Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Vitesse Motorsports
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-28-2011, 11:21 AM   #151
stand-al0ne
Rev Couture
 
stand-al0ne's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 LS Camaro & 2013 Rav4 Ltd
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jamlando, FL
Posts: 1,093
wheel color with the body color come together nicely, i forgot to mention that until now
__________________
EBC Brakes| DOT 4|Bigworm| SickSpeed| BMR | IPF | Vararam| MRT |MGW | Nitto | Rx |
Iggee |ZL-1 Sways| Hurst | Apex Racing|Past: Srt-4| 6.0L GTO- RIP | '98 Integra

stand-al0ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 07:14 PM   #152
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
Well, I made it to Homestead on Sunday and I did get the car out for a few laps. The good news is:

1) The tires worked very well!
2) The suspension was brilliant!
3) the instructor loved the sound of the engine... and the handling!
4) I ran down (and nearly over) a couple doctors playing with their Porches!

The bad news was that I had/have a brake issue. After only 2-3 laps, as I began to press the brake markers a bit deeper, the car developed a shudder in the front wheels!

I can't find any clear evidence of what the problem is ATM. I've inspected (and bleed) the brakes to no avail. At this point, I suspect there is an issue with material transfer from the OE pads to the rotors and the new pads don't like that.

Guess I'll get in touch with EBC to see what they have to say...

In the mean time, I'll clean the rotors and prep the pads again and bed them. Then I'll test them again.

Since my sessions were so short, My photographer didn't get any good shots but, here's what he did get:







The track photographer got a couple of shots so, when he posts them, I'll grab those and put them up.

I do have some video to edit and upload so, check back later...
__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 07:27 PM   #153
KMPrenger


 
KMPrenger's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 ABM LT/RS, 06 Chevy Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
Posts: 9,626
Sweet! Looking forward to more! Car looks great.

Man I'd love to drive your car just to feel the handling difference, but that is too bad about the brakes! Rotors weren't possibly overheating and warping were they?
__________________
IPF Tune, Custom Magnaflow Exhaust, Vararam intake, MACE Ported Manifold, RX Ported TB, "Black Ice" manifold insulator, Elite Catch Can, ZL1 repro wheels, ZL1 Springs, DRL Harness, Front GM GFX, Heritage grill, Street Scene lower grill, NLP Spoiler, ZL1 rockers and much more!
KMPrenger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 07:31 PM   #154
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Sweet! Looking forward to more! Car looks great.

Man I'd love to drive your car just to feel the handling difference, but that is too bad about the brakes! Rotors weren't possibly overheating and warping were they?
I don't think so. I pulled off right after the shudder got bad in turn 10 (exit to the pits is right after that) and was parked in the first garage at the exit. As soon as I got out of the car, I used my pyrometer on the rotors and the fronts were 250F with the rears at 275. I checked a couple other cars in my garage after they came back from their sessions and most read 575-625F. My temp strip on the calipers didn't even register the first range (250F)!
__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 08:06 PM   #155
mikeSS


 
mikeSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 7,335
ok so what does your car compare to now on a track.
__________________

2010 camaro cammed- sold
2013 E92 V8 M3 DCT ZCP
C7 pending order
mikeSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 08:26 PM   #156
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauwulf View Post
I don't think so. I pulled off right after the shudder got bad in turn 10 (exit to the pits is right after that) and was parked in the first garage at the exit. As soon as I got out of the car, I used my pyrometer on the rotors and the fronts were 250F with the rears at 275. I checked a couple other cars in my garage after they came back from their sessions and most read 575-625F. My temp strip on the calipers didn't even register the first range (250F)!
Glad you got to run and it sounds like you are almost there. If I had to guess, I think you are right about the metal transfer. I'm sure you'll get it figured out.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 08:29 PM   #157
Erik@Torq
 
Erik@Torq's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 SS + '04 Z16 Z06 S/C
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Miramar, FL
Posts: 1,492
Send a message via MSN to Erik@Torq
Glad you got the car on track finally! Have any chance to look at laptimes?

Remind me, what pads and rotors are you running again? EBC on both?

/Erik
Erik@Torq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 09:39 PM   #158
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeSS View Post
ok so what does your car compare to now on a track.
Hard to tell yet. I only got up to about 70% before the brakes crapped out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
Glad you got to run and it sounds like you are almost there. If I had to guess, I think you are right about the metal transfer. I'm sure you'll get it figured out.
Yea, I'll get it figured out in the next few days.

[QUOTE=Erik@Torq;2900250]Glad you got the car on track finally! Have any chance to look at laptimes?

I never got a clean lap in. With the brake problem, I barely got the tires warmed up. Just an educated guess, I'd say 1:56-57s if everything was working right.... maybe a bit better without the instructor in the car.

Remind me, what pads and rotors are you running again? EBC on both?

EBC Blue NDX on the front only... OEs on the rear. Rotors are fleabay from this guy...

http://tinyurl.com/5ubum3f
__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 09:44 PM   #159
Erik@Torq
 
Erik@Torq's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 SS + '04 Z16 Z06 S/C
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Miramar, FL
Posts: 1,492
Send a message via MSN to Erik@Torq
Sweet! As I am sure you are well aware of, proper bedding process is extremely important for maximum braking performance so that could be an issue. Since your temps were so low there could actually be to much brake cooling for those pads, and they are simply not reaching their operation temperature. It's not common, but it happens and I have no experience with that specific compound (have run green, yellow and red before) so I can't really give a better answer.

Let me know if you need any assistance with anything buddy

/Erik
Erik@Torq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 10:11 PM   #160
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik@Torq View Post
Sweet! As I am sure you are well aware of, proper bedding process is extremely important for maximum braking performance so that could be an issue. Since your temps were so low there could actually be to much brake cooling for those pads, and they are simply not reaching their operation temperature. It's not common, but it happens and I have no experience with that specific compound (have run green, yellow and red before) so I can't really give a better answer.

Let me know if you need any assistance with anything buddy

/Erik
Thanks M8! I did the procedure included with the pads. These pads are supposed to be street/race pads. I had them in for about 2 weeks and they performed just a hair below the OEs on the street. Up to the point they started to shudder, they had good initial bite, easy to modulate and pretty strong. The only fault I could tell, other than the big problem, was that the release was a tad slow.

After I returned to the pits and took the temps, I jacked the car and spun each wheel. They both rotated smoothly with no extra drag or "tight" spots. Rotors look smooth and slightly blued. On the way home and while driving today, no issues at all.

I did another "close visual" inspection of the rotors and no cracks or inconsistent surface observed.

I think I'll call the EBC US rep tomorrow and see what he says....
__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 10:48 PM   #161
Lycanine
 
Lycanine's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 IBM Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 486
Sorry to hear about the brakes! I was excited to see what your car could do You said you'd be posting a video soon right?
__________________
Lycanine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 05:48 AM   #162
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
OK, here's some video for you guys... Remember, this is a novice group so, the instructor had us hold it to 60% max for the first session. First lap is just to warm the tires up. It was just starting to get fun too!



__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 03:29 PM   #163
Lycanine
 
Lycanine's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 IBM Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 486
Just watched the videos...that was awesome when you ran up on the porsche Great driving, can't wait to see a 100% video!
__________________
Lycanine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 05:38 PM   #164
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
Thanks man! Me too!
__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 02:21 PM   #165
stand-al0ne
Rev Couture
 
stand-al0ne's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 LS Camaro & 2013 Rav4 Ltd
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jamlando, FL
Posts: 1,093
very cool pics! I love following this thread!

Pads not agreeing with the rotors sounds like the issue. I doubt a street/track pad would not be able to get up to operating temps , but then again I never heard of the blues before and I have only ever used the greens...

I now have to wait until I get home to watch the vids bc I can't pull them up at the office :/
__________________
EBC Brakes| DOT 4|Bigworm| SickSpeed| BMR | IPF | Vararam| MRT |MGW | Nitto | Rx |
Iggee |ZL-1 Sways| Hurst | Apex Racing|Past: Srt-4| 6.0L GTO- RIP | '98 Integra

stand-al0ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 05:39 PM   #166
mikey45
 
mikey45's Avatar
 
Drives: 13 Summit white ZL1
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Houston Tx
Posts: 26
Beauwulf, where did you find a flange to connect the hose to the calipers? the First pic of the thread looks like they are all the intake side and made of plastic and the pic of your completed rotor/dust plate looks to be metal.

I recently ran a hpde in houston tx and man did my rotors heat up. After about 8 sessions over the course of 2 days my brakes were fried (as well as my tires). I saw a thread by John M and how he ran his ducts. They are both DIY's and I wanted to see which would be easier.

Bad Ace set up BTW.
mikey45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2011, 07:40 PM   #167
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey45 View Post
Beauwulf, where did you find a flange to connect the hose to the calipers? the First pic of the thread looks like they are all the intake side and made of plastic and the pic of your completed rotor/dust plate looks to be metal.

I recently ran a hpde in houston tx and man did my rotors heat up. After about 8 sessions over the course of 2 days my brakes were fried (as well as my tires). I saw a thread by John M and how he ran his ducts. They are both DIY's and I wanted to see which would be easier.

Bad Ace set up BTW.
My friend with the Evo gave them to me. I'll see if he remembers were to get them from. They are aluminum.
__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 06:27 PM   #168
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
I had a chance to give the brakes a good inspection and refreshed the pads and rotors to re-bed them. I checked the runout on the rotors and found that to be good at .002".

When I resurfaced the pads, I think I found the problem with the shudder at Homestead. There was an area of packed residue right in the center of the each pad. It looked exactly like sandpaper looks when it gets "loaded up"! I believe it was from the dust of the OE pads that was still on the discs when I installed the EBC pads.

The "Blue NDXs" come with a special process to help speed up the bedding process. They are "scorched" in an oven at the factory and your supposed to be able to bed them in at the track with just a few laps going progressively harder with your braking. The process leaves the surface very porous and it looked like that allowed the surface to "pick up" some of the leftover dust from the OE pads. There was an area right in the center of each pad that was anywhere from dime size up to quarter size on the LH outer pad!

I sanded the pads and did a though cleaning of the rotors before assembling the brakes and went out and re-bedded the pads. They feel fine ATM but I need to get out of town on my favorite back road and work some heat into the rotors to really check them out.

I'll update once more when I get a chance to test them again.

__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 10:30 PM   #169
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
I got a few photos from the track photographer at Homestead.











__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 11:07 PM   #170
Lycanine
 
Lycanine's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 IBM Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauwulf View Post
I got a few photos from the track photographer at Homestead.












New video soon?
__________________
Lycanine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 05:22 AM   #171
rtcat600man
having FUN now 13.66@101
 
rtcat600man's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT IOM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Clarkston, Michigan
Posts: 8,130
Beauwulf, those photos are AWESOME. Thanks for sharing.
__________________
rtcat600man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 08:17 AM   #172
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,763
Best pics yet!
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 07:54 PM   #173
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
I've been in contact with EBC regarding the brake problem and I'm posting the E-mail traffic up to this point. I invited the correspondent, James Hallett to reply to this thread so, we'll see what they have to say...

Name=Terry Barker
> Email Address:=beauwulf@bellsouth.net
> country=United States
> Comments:=I am using the Blue NDX compound on my 2010 Camaro and, at a
> recent track day at Homestead Fl, had an issue with a "shudder" under
> braking.
> I'm using an inexpensive set of drilled slotted rotors that were used with
> the OEM pads for several hundred miles before installing the blues.
>
> I installed the pads a couple of weeks before and used the bedding procedure
> provided. I had about 600 miles on them when I went to the track.
>
> At the track, on my first hot lap, I got a progressively worse shudder in
> the front brakes to the point that I had to pull off. When I got back to the
> pits, I immediately used a digital temp gauge and had only 250F on the
> rotors. I jacked the car and spun the wheels and had no extra drag or tight
> spots on either side. So, we bleed the brakes and tried again with the same
> result on the next session.
>
> Here's a link to the video of my runs
>
>

>
> Got any ideas?

>

------ Forwarded Message
> From: Terry Barker <beaugator@bellsouth.net>
> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:08:35 -0500
> To: Natalie Brown <studio@ebcbrakes.com>
> Subject: Contact Us

James Hallett - EBC Brakes wrote:

> Hi Terry,
>
> Apologies for the late reply.
>
> I am copying our Research and Development lab on this, for any comments they
> may have.
>
> We will get back to you soon.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> James
>
> With Kind Regards
> James Hallett
> Vice President
> On behalf of EBC Brakes USA Inc.



Hi James,

Thanks for the response. I believe I have discovered the problem now. Here's a link to my "build" thread on Camaro5.com that explains what I found.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=168

If you look at the photo in this post, you can see an area in the center of the pad that appears to be very porous (pre installation). This was one of the areas that was "impacted" with, what appeared to be, dust from the OE Brembo pads. It looked very much like sandpaper that is "loaded up". The area was tightly packed and had a shinny surface.

In the photo, you can also see a few small areas of "blistering" raised on the surface of the friction material as well.

I am assuming the residue that collected in the pads was in the cooling holes on the rotors. I believe the cooling ducts I have installed may have blown the dust out of the holes from the inside as I finally got the car up to speed. My duct layout is also featured in the thread on a previous post. BTW, I did do a "cursory" cleaning of the rotors before I initially installed these pads as a matter of course.

I believe the porosity in the friction material is caused by an inconsistent mixture of particulates in the bonding medium. When the scorching is applied (without pressure on the surface) it allowed the media to boil off leaving voids in the surface. I would recommend a finishing process to restore the surface post "scorching" or, devise a way to keep the surface under pressure (contacted) while applying the scorching to the pads.

I would invite you to comment on this thread with any thoughts you might have. This thread has had over 8000 views and, a large portion of those are following this discussion. If you read the thread a bit from the post link above, you can see the car and some of the comments on this particular problem. Any information you can add will be of great benefit to the membership! It would also serve as an introduction for you to our forum.....

Thanks for your time...

Terry






>
>
>
>
>

>
>
__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 08:54 PM   #174
Erik@Torq
 
Erik@Torq's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 SS + '04 Z16 Z06 S/C
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Miramar, FL
Posts: 1,492
Send a message via MSN to Erik@Torq
Awesome photos of the car bud, she looks right at home out there! Curious to read the response from EBC and their thoughts about the pad issue. When's your next track day planned for?

Camp Steeda in may at Sebring would be awesome!

Erik
Erik@Torq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 09:03 PM   #175
Beauwulf

 
Beauwulf's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 LT RS A6 & '04 Acura RSX Type S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik@Torq View Post
Awesome photos of the car bud, she looks right at home out there! Curious to read the response from EBC and their thoughts about the pad issue. When's your next track day planned for?

Camp Steeda in may at Sebring would be awesome!

Erik
Sebring sounds doable in May... if I get the brakes worked out! Still have to test them....
__________________
Beauwulf is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Must post picture of a Chevy to win. "prima"Donna Off-topic Discussions 74992 09-14-2013 12:33 AM
My mail-person dropped something in my box today usa1camaro1969 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 4 06-13-2010 12:45 AM
Look what I found today. Crider Cosmetics and Lighting Modification Discussions 5 10-25-2009 10:32 AM
Found and bought a CGM 2010 SS today... Nine Ball Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 96 06-04-2009 09:57 AM
Found this in the paper today. 10,000 camaros ordered Th3Nigh7Stalk3r 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 31 01-05-2009 10:07 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.