Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Jason 98 TA
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V8

Forced Induction - V8 V8 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2011, 12:49 PM   #901
calbert1999
Camaro SS Lover
 
calbert1999's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Black IOM
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario (Canada)
Posts: 2,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by PQ View Post
Yup. Zebra is coming with me and we are using his truck to pull my car to GTAHVITs plave. There, in Jacksonville, we will have EFI tune my car.
Awwh... yeah. That's the thing to do. My installer uses EFI Live, it's a great tool, and a good tuner will have you up and running in no time at all. I know someone who has headers, and cat delete who is planning an SC install, but doesn't have it yet. The installer is also a very skilled tuner with EFI so I don't think there will be any issues. If they had it done already I'd be able to ask some questions on your behalf, but I think they're waiting for the springtime.
In any case I'm sure things will get sorted out once you start to dial things in with EFI.
Can't wait to hear the good news. Cheers.
calbert1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 01:10 PM   #902
Russell James


 
Russell James's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 SS/RS LS3 IBM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,351
The rear O2's have no effect on fueling or engine performance in any way. They are only there to report to the ECM on the cat efficiency.

After a lot of driving with no cats, but the rear O2s active in the tune, the only thing that will happen is a check engine light and error code for cat efficiency.

All engine fueling trim adjustments are done off the front O2s. Something else is probably up there, a good tuner should be able to figure it out. Just don't let them go straight to wide open throttle to redline, until digging into what may be causing the trouble codes.

Probably just some little pesky snafu somewhere another set of tuning eyes should be able to find. The engine should be able to idle fine on that base Maggie tune. It's still a stock engine, trying to idle at stock RPM, the air and fuel requirements should be fairly baseline. It's like an air pump. It's still a stock air pump trying to run at 600 rpm. Now if the cam was significantly changed or cubic inches upped... that's when a baseline tune can really have a tough time idling. Because the base airpump has changed significantly. But a stock engine idling at 600 rpm under no load or boost, is going to have a pretty baseling idle fuel requirement. Even if it had open headers or free flowing intake. Assuming the MAF is reading correctly.
Russell James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 01:18 PM   #903
zebra
just can't seem to leave
 
zebra's Avatar
 
Drives: your mom wild!!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: cold & windy
Posts: 11,510
last saturday, it was idling around 500ish
__________________
zebra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 01:41 PM   #904
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
The rear O2's have no effect on fueling or engine performance in any way. They are only there to report to the ECM on the cat efficiency.

After a lot of driving with no cats, but the rear O2s active in the tune, the only thing that will happen is a check engine light and error code for cat efficiency.

All engine fueling trim adjustments are done off the front O2s. Something else is probably up there, a good tuner should be able to figure it out. Just don't let them go straight to wide open throttle to redline, until digging into what may be causing the trouble codes.

Probably just some little pesky snafu somewhere another set of tuning eyes should be able to find. The engine should be able to idle fine on that base Maggie tune. It's still a stock engine, trying to idle at stock RPM, the air and fuel requirements should be fairly baseline. It's like an air pump. It's still a stock air pump trying to run at 600 rpm. Now if the cam was significantly changed or cubic inches upped... that's when a baseline tune can really have a tough time idling. Because the base airpump has changed significantly. But a stock engine idling at 600 rpm under no load or boost, is going to have a pretty baseling idle fuel requirement. Even if it had open headers or free flowing intake. Assuming the MAF is reading correctly.
Hmmmmmm..............

Well, I'm at a total loss then. And I will just wait to get to the tuner. I've done everything discussed. Even started it without the blower pump plugged in. Maybe something is broke?
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 02:59 PM   #905
GTAHVIT
One Lucky Guy.
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: #22 Tom Henry Racing 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,581
We'll know in 2 days and a wake up.


GTAHVIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 03:17 PM   #906
BlownSS

 
BlownSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 1,749
Im hoping that everything goes well for ya! Just finished my gauge install today and while looking at my gleaming maggie, I felt bad (about 6 seconds) for you and your tuning ordeal. All will be better soon I hope!
__________________
2010 IOM SS/RS LS3, Hennessey HPE550 Polished Magnuson TVS2300 Supercharger. 3.6 Pulley. Kooks long tube headers / high flow cats. GHL Full exhaust. ZL1 Fuel Pump/ADM FPCM. MSW Bap. JRE ZL1 Race cam with new springs/pushrods/Trunion Upgrade. FIC 850cc injectors. ZR1 Map sensor. CAI Induction. JRE Tune.
BlownSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 04:44 PM   #907
Russell James


 
Russell James's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 SS/RS LS3 IBM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,351
Does your check engine light work? The engine symbol should come on and stay on with the key in the ignition on position, but engine not started. One position past accessory. The seat belt light should come on flashing and right below that the engine symbol should be on. If the ECM can't turn the MIL lamp on during this bulb check, there is something up there.
Russell James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:00 PM   #908
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post
We'll know in 2 days and a wake up.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BlownSS View Post
(about 6 seconds)
................

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
Does your check engine light work? The engine symbol should come on and stay on with the key in the ignition on position, but engine not started. One position past accessory. The seat belt light should come on flashing and right below that the engine symbol should be on. If the ECM can't turn the MIL lamp on during this bulb check, there is something up there.
Yup. It works just fine. Exactly like that.
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:07 PM   #909
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Any ideas and I'm still all ears. Last thing I want is to get there and be surprized.
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:14 PM   #910
BlownSS

 
BlownSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 1,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by PQ View Post
Any ideas and I'm still all ears. Last thing I want is to get there and be surprized.
You mean like a drunk clown with a scary face or finding out that you have a wire unplugged?
__________________
2010 IOM SS/RS LS3, Hennessey HPE550 Polished Magnuson TVS2300 Supercharger. 3.6 Pulley. Kooks long tube headers / high flow cats. GHL Full exhaust. ZL1 Fuel Pump/ADM FPCM. MSW Bap. JRE ZL1 Race cam with new springs/pushrods/Trunion Upgrade. FIC 850cc injectors. ZR1 Map sensor. CAI Induction. JRE Tune.
BlownSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:19 PM   #911
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlownSS View Post
You mean like a drunk clown with a scary face or finding out that you have a wire unplugged?
hahaha, I told GTAHVIT that was my biggest fear. That I get there and the tuner looks down, says "Hey, check this out" and plugs a clip in and it vrooms.

THAT would SUUUUUUCK.........
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:25 PM   #912
Dr Jkel
and MR. HYDE
 
Dr Jkel's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS RJT/BLK 6Spd Man
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Oxford, Alabama
Posts: 4,462
Famous last words " Hey Watch This"
__________________
MUSTANG...Like Bringing a Hot Dog to a Steak Dinner....There is no comparison.
Dr Jkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:40 PM   #913
Russell James


 
Russell James's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 SS/RS LS3 IBM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,351
I would tell the tuner before you head over the trouble codes you have, and see if they are willing to diagnose those. They will need a Camaro service manual to show what wires and connector pins are involved with that P0650 code.

The only other thing I can think of is to clear the codes, reload your stock tune, then just start it for a short run. Just to see if that P0650 code comes back right away, or if that code is just in some issue with the maggie tune. If it comes back right away on the stock tune, the best thing to do is go down the diagnostics for that code in the service manual. It has you do some wiring checks on the MIL circuit. And if there is no problem in the MIL circuit, the other possibility is a faulty ECM.
I would think a wiring issue is most likely.

One other quick thing to look at is the connector for the tuner, make sure none of the pins have bent over or broken off. And peek into the ALDL connector where the tuner plugs into and makes sure nothing looks funky with the female ends of the connector under the steering column. Mine has 4 pins on the top row, and 4 on the bottom row. Make sure none of those pins in the ALDL connector under the dash have been pushed back.
Russell James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:56 PM   #914
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jkel View Post
Famous last words " Hey Watch This"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
I would tell the tuner before you head over the trouble codes you have, and see if they are willing to diagnose those. They will need a Camaro service manual to show what wires and connector pins are involved with that P0650 code.

The only other thing I can think of is to clear the codes, reload your stock tune, then just start it for a short run. Just to see if that P0650 code comes back right away, or if that code is just in some issue with the maggie tune. If it comes back right away on the stock tune, the best thing to do is go down the diagnostics for that code in the service manual. It has you do some wiring checks on the MIL circuit. And if there is no problem in the MIL circuit, the other possibility is a faulty ECM.
I would think a wiring issue is most likely.

One other quick thing to look at is the connector for the tuner, make sure none of the pins have bent over or broken off. And peek into the ALDL connector where the tuner plugs into and makes sure nothing looks funky with the female ends of the connector under the steering column. Mine has 4 pins on the top row, and 4 on the bottom row. Make sure none of those pins in the ALDL connector under the dash have been pushed back.
I'll check it out when I get home. Gotta hit the auto parts store for my Jeep parts first.

I did check all of the harnesses and clips for a pent or collapsed pin. I'll check these ones though.
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:56 PM   #915
robertway

 
robertway's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Challenger SRT8 Auto
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by PQ View Post
hahaha, I told GTAHVIT that was my biggest fear. That I get there and the tuner looks down, says "Hey, check this out" and plugs a clip in and it vrooms.

THAT would SUUUUUUCK.........
I would take that over a faulty ECM.....
__________________

"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." - Benjamin Franklin




LS3 Camshaft Swap Do-It-Yourself Instructions - 2010 LS3 gone but not forgotten!!!
robertway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 06:02 PM   #916
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertway View Post
I would take that over a faulty ECM.....
Oh. No doubt. I mean. If it's a faulty ECM that's fine. It sucks but I pay for it and I'm done. STILL in the green as far as money. lol

BUT, I may have to tow it to a GM dealer to get the ECM synced.
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 06:04 PM   #917
Darth_Emma
Psssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh!
 
Darth_Emma's Avatar
 
Drives: under contruction
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Marysville, Ohio
Posts: 13,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by PQ View Post
hahaha, I told GTAHVIT that was my biggest fear. That I get there and the tuner looks down, says "Hey, check this out" and plugs a clip in and it vrooms.

THAT would SUUUUUUCK.........
That would actually be the best thing that could happen. Then all he has to do is tune it and you can get home and drive that baby on Sunday!
__________________
Darth_Emma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 06:11 PM   #918
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Emma View Post
That would actually be the best thing that could happen. Then all he has to do is tune it and you can get home and drive that baby on Sunday!
Ya, but my pride would take a major shot.

I know this damn thing is installed correctly. And the chances that something broke (ie.... sensor, wire, etc...) are minimal. If it's not simply the tune, then the next probability would actually be just that. Something broke. Then the least likely, I missed something. I'd rather have to replace a harness, clip, or sensor than have it be something I missed.

Now, an ECU? Ya. I'd rather have missed something.
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 06:59 PM   #919
Milk 1027
Camaro➎ moderator
 
Milk 1027's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 BLK 1LE
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by PQ View Post
Ya, but my pride would take a major shot.
Wouldn't be the first time.
__________________
Milk 1027 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:00 PM   #920
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
Wouldn't be the first time.
Kinda blows my whole 'Shameless' claim out of the water huh?
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:07 PM   #921
2SSRS@Gen5diy
My other car is 2014 Z/28

 
2SSRS@Gen5diy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: By the lake in AZ
Posts: 11,114
P0650 is a MIL,
The ECM detects an open, A short to ground, or a short to voltage on the circuit that controls the MIL.

This is from the GM 2010 service manual.
__________________
2SSRS@Gen5diy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:13 PM   #922
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRS View Post
P0650 is a MIL,
The ECM detects an open, A short to ground, or a short to voltage on the circuit that controls the MIL.

This is from the GM 2010 service manual.


So? Talk to me guys. lol

What should I chek?
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:19 PM   #923
2SSRS@Gen5diy
My other car is 2014 Z/28

 
2SSRS@Gen5diy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: By the lake in AZ
Posts: 11,114
If any one has more info i have the service manuals.
__________________
2SSRS@Gen5diy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:37 PM   #924
Russell James


 
Russell James's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 SS/RS LS3 IBM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,351
None of the pins pushed back in the underdash ALDL connector you had the tuner plugged in to? Shine a light in there. Mine shows 4 pins on the top row and 4 on the bottom row. If any of the pins in that connector get pushed back and shorted against another pin, that can cause problems.

The MIL circuit wire is brown and white. I would look at all electrical connectors touched during the install and see if there is a brown w/white stripe wire. Since your ECM is able to turn the MIL light on, it's not an open in that circuit. I don't have the service manual in front of me, but it will show which connector pin out of the ECM that circuit is. The next steps will be to disconnect that ECM connector and then probe that circuit for shorts to power or ground. With that ECM connector disconnected, and the key on, the MIL lamp should not come on. If it does come on, that circuit is shorted to power somewhere. The MIL should only be able to come on with the ECM connectors connected.

I would only dig into these wiring checks with the service manual page for P0650 in front of you, and go step by step in the diagnostics for P0650.

Since it has P0650 and a driveability problem, I'd plug in the tuner and set it up to watch the data while it is idling. Make sure all the sensors are showing data, MAF, IAT, O2s... if you see a sensor with blank data, that could be a hint to a problem. Just P0650 by itself shouldn't cause a driveability problem, that is only the circuit to the MIL lamp. So that circuit must be shorted to something important, like a sensor. Or the ECM may have gone bad. The service manual will take you through the proper circuit checks, if the MIL circuit checks out, it will say - replace ECM.

Last edited by Russell James; 01-19-2011 at 07:53 PM.
Russell James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 08:35 PM   #925
PQ
1st State Chevy supporter
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Hybrid SS Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,526
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRS View Post
If any one has more info i have the service manuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
None of the pins pushed back in the underdash ALDL connector you had the tuner plugged in to? Shine a light in there. Mine shows 4 pins on the top row and 4 on the bottom row. If any of the pins in that connector get pushed back and shorted against another pin, that can cause problems.

The MIL circuit wire is brown and white. I would look at all electrical connectors touched during the install and see if there is a brown w/white stripe wire. Since your ECM is able to turn the MIL light on, it's not an open in that circuit. I don't have the service manual in front of me, but it will show which connector pin out of the ECM that circuit is. The next steps will be to disconnect that ECM connector and then probe that circuit for shorts to power or ground. With that ECM connector disconnected, and the key on, the MIL lamp should not come on. If it does come on, that circuit is shorted to power somewhere. The MIL should only be able to come on with the ECM connectors connected.

I would only dig into these wiring checks with the service manual page for P0650 in front of you, and go step by step in the diagnostics for P0650.

Since it has P0650 and a driveability problem, I'd plug in the tuner and set it up to watch the data while it is idling. Make sure all the sensors are showing data, MAF, IAT, O2s... if you see a sensor with blank data, that could be a hint to a problem. Just P0650 by itself shouldn't cause a driveability problem, that is only the circuit to the MIL lamp. So that circuit must be shorted to something important, like a sensor. Or the ECM may have gone bad. The service manual will take you through the proper circuit checks, if the MIL circuit checks out, it will say - replace ECM.
Ok. I don't have a service manual but I will go through all the other steps.

I just looked at the plug in for the SCT and al 8 are still in place. 4 on top and 4 on bottom. One each all the way to the side on their own top and bottom. So no problem there. All pins are in the plug. I'm gonna look for the white brown/white wire now. I'm putting the car back to stock and I'll start, get codes and then go back to Magnastock and see the codes.

I gotta get started on my control arms on the Jeep tonight too. lol
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where to get engine cover modified after a Maggie install? 1meanss Cosmetics and Lighting Modification Discussions 5 03-05-2011 09:00 PM
Another Maggie install .... Luvpilot Forced Induction - V8 9 06-20-2010 09:00 PM
maggie install, hose routing suggestions please n2oSS Forced Induction - V8 6 05-31-2010 03:59 PM
DIY : Install catback on 2010 Camaro SS Nine Ball Camaro DIY & HOW-TO instructions & discussions 3 08-09-2009 04:36 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.