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5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions General 5th generation Camaro topics not covered by other subforums.

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Old 01-03-2011, 01:38 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by GTPprix View Post
Sorry I was referring to the post I made outing the new engine (and the fact that the new IMPALA shares the same platform merch codes now) here and reported it saying it might make a good story to the mods then boom it shows up but not even a "hey thanks for the tip" LOL

(http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=147)
I didn't know you were the one that tipped us. But you know your info is always welcome.



As said before, The "LFX" and LLT seem to be the same engine family. It looks like it's just a few tweaks and E85 capability. Which is beyond great news.
No matter what, it looks like this means HP and TQ change for 2012.

I wonder what is in store for the SS......
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:39 PM   #52
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Why is there a SS fascia on a V6? lol
If you're talking about the Homepage picture, it's a picture of an old test mule From back in '08-'09. They all had SS fascias.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:39 PM   #53
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E85 is a joke. The stuff burns at 2/3 the btu's of regular gasoline. The price difference at the pump does NOT make up for the loss of mpg's....My dad and I did a test in his Ford pickup on a long road trip. We ran both types of fuel through the tank and it turned out that regular gas was more economical than E85....Say what you want but I've seen it with my own eyes, E85 is a ploy...
Not to mention the fact that you already paid good tax money to subsidize that Corn Ethanol junk and probably didn't factor that into your calculations, so it is actually worse for your wallet and pollutes the environment more (due to the extra emissions caused by the creation of the product, not the actual consumption of it).
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:43 PM   #54
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I wonder what is in store for the SS......
+1
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:48 PM   #55
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It's all about the alternative fuel credits helping car companies meat their CAFE requirments. The more E85 vehicles produced, provides credits for things like SUV's, V8 Camaros and Corvettes... Even though hardly any of those millions of E85 vehicles will ever use the stuff. I've had 3 E85 vehicles in a row for my daily drivers, never used it once and it is plenty avaliable around me. The price difference would have to be huge to make it worth it.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:52 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
I didn't know you were the one that tipped us. But you know your info is always welcome.



As said before, The "LFX" and LLT seem to be the same engine family. It looks like it's just a few tweaks and E85 capability. Which is beyond great news.
No matter what, it looks like this means HP and TQ change for 2012.

I wonder what is in store for the SS......
I know I'm just messing with you guys
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:06 PM   #57
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Wow, that's a good, random thing to happen lol. I wondering about 1/4 and MPG ratings.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:07 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
I didn't know you were the one that tipped us. But you know your info is always welcome.



As said before, The "LFX" and LLT seem to be the same engine family. It looks like it's just a few tweaks and E85 capability. Which is beyond great news.
No matter what, it looks like this means HP and TQ change for 2012.

I wonder what is in store for the SS......
I'm really hoping they mess around with the L99 to get it closer to the ratings of the LS3.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:19 PM   #59
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I'm really hoping they mess around with the L99 to get it closer to the ratings of the LS3.
I'm guessing there will be a bump for both and hopefully they will be more equally matched.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:46 PM   #60
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i'm also assuming that since the engine will make more powerthe redline will be raised.
let's all hope it doesn't get buzzy like the Nissan V6. More hp is great but if you don't want to zing it because it's so buzzy, it's kind of pointless.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:23 PM   #61
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Not to mention the fact that you already paid good tax money to subsidize that Corn Ethanol junk and probably didn't factor that into your calculations, so it is actually worse for your wallet and pollutes the environment more (due to the extra emissions caused by the creation of the product, not the actual consumption of it).
Plus it inflates corn prices which impacts food prices and the supply in lesser developed countries.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:33 PM   #62
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very nice! a v-6 putting out that kinda power,stock,wow!!...i had a 99'ss that was putting down about 320-330 hp.and i believe that the z-28 in those years was about 300hp.?
umm u realize the ls1's had all the same power of 350hp right? it was just rated lower on paper for insurance purposes and gm didnt want the camaro to have same power rating as the vette.

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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
LF1 has a reputation for being a mediocre engine though. Should be interesting to see if GM has improved that design.
so true, and it boggles my mind as to why. because base mb c300 and is250 and base bmw 3 series are producing far less hp and tq then the LF1 and the mags just love those engines, and say they perform beautifully and have enough power. then when it comes to say cadillac w/ 270 hp 3.0L its under powered. just boggles my mind. how they say 270hp base car is under powered compared to another thats 215hp and say that car has perfect power. just amazes me how magazine critics can contradict themselves.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:54 PM   #63
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Hoping they have found a permanent fix for the timing chain issues.

With 330hp my guess is this will go in to the Silverado also.

And a 2012 Camaro with this motor and the FE4 suspension option would be a blast on the twisties.
What timing chain issues.
You mean the CTS?
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:01 PM   #64
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just amazes me how magazine critics can contradict themselves.
True that...I've seen several cases of magazines contradicting themselves, really makes em look like idiots, either that, or just catoring to whatever the flavor of the month is or whomever pays em more. lol

Anyways...this is exciting/interesting news, but I'm not ready to give up my LLT just yet! I'm going to need to see more official specs and power ratings before I become too jealous of the 2012 engine.

Its not hard to get 330 - 340 HP out of the current LLT engine. That also puts you at around 290-300 TQ by the time you have those mods made.

If you check out the stock engine HP/TQ rating on the LF1, it has impressive HP, but its TQ rating has a long ways to go before its going to move the heavy Camaro any faster than the current LLT. 223TQ for the LF1 while the LLT makes 278 TQ stock. Will upping the displacement to 3.6 get another 50 to 60 TQ out of the engine? Honestly, with no other changes to the car, the "LFX" is going to need 330 -340 and 300+ TQ to really compete with and likely topple the fastest track pack equipped mustang V6s....as sad as it is to say lol.

But hey, jus to be talking power ratings like this for the V6 is still awsome as heck....can only imagine if the car weighed about like the previous gens did!
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:17 PM   #65
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Whoa, whoa, too much E85 bashing here, i wish people would read up on it instead of listening to all of the propaganda surrounding it. Ever notice that anything that has to do with change in America gets a bad rep?

- E85 does not effect the food prices at all, they use feed corn, and they boil what they need off the kernel which (for those of you who have voided your bowls before) is irrelevant to digestion or nutrition anyways, and with the abundance of corn in America its not like we're stealing good cattle feed corn from starving children in Africa, its perfectly harmless.

- E85 does indeed get worse mileage than gasoline, but that is soley because the motor your burning it in is optimized for gasoline, even if it says "E85 compatible" that still just means "compatible" and doesnt mean it was built for that fuel. Motors built for E85 have been proven to get better mileage and horsepower than their gasoline counterparts, it just takes more than an E85 conversion kit to do it.

- E85 would be less expensive if people werent so scared of it, many companies dont want to invest all their money into a product nobody wants, even if most of the reason people dont like it is from propaganda, for them its not about saving the world its about profit, if demand is low they will make lower amounts of it and less interest will promt less development which will keep the prices where they are. If more people were interested they would make more and the price would drop, then development would kick up and they would eliminate the difference between gaslone MPG and E85 MPG.

- E85 has a higher octane so its a better performance fuel anyways. An all-american performance fuel thats better for the environment and potentially cheaper? Sounds like muscle car heaven to me.

- E85 is a renewable resource, which gasoline is not. No matter how much E85 you use there will still be more to be made, keeping the price steady, again supply and demand. Gasoline will continue to rise because it is non-renewable and is becoming less and less scarce.

- Increasing E85 production will put a lot of farmers to work, boosting corn production anyways, and odds are not all of that excess production will go straight to E85 production so in the end foreign countries might even see MORE food coming to them than without E85.

- E85 is a huge economical boost for America, having a self-sustained fuel and a huge boost to farming and agriculture, plus the development and companies that get involved, it would pour money back into the economy, not only would it help your wallet and the environment but it would also help our country as a whole.

- On a personal note, id much rather put a self-sustained American fuel in my American muscle car rather than put oil in it from the middle east. Which in fact have the prices hiked on them cause they know its a necessity for us, not to mention China and all the other countries wanting to buy it as well. Plus all the American oil tycoons who want to raise the price even after the price was raised from the first sellers.


Sorry if i sound a little preachy, and if i seem to have hi-jacked the post, i just get a little ticked when people write things off without looking into it, they just listen to politicians and word of mouth, and im not calling anyone for that but the facts are out there and theyre very interesting especially to us muscle car guys.
Anyways, back to the new Camaro V6 =P
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:38 PM   #66
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- On a personal note, id much rather put a self-sustained American fuel in my American muscle car rather than put oil in it from the middle east. Which in fact have the prices hiked on them cause they know its a necessity for us, not to mention China and all the other countries wanting to buy it as well. Plus all the American oil tycoons who want to raise the price even after the price was raised from the first sellers.
I would love that. You may be right about the motors designed specifically for E85, but I do know for a fact the ones they have out now just don't cut the mustard....I'm all for E85 if they can make it perform as good as gasoline, but that may be a bit too naive. Because when you boil it down, E85 just doesn't have the same energy output...But I agree with your goal, a self-sustained American fuel sounds fantastic....
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:49 PM   #67
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Hmm if E85 is made from corn like moonshine can ya drive your car on it during the day and get drunk on it at nite? haha.
A lot of great changes comming up for the camaro, seems like it is back to stay.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:32 PM   #68
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so true, and it boggles my mind as to why. because base mb c300 and is250 and base bmw 3 series are producing far less hp and tq then the LF1 and the mags just love those engines, and say they perform beautifully and have enough power. then when it comes to say cadillac w/ 270 hp 3.0L its under powered. just boggles my mind. how they say 270hp base car is under powered compared to another thats 215hp and say that car has perfect power. just amazes me how magazine critics can contradict themselves.
The LF1 reportedly suffers from a lack of low-end torque. It's fine for most people who use the engine for commuting, but folks who are used to a torque-y performance car find that the engine revs too high before reaching peak torque, which kills fuel economy. In fact, the 3.0L and more powerful 3.6L in the CTS achieve the exact same fuel economy ratings.

Holden supposedly came up with a fix for it but it doesn't meet EPA guidelines or something.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:13 PM   #69
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Hmm if E85 is made from corn like moonshine can ya drive your car on it during the day and get drunk on it at nite? haha.
A lot of great changes comming up for the camaro, seems like it is back to stay.
I have no idea, but it might be worth looking into! lmao
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:17 PM   #70
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I would love that. You may be right about the motors designed specifically for E85, but I do know for a fact the ones they have out now just don't cut the mustard....I'm all for E85 if they can make it perform as good as gasoline, but that may be a bit too naive. Because when you boil it down, E85 just doesn't have the same energy output...But I agree with your goal, a self-sustained American fuel sounds fantastic....
Yeah i agree, the whole "E85 conversion" idea isnt amazing cause these motors are built for gasoline and will never run Ethanol as well because of that, id love to see a motor built specificly for E85 from GM, itd go a long way in proving or disproving a lot of the rumors
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:23 PM   #71
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Good gawd these threads are so full of economic fallacies it's almost ridiculous.

BTW, I do not think TQ will be that big of an issue. E.g., the BMW M3 keeps up with the 2011 Mustang GT despite a 100 TQ disadvantage.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:26 PM   #72
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What timing chain issues.
You mean the CTS?
CTS, Camaro, Traverse, Acadia, Outlook, Enclave...the latest of the 3.6 family (07-up?) has been troubled with timing chains stretching.
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we're certainly looking at it -- but right now, the emphasis MUST be on getting the Camaro V6 and SS out -- and having it exceed your expectations....

Once that's done....................
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:45 PM   #73
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that's sweet
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:00 PM   #74
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Good gawd these threads are so full of economic fallacies it's almost ridiculous.

BTW, I do not think TQ will be that big of an issue. E.g., the BMW M3 keeps up with the 2011 Mustang GT despite a 100 TQ disadvantage.
Torque will be an issue if the car still weighs as it does now. It would be a mistake in my opinion to go a lower torque, higher horsepower engine (not saying thats what it would be of course....just sayin). Lack or torque would have to be made up for with lower gearing, or loss of weight, or some other factor.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:10 PM   #75
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Torque will be an issue if the car still weighs as it does now. It would be a mistake in my opinion to go a lower torque, higher horsepower engine (not saying thats what it would be of course....just sayin). Lack or torque would have to be made up for with lower gearing, or loss of weight, or some other factor.
Exactly. The loss of TQ isn't the end of a relatively fast V6 Camaro as some make it out to be here.
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