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Old 01-15-2011, 03:27 PM   #1
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Question about LS3 engine

Why is it the Manual SS engine is 426 Hp and the corvette is 430? I know it's not a big diff but if they are the same engine , why less for camaro
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:33 PM   #2
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Different airflow. Just like the V6 camaro having more HP than the cadillac even though its the same engine.
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:33 PM   #3
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Nah, so close it must be a marketing thing. The corvette had to be better. Notice how torque and hp peak at exact same place. The engines are almost identical.

SS
Torque: 420 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 426 hp @ 5900 rpm

Corvette
Torque: 424 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 430 hp @ 5900 rpm
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:42 PM   #4
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Exhaust system differences and Corvette marketing.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSLarry View Post
Nah, so close it must be a marketing thing. The corvette had to be better. Notice how torque and hp peak at exact same place. The engines are almost identical.

SS
Torque: 420 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 426 hp @ 5900 rpm

Corvette
Torque: 424 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 430 hp @ 5900 rpm
Quote:
Originally Posted by My 5th View Post
Exhaust system differences and Corvette marketing.
It has very little to do with Corvette marketing. But rather Corvette engineering.

The people on the Corvette team did an amazing job at optimizing airflow for the car. And so it's slightly more efficient than the Camaro (because that team did a great job, too. )

It's nice to think that 4 hp/tq is the amount that would make a difference in marketing...but this time...it's all about airflow.
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
It has very little to do with Corvette marketing. But rather Corvette engineering.

The people on the Corvette team did an amazing job at optimizing airflow for the car. And so it's slightly more efficient than the Camaro (because that team did a great job, too. )

It's nice to think that 4 hp/tq is the amount that would make a difference in marketing...but this time...it's all about airflow.

I think its airflow from the marketers' mouths. Vette sales have been slipping last few years.

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2010/...orvette-sales/
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:30 PM   #7
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well i was just curious.... do you guys think a auto 2011 ss camaro could take a 2008 base vette?
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:32 PM   #8
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I'd be willing to bet they have a different engine tune aswell.

Either way, the Hp is what ever GM says it is.
Then you take the car to a dyno and learn the truth (Whp).
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:39 PM   #9
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well i was just curious.... do you guys think a auto 2011 ss camaro could take a 2008 base vette?
How? The Camaro is a pig compared to the Vette, and has a higher drag coefficient.

Vette costs a lot more though
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:40 PM   #10
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well i was just curious.... do you guys think a auto 2011 ss camaro could take a 2008 base vette?
No i don't. The Vette is about 1,000lbs lighter. Won't even be close.
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:42 PM   #11
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oh ok... my neighbor has a 08 vette, was just wondering if it would be close
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Old 01-15-2011, 08:44 PM   #12
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some R&T hard numbers here:

$49900 Corvette Coupe 1LT
2-Door Rear Wheel Drive Car, 430 bhp, 424 lb-ft, 6-sp Manual, 16/26 mpg
2 passengers, 3200 lb, 6.2-liter, 8-cylinder engine, 7.5 lb/bhp <<<<<


$31795 Camaro Coupe 1SS
2-Door Rear Wheel Drive Car, 426 bhp, 420 lb-ft, 6-sp Manual, 16/24 mpg
4 passengers, 3850 lb, 6.2-liter, 8-cylinder engine, 9.1 lb/bhp <<<<<
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Last edited by SSLarry; 01-15-2011 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 01-15-2011, 08:47 PM   #13
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lol marketing......


It's the exhaust. We've been over this numerous times.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:23 PM   #14
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Regardless of exhaust flow, intake design, etc., GM will NEVER advertise the Camaro with more horsepower than the Corvette. With that said, nothing in the GM lineup will ever have more horsepower than the ZR1 Corvette.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:32 PM   #15
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I drove my friend's 2007 Z06 yesterday just so I can compare the power to my car. His car is rated at 505hp, not sure what the RWHP is. The Z06 is 3000 pounds and you can feel the difference, the one thing I really noticed was that his manual transmission shift so much smoother than mine. I know one thing for sure, my SS beat all three of my friend's Z06 vetoes in Auto-X almost overtime out. Some of that is the driver and some is all of the work I have done to my suspension. I like to brag that my 36k car can beat their 50k+ corvettes. My Camaro is now up to 47,600 so I still have some bragging rights!
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSLarry View Post
Nah, so close it must be a marketing thing. The corvette had to be better. Notice how torque and hp peak at exact same place. The engines are almost identical.

SS
Torque: 420 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 426 hp @ 5900 rpm

Corvette
Torque: 424 ft-lbs. @ 4600 rpm
Horsepower: 430 hp @ 5900 rpm
So are you saying that it is not possible for the Corvette to have a slightly better flowing exhaust? That the only way for there to be a 1% difference, under the same SAE testing procedure with the same engine, is for the Camaro marketing team to have been forced to downplay what the car really makes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveagogo1 View Post
No i don't. The Vette is about 1,000lbs lighter. Won't even be close.
?
3860 lbs - 3208 lbs = 652 lbs

How do you get 1000?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
Regardless of exhaust flow, intake design, etc., GM will NEVER advertise the Camaro with more horsepower than the Corvette. With that said, nothing in the GM lineup will ever have more horsepower than the ZR1 Corvette.
I guess the Z28 be rated at 429 hp then?
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:59 AM   #17
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Gone are the days of "under reporting" for "insurace purposes". And also gone are the days when Toyota added 10 to 20 HP to every engine they produced. Do you guys remember the year when the Camry dropped 15 hp?

Anyway here is the link to the SAE site on this very topic.

http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/

And from that site:

SAE Engine Rating Standard Prevents Numbers Fudging (an article on how GM will use SAE J1349 Certified Power, AEI May 2005, Vol 113 No.5, p 59 )

General Motors has become the first manufacturer to certify an engine's power and torque ratings using a newly adopted SAE standard (J2723), James Queen, GM Vice President, Global Engineering, announced during his keynote address at the SAE World Congress and Exhibition in April 2005. The world's largest automaker plans to certify all of its engines to the voluntary standard, and is encouraging its competitors to do the same. The LS7 engine for the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 was certified under the new standard this month. The 7.0-L V8 unit produces 505 hp (377 kW) at 6300 rpm and 470 lboft (637 Nom) at 4800 rpm. "The new voluntary SAE power and torque certification procedure ensures fair, accurate ratings for horsepower and torque as it uses third-party certification," said Queen. "SAE technical standards level the playing field, and this certification procedure is just the latest example of the value SAE has offered over the past century." To tout power and torque ratings as "SAE-certified," engine manufacturers must have an SAE qualified witness watch over the entire testing procedure to ensure that it is conducted in conformity to SAE standard J1349. Third-party witnessing is the main provision of J2723. An existing SAE standard, J1349, spells out how the actual testing is to be done. J1349 was updated last year to eliminate some ambiguities that allowed engine makers to cite power and torque ratings higher than the engine's actual capabilities. Engine makers are free to cite power and torque figures drived from testing conducted outside the scope of the SAE standards, but they may not claim the figures are SAE-certifed. "We feel that both the consumer and industry are well served by having accurate, consistent ratings from all manufacturers," said David Lancaster, a Technical Fellow in GM Powertrain and Chairman of the SAE Engine Power Test Code Committee that updated J1349 and wrote J2723. Data from a wide array of parameters (e.g., air:fuel ratio) will be collected during testing conducted to the SAE standards. SAE will create a database and offer it to industry in different packages and at different price points.

And further as I understand it, the Corvette VCE Dave Hill is at least partially responsible for this standard. Cheating, lying and fudging was not his way.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpate16 View Post
well i was just curious.... do you guys think a auto 2011 ss camaro could take a 2008 base vette?
The 2008 has the same engine as us but not the weight ,so no. Were 13 seconds so were faster that alot of Vettes out there stock for stock. I have a blower so Iam a Vette killer. Here's how other years stack-up.

0-60 and 1/4 times stock

1957 Chevrolet Corvette 6.6 14.2
1965 Chevrolet Corvette 6.2 14.9
1967 Chevrolet Corvette L71 5.6 13.8
1968 Chevrolet Corvette 327 7.7 15.6
1968 Chevrolet Corvette 427 6.3 14.1
1969 Chevrolet Corvette 427ci 435hp 5.3 13.8 (C&D Sep '69)
1970 Chevrolet Corvette 427 6.1 14.3
1973 Corvette 350ci L82 6.7 15.1 (C&D Dec '72)
1973 Corvette 454ci 6.4 14.6 (C&D Dec '72)
1975 Chevrolet Corvette 350 9.6 16.4
1976 Chevrolet Corvette 350 8.1 16.5
1977 Chevrolet Corvette 8.8 16.6
1979 Chevrolet Corvette L82 7.3 15.7
1980 Chevrolet Corvette L82 7.4 15.4
1982 Chevrolet Corvette 9.2 16.6
1984 Chevrolet Corvette 6.7 15.1
1985 Chevrolet Corvette 5.7 14.1
1986 Chevrolet Corvette 5.8 14.4
1986 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible 6.0 14.5
1988 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible 6.0 14.6
1988 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 6.0 14.6
1990 Chevrolet Corvette 5.7 14.3
1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 4.4 12.8
1991 Chevrolet Corvette L98 5.3 13.9
1991 Chevrolet Corvette Roadster 5.6 14.1
1992 Chevrolet Corvette LT1 5.7 14.1
1992 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 5.6 13.9
1993 Chevrolet Corvette LT1 5.3 13.9
1993 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 5.2 13.6
1994 Chevrolet Corvette LT1(auto) 5.5 14.1
1994 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 4.7 13.1
1995 Chevrolet Corvette LT1 5.2 13.7
1995 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 4.9 13.1
1996 Chevrolet Corvette Collectors' 4.9 13.3
1996 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport 4.7 13.3
1997 Chevrolet Corvette 4.7 13.3
1998 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible 5.1 13.5
1999 Chevrolet Corvette Hardtop 4.8 13.3
2001 Chevrolet Corvette C5-R 3.5 10.3
2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.6 13.0
2001 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.0 12.6
2002 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.1 12.5
2002 Chevrolet Corvette (Lingenfelter 427 twin turbo) 1.97 9.24
2003 Chevrolet Corvette (50th Anniversary) Manual, 4.9 13.4 (R&T Aug. '02)
2005 Chevrolet Corvette C6 4.2 12.5 (chevrolet.com)
2006 Chevrolet Corvette ZO6 3.5 11.5 (MT Oct '05)
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 3.7 11.8 (MT Oct '07 Vol. 59, NO. 10)
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:56 AM   #19
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. . .

I guess the Z28 be rated at 429 hp then?
In this thread, We are comparing SS vs Vette grand sport (obviously).

So the marketing dept will allow up to 599 hp for the Z/28 because the ZR1 gets 600
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:42 AM   #20
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Ls 9 Vette to Cadillac cts-v

The LS 9 Vette engine is listed at 638 HP
The Caddy CTS -V same engine as far as I know
is rated at 556 HP
The CTS comes standard with a 4:15 gear.
I guess it must just be marketing strategy.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
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The LS 9 Vette engine is listed at 638 HP
The Caddy CTS -V same engine as far as I know
is rated at 556 HP
The CTS comes standard with a 4:15 gear.
I guess it must just be marketing strategy.
ZR1 has the LS9, the CTS-V has the LSA. Different engines.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:44 AM   #22
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Has anybody any proof of this "marketing" accusation? Compared to all the evidence provided in support of the real reason?

I'm all for speculation and good fun, but there's something about this discussion that's rubbing be totally the wrong way. But maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.....
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:51 AM   #23
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I think there is some legit small differences. The Vette has a straight shot intake air bridge, bypass valves in the mufflers, and I believe the exhaust manifold may be a hair better. They are center exit/collector, where as the Camaro manifolds are log style.

The casting to the Camaro exh manifolds is horrible also. The heads have nice D shaped ports, and the manifold ports look like Ray Charles tried to draw a D. A log style manifold with mismatched ports has to be holding back a few ponies. I can't believe they put that manifold on a performance car.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
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In this thread, We are comparing SS vs Vette grand sport (obviously).

So the marketing dept will allow up to 599 hp for the Z/28 because the ZR1 gets 600
The ZR1 has 638 hp, not 600. And chances are slim to nil that the Z28 will get the same engine as the ZR1, it will almost certainly get a regular LSA or some sort of LSA variant with a bit more power
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:34 PM   #25
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ahhhh too funny.
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