Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
tandtperformance.com
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis

Suspension / Brakes / Chassis All suspension, brakes and chassis discussions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-10-2011, 08:58 AM   #1
Larz29
 
Larz29's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro ss LS3 cyber grey
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison,wi
Posts: 226
Rear sway bar

I ordered a rear sway bar for my car that is adjustable between 80/120/170 % stiffer than stock to address the understeer issue. I did not get the front bar because I had a bad expeirence with my mustang as a daily driver with a very stiff front sway bar.

Will I notice much of a difference with just the rear sway bar? What % stiffness should I have the new rear bar set at with the stock front sway bar to work in harmony?
Larz29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 10:29 AM   #2
AdamCzap
 
AdamCzap's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 TT SS / '07 Escalade
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Detroit Area
Posts: 459
Yes you will notice a difference. I did mine about a month ago and did the rear one by itself at first, so I know what you will experience with only the rear. It's still a HUGE improvement! I bought the Pfadt adjustable bars. Mine is set to the stiffest setting possible. Definitely noticeable difference in cornering with just the rear. In fact, I don't really even know if I could distinguish a difference after I added the front bar! I haven't done any real testing though.
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------
L99 Hellion Twin Turbo @ 7lbs 545rwhp, 560rwtq
Noweeds.net diverters
Pfadt solid subframe mounts, diff bushings, sways, trailing arms
Walsh Motor Sports tune
11.63 1/4 @ 123.5mph 1.87 60' on stock rubber
www.adamczap.com
-----------------------------------------------------
AdamCzap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 10:48 AM   #3
Fishdadddy

 
Fishdadddy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS ; 1970 Firebird Formula
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Palm Beach
Posts: 1,267
Fishdadddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 10:53 AM   #4
rtcat600man
having FUN now 13.66@101
 
rtcat600man's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT IOM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Clarkston, Michigan
Posts: 7,713
+ 1

I added front and rear sway bars (adjustable) 1 day before putting my Camaro into winter storage. Only did a 30 minute test drive. Waiting for the end of the salt season to do some real testing.
__________________
rtcat600man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 10:54 AM   #5
JDP Tyler

 
JDP Tyler's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 6,403
Larz29. Give us a call. We can help you out.
JDP Tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 12:55 PM   #6
BMR guy


 
BMR guy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1SS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,097
Use the 80 or 120 setting if you are just doing the rear bar. This will effectively neutralize the understeer. The difference is very noticeable...
BMR guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 05:28 PM   #7
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamCzap View Post
Yes you will notice a difference. I did mine about a month ago and did the rear one by itself at first, so I know what you will experience with only the rear. It's still a HUGE improvement! I bought the Pfadt adjustable bars. Mine is set to the stiffest setting possible. Definitely noticeable difference in cornering with just the rear. In fact, I don't really even know if I could distinguish a difference after I added the front bar! I haven't done any real testing though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR guy View Post
Use the 80 or 120 setting if you are just doing the rear bar. This will effectively neutralize the understeer. The difference is very noticeable...
These two posts pretty well sum it up.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 05:59 PM   #8
Scott@Bjorn3D


 
Scott@Bjorn3D's Avatar
 
Drives: Kami, 2013 2SS LS3 Luvin
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Eufaula, Alabama
Posts: 6,015
Send a message via MSN to Scott@Bjorn3D
Chase do you sell just a rear bar?
__________________
2013 2SS, GM Strut Tower Brace, CAI Intake Black, VMAX TB, Elite Catch Can, Hotchkis Chassis Brace, Hurst Shifter, 3.91 1LE Complete Rear End, NPP, 1LE Track Pack,Factory Reproductions Style 41 ZL1 Fitment Wheels 10" on all 4 corners
Scott@Bjorn3D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 06:54 PM   #9
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D View Post
Chase do you sell just a rear bar?
Yes sir, we have Pfadt and BMR rear sway bars.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 07:11 PM   #10
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larz29 View Post
I ordered a rear sway bar for my car that is adjustable between 80/120/170 % stiffer than stock to address the understeer issue. I did not get the front bar because I had a bad expeirence with my mustang as a daily driver with a very stiff front sway bar.

Will I notice much of a difference with just the rear sway bar? What % stiffness should I have the new rear bar set at with the stock front sway bar to work in harmony?
The setting will depend on the rear bar diameter and strength. The larger the bar, the thicker the wall in a hollow bar the stronger it will be. If you had purchased Pedders rear 27mm solid bar I would suggest the softest setting as it is such a strong bar. A 27mm standard wall hollow bar you could easily go to the second strongest setting. You get the idea.

Start on the softest setting and get to know how your car responds. You can work your way up from there. Pay attention to the endlink nuts. They lose their quench, the resistance to coming loose, as you take them on and off. You can use LocTite instead of new nuts, but use it sparingly or you may find you can't get them off.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 09:10 PM   #11
axis
Search Ninja
 
axis's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ark
Posts: 7,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamCzap View Post
Yes you will notice a difference. I did mine about a month ago and did the rear one by itself at first, so I know what you will experience with only the rear. It's still a HUGE improvement! I bought the Pfadt adjustable bars. Mine is set to the stiffest setting possible. Definitely noticeable difference in cornering with just the rear. In fact, I don't really even know if I could distinguish a difference after I added the front bar! I haven't done any real testing though.
+1

I did my rear first as well and could tell a huge difference. I set mine to the middle hole and haven't felt the need to change it. I put the front on a few days later and could tell that it improved a little but near as much as the rear.
__________________
2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Halltech CF 102 fed
GPI modded intake manifold
Bo (knows) White ported TB
Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT
Pfadted (springs/sways)
Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI

I once parallel parked a train.
axis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 06:51 AM   #12
Larz29
 
Larz29's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro ss LS3 cyber grey
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison,wi
Posts: 226
Thanks for all the wonderful feedback guys! I can't wait until Winter is over which I'm sure a lot of you agree!
Larz29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 10:47 AM   #13
Jay_LHD3

 
Jay_LHD3's Avatar
 
Drives: CGM 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SW Georgia
Posts: 1,944
Awesome thread!

I decided a long time ago to just go with the Pfadt Rear Balance Bar, which I will be buying in a few months. After passing on the awesome deals going on during SEMA, I started doubting my decision for not getting the Springs and Sways.

This thread reassures me that I made the right decision for my daily driver and in the process saved a couple hundred dollars.



I’m assuming that the Rear Balance Bar is the same as the Rear Sway Bar, just not adjustable due to it already being preset to perform best with the stock front sway bar.

Balance Bar
Name:  img1.jpg
Views: 665
Size:  14.9 KB

Rear Sway Bar
Name:  img2.jpg
Views: 659
Size:  6.2 KB
__________________

Last edited by Jay_LHD3; 01-12-2011 at 11:29 AM.
Jay_LHD3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 11:01 AM   #14
Fishdadddy

 
Fishdadddy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS ; 1970 Firebird Formula
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Palm Beach
Posts: 1,267
Fishdadddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 07:03 PM   #15
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaber99 View Post
I’m assuming that the Rear Balance Bar is the same as the Rear Sway Bar, just not adjustable due to it already being preset to perform best with the stock front sway bar.

Balance Bar
Attachment 197870

Rear Sway Bar
Attachment 197871
Correct.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 07:45 PM   #16
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaber99 View Post
I’m assuming that the Rear Balance Bar is the same as the Rear Sway Bar, just not adjustable due to it already being preset to perform best with the stock front sway bar.
If your Camaro is bone stock without any modifications a fixed position bar will be acceptable. But what do you do if you change your wheel and tire package or install lowering coils, or coilovers or... The more adjustability you build into your 5th Gen modifications the greater value they will provide to you over the years.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 08:33 PM   #17
Fishdadddy

 
Fishdadddy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS ; 1970 Firebird Formula
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Palm Beach
Posts: 1,267
Hey Pete, finally getting ready to install my Xa coilovers and stumbled onto this thread. What do you think about just changing the rear bar and end links only? And which Pedders bar would you recommend?
Fishdadddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 09:50 PM   #18
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishdadddy View Post
Hey Pete, finally getting ready to install my Xa coilovers and stumbled onto this thread. What do you think about just changing the rear bar and end links only? And which Pedders bar would you recommend?
We have three distinct sway bar solutions that suit the driving needs of distinct drivers.

The first, which I don't suggest for you, is a single front bar. It is the exact opposite of a balance bar. A balance bar is used to reduce understeer and make a vehicle more neutral or balanced. A balance bar is well suited to the driver looking for improved cornering. The Camaro is a unique beast. In box stock trim it sticks in the corners, even though there is significant lean and roll. A large portion of Camaro drivers never encounter understeer. They are not looking to change the front to rear sway bar bias or reduce understeer. They just want less lean and roll at moderate driving speeds. For them a single front Pedders 27mm bar will work well. To be clear, if pushed to passed say 8/10s there will be more understeer, but the Solution A bar is intended only to improve the driving experience under 7 or 8/10s and it does that well.

For the more demanding driver we believe a front and rear bar solution are in order. The OE bars are not only modest in strength, but in ratio.



Pedders Solution B bars are about double the strength of the OE bars with a bias towards oversteer. Looking at the chart you can see that several brands make a stronger front bar than Pedders while matching it to a rear bar that is significantly weaker. That is no different than Pedders solution A. Understeer will increase with the installation of aftermarket bars where the front bar is significantly stronger than the rear. Pedders Solution B bars offer improvement under all driving conditions.

Then there is my personal bias to Solution C sway bars. The front is a 27mm and the rear is a 32mm. There is one brand of bars that offers a stronger oversteer bias compared to Pedders, but their bars are about 60% the strength of Pedders bars. Solution C does create a bias to oversteer in high speed cornering. That can be dangerous to drivers that are unaccustomed to oversteer. When a vehicle is in understeer, decelerating or braking will improve the situation. When a vehicle is in oversteer, decelerating or braking will make the situation worse. A driver must understand how to manage oversteer and maintain throttle position or increase throttle to drive through it.

OEMs design in understeer to protect the driver from their driving. Drivers are accustomed to understeer and conditioned to slow down or brake when sliding. That is why we have cautions all over Solution C. Having said that hands down we feel the best set of bars are Pedders Solution C.

All Pedders 5th Gen bars are adjustable. All Pedders 5th Gen bars include high efficiency endlinks that deliver spherical like performance with OE quiet operation.

Back to your original question Mr. Fishdaddy. To pair up with your Xa coilovers you should choose Solution B bars which are well suited to daily driving and track use. If you want a more aggressive setup with a clear bias to oversteer then Solution C is for you.

If you would like similar to Solution C results on a budget, a Pedders 27mm rear bar used with the OE front will have a strong bias to oversteer. You can look over the chart and see why.

Thank you for asking and thank you for choosing Pedders for your 5th Gen. We appreciate your business. Thank you for choosing Pedders.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 09:05 AM   #19
Fishdadddy

 
Fishdadddy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS ; 1970 Firebird Formula
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Palm Beach
Posts: 1,267
Wow thats a lot of info to process. But, it sounds like you are saying that I would be happiest with a set of solution B front and rear bars. But if I just want to change out the rear only with a 27mm bar I will achieve similar results?
Fishdadddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 09:51 AM   #20
Larz29
 
Larz29's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro ss LS3 cyber grey
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison,wi
Posts: 226
So Justice Pete, if I just want to improve my overall handling and cornering, what bar would you recommend? Keep in mind I don't track my car, just enjoy some spirited driving when it's safe. What is the price?
Larz29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:36 AM   #21
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishdadddy View Post
Wow thats a lot of info to process. But, it sounds like you are saying that I would be happiest with a set of solution B front and rear bars. But if I just want to change out the rear only with a 27mm bar I will achieve similar results?
The rear bar will correct understeer, possibly too much for your skill and pucker level. The worst case scenario is you Camaro is transformed from ready to plow the north forty to Tokyo Drift ready. So m uch of the result is dependent on how you drive. If you find it too loose we just add the front bar. So start small with the rear 27mm and move up to the front if you feel you need it.

I checked the catalog and did not find pricing for a single rear bar with our spherical like endlinks. I made an executive decision. A single rear 27mm bar with endlinks will be priced just under $300. Call the office 248.522.8021 and ask for Jacie.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:42 AM   #22
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larz29 View Post
So Justice Pete, if I just want to improve my overall handling and cornering, what bar would you recommend? Keep in mind I don't track my car, just enjoy some spirited driving when it's safe. What is the price?
Solution B. Your car will be well controlled with velocity indduced oversteer in cornvers. You'll need to work your way up in corner sspeeds, buut it will be there. Take them slower and there will be enough understeer to keep you in your comfort zone. The overall strength of the bars will settle the 5th Gen down more than you can imagine. Do to the outstanding suspension design from Chevrolet, your will quality will remian excellant.

Solution B is priced just over $600 and includes a set of four spherical like performqance endlinks making them a bargain in the market.. You can find the exact price or order on line with the catalog link in my signature.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:48 AM   #23
Fishdadddy

 
Fishdadddy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS ; 1970 Firebird Formula
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Palm Beach
Posts: 1,267
Awesome!!

Thanks Pete. I'll get ahold of Jackie.
Fishdadddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 05:41 PM   #24
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishdadddy View Post
Awesome!!

Thanks Pete. I'll get ahold of Jackie.
Thank You!
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 07:23 PM   #25
Jay_LHD3

 
Jay_LHD3's Avatar
 
Drives: CGM 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SW Georgia
Posts: 1,944
This thread just keeps getting better. Thanks for all the great info Pete!
__________________
Jay_LHD3 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hotchkis versus Pfadt Sway Bars Avalnch Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 77 10-08-2010 10:37 AM
Setting up an IRS/Drivetrain for Drag Racing Kyle2k Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 44 06-05-2010 09:17 PM
Hotchkis Front and Rear Sway Bar Kits Ethan@HigherPower Suspension / Chassis / Brakes 0 01-20-2010 08:28 PM
Suspension guys out there - lets talk wheel hop Crowley Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 14 10-09-2009 12:06 AM
Pfadt Race Engineering Balance Sway Bar package PfadtRacing Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack 0 08-17-2009 01:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.