Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
HAVOC
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2011, 09:15 AM   #26
KEEP RT
Wonderfully Awful Idea
 
KEEP RT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Battle Ground, WA
Posts: 1,777
I'm probably gonna piss someone off here but will the manufactures please step up and acknowledge that they either are open at the bottom or use the stock square tube that is smaller than the one going to the TB? If so how is it so much better than stock? Remember a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link!
__________________
KEEP RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 09:37 AM   #27
Rcfiddy1

 
Rcfiddy1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Rally Yellow 2SS/RS #37115
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manalapan, New Jersey
Posts: 1,768
ADM RaceScoop and CAI here.


__________________
Build Thread
ECS Paxton Novi 1500 Blower Black, Alky Control Meth Injection, LS3 conversion, ECS Blower cam, Trunion upgrade, Vigilante 2800 stall, BMR suspension parts, 3.45 rear, Stainless Works LT headers, BnB fusion ZL1 exhaust.
Rcfiddy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 09:51 AM   #28
madmaxx18
 
madmaxx18's Avatar
 
Drives: 07_tundra/08_zo6
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wichita falls, tx
Posts: 722
Hey I will trade my Cold air inductions cai for an adm one if anyone is interested.
madmaxx18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 10:01 AM   #29
IndeedSS1


 
IndeedSS1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS LS3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern MO
Posts: 3,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxx18 View Post
Hey I will trade my Cold air inductions cai for an adm one if anyone is interested.
Add the scoop to the CAI, you'll be fine.
__________________


She is only memory now.
IndeedSS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 10:53 AM   #30
madmaxx18
 
madmaxx18's Avatar
 
Drives: 07_tundra/08_zo6
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wichita falls, tx
Posts: 722
No I just like the ADM one in person better for the way I plan to have my engine bay look. It works just fine without a scoop.
madmaxx18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 12:45 PM   #31
KEEP RT
Wonderfully Awful Idea
 
KEEP RT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Battle Ground, WA
Posts: 1,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcfiddy1 View Post
ADM RaceScoop and CAI here.


Still better IMO than no scoop but look at the smallest size of the passage of the air flow path and is it smooth or obstructed in any way cause turbulences? In my common sense thinking it would work off the same theory of porting the heads or porting a throttle body. Thats just my thoughts based on the photos. I'm sure it's good but could it be better. ( Yeh I know every thing could be better but should't it be better for the price as compared to others? Unless it's just for show).
__________________
KEEP RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 12:48 PM   #32
GEEo
OKCamaros
 
GEEo's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 WRX STi
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Muskogee, OK
Posts: 4,606
ADM
GEEo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 12:56 PM   #33
Rcfiddy1

 
Rcfiddy1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Rally Yellow 2SS/RS #37115
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manalapan, New Jersey
Posts: 1,768
Im no expert in airflow dynamics but the opening you see is not that small and I don't think it will cause enough turbulence in the box to prevent the intake from getting what it needs, COLD AIR. Maybe from the pic it seems that way. Yes, it is not a ram air setup just a scoop to get cold air in from the lower grill and not from radiator. I have driven my on days in the 90s and had my Diablo monitoring IAT and I can say it did not rise above 2-3 degrees sitting at a stop. In fact as soon as I started moving the temp came down to same outside if not 1 degree cooler.
__________________
Build Thread
ECS Paxton Novi 1500 Blower Black, Alky Control Meth Injection, LS3 conversion, ECS Blower cam, Trunion upgrade, Vigilante 2800 stall, BMR suspension parts, 3.45 rear, Stainless Works LT headers, BnB fusion ZL1 exhaust.
Rcfiddy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 01:55 PM   #34
BowlingSS
Camaro Owner Since 1987
 
BowlingSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS L99 RJT
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Posts: 2,006
I went with the CAI, Inc and also have a ADM scoop I am waiting to install. I am waiting on a washer solution first.


Bill
__________________
2011 Camaro 2SS/RS L99 RJT
CAI, Inc. Cold Air Induction;ADM Scoop
Rx Catch Can;Rx Breather;Roto-Fab Washer Container
VMax Ported RJT Throttle Body
XSPower Headers and XSPower 3" Exhaust System
Elite Engineering Tunnel Brace,
Gorilla Wheel Lock System;
Tinted Windows 35%;EFILive Tune
BowlingSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 03:06 PM   #35
KEEP RT
Wonderfully Awful Idea
 
KEEP RT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Battle Ground, WA
Posts: 1,777
Thanks for the info. Sounds to be a better solution to that type of intake.
__________________
KEEP RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:57 PM   #36
axis
Search Ninja
 
axis's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ark
Posts: 7,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil'sC5vette View Post
Its ok to disagree, but what im telling you guys if you want your car to run the best have it pull the air from outside the engine bay. Capturing air from a sectioned off area of the engine bay over the front tire isnt much of a differance. Its a very nice clean, cool look, but im talking performance on the table.

Just think of this when your car is idling at a traffic light, the air temperture in the engine buy will increase over 20 degrees and will take more than five minutes of driving time to disapate. Your IAT sensor will continue to read that and add knock if it finds it nessessary on a hot day.

If your IAT sensor is reading true cold air, the temperture will still go up in the intake system, but disapate much quicker once you start driving.
I see where you're going with this but I don't think you have the proof to back it up. Yes there is no flowing air while idling but if you're sufficiently sectioned off from the engine bay, the only place to draw air from is through the OEM scoop and around the washer bottle. It can't suck air in from the engine bay. I'm sure it gets a little heat from the radiator via the OEM scoop though. For those with OTR's, it's even worse. ALL their air comes directly off the hot radiator, while idling.

FWIW, a member here did a test with a thermal couple in the stock box and found that temps did rise significantly while idling but were back to OEM normal within a minute or so.
__________________
2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Halltech Yellowjacket fed
GPI modded intake manifold
Bo (knows) White ported TB
Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT
Pfadted (springs/sways)
Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI

I once parallel parked a train.
axis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 06:12 PM   #37
axis
Search Ninja
 
axis's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ark
Posts: 7,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEEP RT View Post
Still better IMO than no scoop but look at the smallest size of the passage of the air flow path and is it smooth or obstructed in any way cause turbulences? In my common sense thinking it would work off the same theory of porting the heads or porting a throttle body. Thats just my thoughts based on the photos. I'm sure it's good but could it be better. ( Yeh I know every thing could be better but should't it be better for the price as compared to others? Unless it's just for show).
Turbulence outside of the filter doesn't have much, if any, affect on HP. It's what's going on inside the filter and through the intake tube. Don't know about all the CAI's but the Rotofab has a little radius'd area going into the intake pipe and the Halltech has a HUGE radius. These greatly smooth the airflow into the intake pipe.

Quote:
I'm probably gonna piss someone off here but will the manufactures please step up and acknowledge that they either are open at the bottom or use the stock square tube that is smaller than the one going to the TB? If so how is it so much better than stock? Remember a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link!
All aftermarket CAI's that use the stock location and have a box, do not have a bottom, with the exception of Airaid. That leaves airflow from the stock location and around the waterbottle.
__________________
2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Halltech Yellowjacket fed
GPI modded intake manifold
Bo (knows) White ported TB
Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT
Pfadted (springs/sways)
Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI

I once parallel parked a train.
axis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 07:40 AM   #38
IndeedSS1


 
IndeedSS1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS LS3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern MO
Posts: 3,810
Because I've used both, here is some things to consider. The OTR at least the VR, sits over top of the radiator with the opening and scoop behind the grille but in front of the AC condensor. The box or duct of the VR doesn't get hot, partially due to the heatshield mat.

Test for hose without an intake yet. While the car is at normal operating temps put your fingers through the upper part of the grille opening and note how much heat you detect. Then pop the hood and note how much heat rises up.

With the OTR type being in front the the AC condensor and behinf the upper grille opening, the access to much closer to ambient. When moving the advantage is obvious. When sitting still, engine temps rise pretty quickly. The fans kick on more frequently and pull oustide air through the condensor and radiator into the engine bay and cycles out the bottom.

The boxed fenderwell type of cai I had was open to the bottom on the engine bay. The stock duct the grille area was used, but with the bottom open it wasn't getting the coolest air possible. The stock air box is sealed off and isn't bad in that way.

Just throwing this out there. The ECM uses IAT to make adjustments to timing. At cooler temps timing is added and hot reduced. But outside of what the ECM makes adjustments for, we know that a motor feels stronger when intaking cooler air. The IAT sensor sits well within the duct. So potentially the actual temps entering the intake manifold could be much higher, depending on the length and composition of the tract. If someone has a link of the animated graphics showing the difference in airflow within a tube, please post it for us.
__________________


She is only memory now.
IndeedSS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 07:49 AM   #39
Roto-fab 1


 
Drives: 2012 zl1
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndeedSS1 View Post
Roto-Fab. Unless I'm not seeing it right isn't the bottom of your box open. It's hard for me to tell, because of the nice paint matching and the fact that I'm color blind?
Yes, the bottom of our box is open to the fender well area, not to the engine side though. The angled wall of our air box butts up tightly to the pinch weld sheetmetal edge of the car chassis. On the bottom of our air box we have a stud that seats into the stock grommet down on the frame rail. This holds our air box in the position you see.
__________________
Thanks,
Jeremiah

Roto-fab 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 08:03 AM   #40
Roto-fab 1


 
Drives: 2012 zl1
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,437
Air box lid

While working on our W/W reservoir kit last night, I noticed an interesting view that is worth sharing. Our air box design uses the hood as our "lid" to effectively isolate engine compartment air while maximizes air box size and area around the filter-both of which help the filter draw air more efficiently.
However, we often hear the question, "Does your air box seal really contact the hood?"
These pictures are taken from outside of the car with the fender liner and tire removed.



__________________
Thanks,
Jeremiah


Last edited by Roto-fab 1; 01-20-2011 at 07:22 PM.
Roto-fab 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 08:11 AM   #41
KEEP RT
Wonderfully Awful Idea
 
KEEP RT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Battle Ground, WA
Posts: 1,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndeedSS1 View Post
Because I've used both, here is some things to consider. The OTR at least the VR, sits over top of the radiator with the opening and scoop behind the grille but in front of the AC condensor. The box or duct of the VR doesn't get hot, partially due to the heatshield mat.

Test for hose without an intake yet. While the car is at normal operating temps put your fingers through the upper part of the grille opening and note how much heat you detect. Then pop the hood and note how much heat rises up.

With the OTR type being in front the the AC condensor and behinf the upper grille opening, the access to much closer to ambient. When moving the advantage is obvious. When sitting still, engine temps rise pretty quickly. The fans kick on more frequently and pull oustide air through the condensor and radiator into the engine bay and cycles out the bottom.

The boxed fenderwell type of cai I had was open to the bottom on the engine bay. The stock duct the grille area was used, but with the bottom open it wasn't getting the coolest air possible. The stock air box is sealed off and isn't bad in that way.

Just throwing this out there. The ECM uses IAT to make adjustments to timing. At cooler temps timing is added and hot reduced. But outside of what the ECM makes adjustments for, we know that a motor feels stronger when intaking cooler air. The IAT sensor sits well within the duct. So potentially the actual temps entering the intake manifold could be much higher, depending on the length and composition of the tract. If someone has a link of the animated graphics showing the difference in airflow within a tube, please post it for us.

Well said!
__________________
KEEP RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 08:45 AM   #42
IndeedSS1


 
IndeedSS1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS LS3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern MO
Posts: 3,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto-fab 1 View Post
Yes, the bottom of our box is open to the fender well area, not to the engine side though. The angled wall of our air box butts up tightly to the pinch weld sheetmetal edge of the car chassis. On the bottom of our air box we have a stud that seats into the stock grommet down on the frame rail. This holds our air box in the position you see.
Thanks, it was hard to tell from the picture.
__________________


She is only memory now.
IndeedSS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 08:52 AM   #43
IndeedSS1


 
IndeedSS1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS LS3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern MO
Posts: 3,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEEP RT View Post
Well said!
Thanks. My intention was to clear up some things posted that appeared misleading and then to stimulate some more intelligent conversation. I find reading information from those with first hand experience more useful than someone repeating others experiences, or worse, repeating said experinces as their own.
__________________


She is only memory now.
IndeedSS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 09:15 AM   #44
Haole
My K9 partner and me
 
Haole's Avatar
 
Drives: 10 IOM SS
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 1,045
If i may ask a question. I'm interested in getting a CAI upgrade. I am not worried about increasing horsepower. I just want a good quality one that will help with gas mileage and the sound. Any advice would be apprecisted.
Haole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 09:42 AM   #45
IndeedSS1


 
IndeedSS1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS LS3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern MO
Posts: 3,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haole View Post
If i may ask a question. I'm interested in getting a CAI upgrade. I am not worried about increasing horsepower. I just want a good quality one that will help with gas mileage and the sound. Any advice would be apprecisted.
I never really notice mpg changes stock, cai box style, or OTR. Sound wise, you will get more sound from one that is basically an open cone under the hood, or HAI (hot air intake) I believe K&N may fall into this catagory. The Ingen fenderwell intake probably has a noticable sound increase as well. The sealed boxes and OTR put the sound toward the front of the car and you'd hear less from those...sound is an opinion thing..and that's all mine is. I bought solely on performance potential.
__________________


She is only memory now.
IndeedSS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 11:21 AM   #46
Haole
My K9 partner and me
 
Haole's Avatar
 
Drives: 10 IOM SS
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 1,045
After reading all tbe posts i have narrowed my choice down to 3. Rotofab, CAI,and Volant.
Haole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 11:30 AM   #47
Never Satisfied
220/221 whatever it takes
 
Never Satisfied's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 1SS/RS M6 SW
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lafayette In
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto-fab 1 View Post
Air box lid

While working on our W/W reservoir kit last night, I noticed an interesting view that is worth sharing. Our air box design uses the hood as our "lid" to effectively isolate engine compart air while maximizes air box size and area around the filter-both of which help the filter draw air more efficiently.
However, we often hear the question, "Does your air box seal really contact the hood?"
These pictures are taken from outside of the car with the fender liner and tire removed.



Nice pics...thanks for sharing.
__________________
2010 Summit White 1SS/RS M6
Roto-Fab CAI, MNM 224/236 114, UD Pulley, VMax TB & Intake, Kook's LT's w/ Cats & X, Kook's Ex, Pedder's Xa Coilovers, UMI Trailing Arms, UMI Toe Rods, BMR Subframe Bushings, DSS 9" kit w/ 4.57's, MNM DynoTune 479rwhp/451rwtq 12.03 @ 121.62mph (1.9 60')
Never Satisfied is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 12:08 PM   #48
IndeedSS1


 
IndeedSS1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS LS3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern MO
Posts: 3,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haole View Post
After reading all tbe posts i have narrowed my choice down to 3. Rotofab, CAI,and Volant.
I can tell you the CAI is a very well built nice looking setup. But I didn't notice much sound increase over stock. I can only assume sound increase with the Roto-Fab would be like the CAI. Don't know about the Volant. Roto-Fab and CAI rated very high on dyno testing and current owners.
__________________


She is only memory now.
IndeedSS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 12:42 PM   #49
Never Satisfied
220/221 whatever it takes
 
Never Satisfied's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 1SS/RS M6 SW
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lafayette In
Posts: 961
FWIW, one of my first mods was my Roto Fab and it was a noticeable sound increase.
__________________
2010 Summit White 1SS/RS M6
Roto-Fab CAI, MNM 224/236 114, UD Pulley, VMax TB & Intake, Kook's LT's w/ Cats & X, Kook's Ex, Pedder's Xa Coilovers, UMI Trailing Arms, UMI Toe Rods, BMR Subframe Bushings, DSS 9" kit w/ 4.57's, MNM DynoTune 479rwhp/451rwtq 12.03 @ 121.62mph (1.9 60')
Never Satisfied is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 07:20 PM   #50
Roto-fab 1


 
Drives: 2012 zl1
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingSS View Post
I went with the CAI, Inc and also have a ADM scoop I am waiting to install. I am waiting on a washer solution first.

Bill
We are getting really close on the Roto-fab W/W reservoir. It will come with everything you need to install with absolutely no modifications to your car-no drilling, cutting, etc.



__________________
Thanks,
Jeremiah

Roto-fab 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
cai, cold air intake

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cold Air Inductions Intake System! ADM Performance Cold Air Scoop! & Packages! AutoAgenda V8 Bolt-Ons & Tunes 438 11-23-2013 10:49 PM
BBK Shorty Header Dyno Test Today!!! Jason 98 TA Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 64 08-14-2012 07:05 PM
Hot air Intakes -By Kenne bell ADM PERFORMANCE Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 66 02-08-2011 08:33 PM
RAM AIR MYTH OR TRUTH JANNETTYRACING Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 30 06-18-2010 11:41 PM
Roto-Fab Cold Air Intake from Phastek Performance Sean@Phastek V8 Bolt-Ons & Tunes 17 06-09-2010 12:31 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.