #17
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Can't we all just get a long??? You are both dumb-asses for even having this discussion.
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:04 PM   #18
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Very intelligent Cheese Head. Very worthwhile post.
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:19 AM   #19
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i got 434.8 hp on a stock long block and tune. without tune i got 429 and 418 tq. so shut up!!!!

Last edited by bowtienick; 01-01-2011 at 12:16 PM. Reason: misspelling
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:02 AM   #20
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??? Why add fuel to the fire?Let it be.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:58 AM   #21
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we all know what this guy did was dumb as hell, but nobody has the heart to tell him... i mean who the hell puts a aftermarket cam in a camaro and doesn't tune it
Mike, why do you do this? You have experience modding and your opinions are good. But why do you insult people? You could be helpful instead.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:06 AM   #22
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we all know what this guy did was dumb as hell, but nobody has the heart to tell him... i mean who the hell puts a aftermarket cam in a camaro and doesn't tune it
OP, obviously you know what you are doing if you can install your own cam. And you are very brave to do it and try to keep the warranty intact. This is a cool thread for me except for the bickering. I started a thread to see how high you could get without a tune just by bolt-ons. The consensus was close to 400 RWP.

But you beat that.

My no tune quest is not going so well. I already have a CEL after only adding a CAI and Race Scoop.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:16 AM   #23
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without tune i got 429 and 418 hp.
Is there a thread on this?
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:10 PM   #24
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ok sometimes the back and forth stuff gets on my nerves. But seriously tunning helps all around, but you can still make decent power without tunning . i have my dyno sheet posted in the ls3 list.
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:07 PM   #25
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Got a tune today. No more CEL's, Torque management, or skip shift. The rev limiter was raised, fans set to come on earlier, and the idle was smoothed out some. Wasn't able to get any gains in power though. Put down 428rwhp and 408rwtq on a dynojet and the car didn't respond to anything. Kind of wierd that it picked up 20rwtq but only 13rwhp on the dynojet over the mustang dyno. Tuner was Jeremy Formato and he does excellent work. The car is driving mucn better as far as throttle response and being smoother but there was no power to be had. Looks like long tubes would be worth at least 20ftlbs since that's what they'd do with a bolt on car with these supporting mods. I imagine they'd be worth at least 20hp too. I'm still happy to get the gains that I did for the $$$ I've spent. Next up is tires and some practice to be able to put this power to the ground. So far 8.25@ 89.5mph in the 1/8 hitting the limiter on the 2-3shift with stock tune. Can't wait to get to the track next week.
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