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Old 01-06-2011, 10:40 AM   #1
Zabo
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Unhappy It's F-Body Withdrawl! (Undercoating!)

Left my Birdie in the care of the guys at Z-One Auto in Toledo to get her undercoated, and as such I've been stuck with the Monte Carlo today. I miss my third pedal.

Nice thing about those guys is that they are very personable, not pushy in the slightest, and are exclusively car guys that can talk on a level with you that I found other places couldn't. Even got them to spray the door skins for 30 a pop since most of the 4th gens are either fiberglass or rubberized plastic as far as fascias, trim, fenders..

So I'm looking at 350 out the door on the car.. anyone else ever get their car undercoated?
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:52 PM   #2
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Yea our 73 is ziebarted. Really helped the car. Only amount of rust we had was surface rust on the deck lid. Other than ours was basically perfect.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:01 PM   #3
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Same here. It was basic surface oxidation that they just scrubbed off and then sealed the car up. Ended up being 319 out the door so at least it was cheaper than expected. Now I just have to wait for the smell and excess spray that got on the exhaust to burn off.. :/

Nice of them to give her a bath too after the work was done.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:08 AM   #4
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It is my understanding that most modern cars do not benefit from undercoating. I do not think I have ever seen a rusty 4th gen.

I had three of them. I do like.

It seems like with that MPH in your sig you can be low 13s easy. I want to start tracking my 5th gen. But will I break my axles? I am such a chicken. I broke a couple of 4th gen 10 bolts. Now I am gun shy.
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
It is my understanding that most modern cars do not benefit from undercoating. I do not think I have ever seen a rusty 4th gen.

I had three of them. I do like.

It seems like with that MPH in your sig you can be low 13s easy. I want to start tracking my 5th gen. But will I break my axles? I am such a chicken. I broke a couple of 4th gen 10 bolts. Now I am gun shy.
They do, especially in the rear. I've seen 4th gens that rust out at the rockers, and the rear quarters. Worse yet they always seem to rust out in the floor pans first before you see it elsewhere. Mine only has 36K but it had rust just from sitting on the floors. Wasn't bad (surface), but you could see the piss poor coverage under the car from the factory left it open to start oxidizing pretty quickly.

And yes, I know I could have hit 13s but I ran out of runs and it was my first time driving anything on a true strip with a tree. I had something ridiculously stupid in the neighborhood of a .8 reaction time. I'll have to dig out my slips.

Only downside of undercoating the car is that I still shell out some money when I redo the rear, driveshaft and suspension; they weren't touched since they were stock. Also, it was so nice of them to get a bit of overspray on the exhaust; gonna have noxious fumes for the next month or so if I Stabil it now, or a week or so if I can drive it.
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Last edited by Zabo; 01-09-2011 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Mistake
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
I broke a couple of 4th gen 10 bolts. Now I am gun shy.
Try a Moser (or equivalent) 12-bolt...considerably lighter, and less power-robbing, than a 9" or Dana 60. Of course, big sticky slicks and 6000 rpm launches will have you scrambling for the stoutest rear money can buy...

On topic...if your car has already seen a winter or two, oiling may be a better option. That way, you're not sealing in an existing/starting "problem"...
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:28 PM   #7
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Winter Preservation tips cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Try a Moser (or equivalent) 12-bolt...considerably lighter, and less power-robbing, than a 9" or Dana 60. Of course, big sticky slicks and 6000 rpm launches will have you scrambling for the stoutest rear money can buy...

On topic...if your car has already seen a winter or two, oiling may be a better option. That way, you're not sealing in an existing/starting "problem"...
Oiling IE Mineral oil misted into the plug holes and the intake?

Yeah, I'm looking at Stabil and the Stabil oil for the engine. Not quite ready to put her on blocks just yet.

It's a standard for Aviation to use a mineral type oil as a preservative since many large operations will have several spare engines on hand to be pulled and put in place of a blown/timed out engine. Spray everything that can move, give the crank a few turns to coat everything and box 'er up.
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabo View Post
They do, especially in the rear. I've seen plenty of rusty 4th gens that rust out at the bottoms of the door skins, the rockers, and the rear quarters. Worse yet they always seem to rust out in the floor pans first before you see it elsewhere. Mine only has 36K but it had rust just from sitting on the floors. Wasn't bad (surface), but you could see the piss poor coverage under the car from the factory left it open to start oxidizing pretty quickly.
There's no easy way to say this but you put your credibility on the line when you claim to have seen 4th gens with rusted out door skins. Why would you make up something so impossible? (Yes, it is impossible).
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:13 PM   #9
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Oiling IE Mineral oil misted into the plug holes and the intake?
While "misting" can be good for long-term engine protection, I was actually referring to a practise common in many areas where the underside of a vehicle is sprayed with a heavy oil instead of "Ziebart"-style "rustproofing".

"Oiling" requires reapplication each year (generally, most do it in the Fall), is kinda messy for a day or two after (possible dripping) but costs a fraction of the price of "permanent" rust inhibitors like Ziebart. And it is preferred, generally, for previously-driven vehicles as it will not "seal" in an already festering rust problem that may continue undetected under the sealer...

Oiling also doesn't add nearly as much weight to the vehicle as "permanent rustproofing" will...

Oiling is BIG business in certain "rust-belt" areas. In fact, many car dealers now offer it as a substitute for "permanent" sealers. It's annual reapplication generally means continuous repeat business...
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabo View Post
Credibility? Well excuse me..

Then the door skins on the '96 3.4l Firebird I saw at a used lot weren't on a Firebird.. or from a Firebird? Even though the car was obviously a 1996 Firebird.

Rockers and the skins were pretty well changed from white to the familiar orange and bubbling along the bottom. Rear quarters were also bubbling around the bumper cover.

Sorry for not getting pics; the thing had something in the neighborhood of 230K miles on it and was a royal POS. Anything can rust given time and lethargy.

EXCUSE YOU for what?

The Door skins you say you saw on a '96 firebird were one of the following:

a) Not On a Firebird
b) Not OEM doors (or doors from another vehicle transplanted to a Firebird)
c) Not Rusty or Corroded.

Which one is it?

The reason your credibility is on the line is simple... 4th Gen F-Bodies were ALL manufactured with Composite (PLASTIC) DOORS.

Did you forget that plastic does not rust?

Look it up and then tell me how your claim is possible!!!! Since you got this completely WRONG, your eyewitness accounts of other 4th Gen rust are probably as equally wrong as well.

Thanks for playing!
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:50 PM   #11
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@LOWDOWN

As for the Oiling process, I assume it's almost like a rubbery tar substance. If that were the case then yes I do believe they Oiled rather than spray a rust inhibitor. There is a heavy petroleum product smell coming off of the coating so it does make sense. The car was not Ziebarted though. Z-One ceased to be a Ziebart franchisee after the Ziebart system was shown to be flawed.

This coating will have to be inspected yearly and reapplied as needed. These were their instructions. They include a warranty system too in case the coating has any sort of failure.

@Captain Awesome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
The reason your credibility is on the line is simple... 4th Gen F-Bodies were ALL manufactured with Composite (PLASTIC) DOORS.

Look it up and then tell me how your claim is possible!!!! Since you got this completely WRONG, your eyewitness accounts of other 4th Gen rust are probably as equally wrong as well.
Excuse me for being offended by your tone in 'clarifying' a mistake of mine.

After careful inspection and also analyzing of my billing sheet.

You are CORRECT Captain Awesome.

You have my apologies. It seems the only metal on the car would be those rocker panels and rear quarters. Essentially the primary frame of the car. It is actually astounding how much SMC/Rubberized Plastic, and composite materials are in this car. I had assumed from the feel and acoustic qualities of the actual door skin that I was dealing with a metal shell that served as a monocoque system when in fact it was the SMC system used in the plastic fantastic Corvette.

I DID NOT KNOW THIS! I have never had a chance to study a 4th gen up close enough to learn these things.

So in the end I may have been looking at simple staining of the paint due to the car being.. white? Have you seen how easy iron in water can stain a white car? I have, and you'd swear there was rust involved.

The doors were not coated as it seemed even the shop found out about the SMC and did not coat it.

Original price plus shop fees and taxes only included the underbody. The door skins were not sprayed.
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Last edited by Zabo; 01-09-2011 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Recanting Lock request
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