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View Poll Results: On ORIGINAL I Have OR Have Had
2 or More Vehicles Over 300,000 1 10.00%
1 Vehicle Over 300,000 0 0%
1 or More Vehicles Over 200,000 3 30.00%
At least 2 Vehicles Over 120,000 2 20.00%
1 Vehicle Over 120,000 4 40.00%
OVER 120,00 NEVER!!! 0 0%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-21-2011, 09:54 PM   #1
One Mean Chevy
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Thumbs down DON'T look now the Goverment is upping ETHANOL Content.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/epa-set-...-vehicles.html

UPDATE:Heres Info from the EPA:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15/

Check the most recent link at the bottom: Partial waiver for use of E15 in MY2001-2006 light-duty motor vehicles (Pre-publication version) (PDF) (64 pp; 1.2MB; January 21, 2011)

UPDATE:
POLL ADDED thanks for the Idea fielderLS3:
The Title should say On ORIGINAL Engine I Have or Have Had
I Can't edit the Poll Title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fielderLS3 View Post
So...."useful life" is defined as 100,000 to 120,000 miles? So when the government assures us that it won't do damage, or cause premature wear, it is on the assumption that catastrophic failure around 100-120K miles is the normal, and that you therefore can't reasonably expect to get any more miles out of a car than that?

In the 21st century, "useful life" should be double what the EPA seems to think it is. Next time you hear that ethanol won't hurt your car, just remember that is using the 1970s as their baseline for durability.

Maybe a poll should be set up to see if I have a point....How many of you out there have a car, or have had a car, with over 120,000 miles on the original engine?
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Last edited by One Mean Chevy; 01-31-2011 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:02 PM   #2
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More Ethanol. Good. (Great, actually)

Ethanol from Corn. Bad.

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Old 01-21-2011, 10:06 PM   #3
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
More Ethanol. Good. (Great, actually)

Ethanol from Corn. Bad.


So, are you saying that Non-Corn base Ethanol is not corrosive?
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Mean Chevy View Post
So, are you saying that Non-Corn base Ethanol is not corrosive?
Brazil doesn't seem to have a problem, and they use 20% or more. From anything I've heard, the cars over there use the same engines as most cars in North America. Then there are flex-fuel vehicles on top of those than can take anything up to E100

That said, I would rather have seen them up the availability of E85 than go to E15
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:31 AM   #6
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So, are you saying that Non-Corn base Ethanol is not corrosive?
Noooooooooo, he is saying that corn based ethanol will drive up food prices "proven fact".
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:20 AM   #7
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Noooooooooo, he is saying that corn based ethanol will drive up food prices "proven fact".
bad time to be a teenager
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:19 AM   #8
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Brazil doesn't seem to have a problem, and they use 20% or more. From anything I've heard, the cars over there use the same engines as most cars in North America. Then there are flex-fuel vehicles on top of those than can take anything up to E100

That said, I would rather have seen them up the availability of E85 than go to E15
Ethanol is ethanol. Corrosiveness will not change. E85 is really not a problem on most modern cars. I assume he is talking about political and economic impacts.

As far as making e85 more available, I agree. E85 is a fantastic alternative for many vehicles. If they marketed it properly, it would be a great success. For the performance world, it's cheap 106-110 octane
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:36 AM   #9
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I thought E85 was to be cheeper to? Not around here think its like 20 cents less then regular. Doesn't it burn like 15% faster to? lol Not a fan of this at all.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Mean Chevy View Post
So, are you saying that Non-Corn base Ethanol is not corrosive?
I'm saying alcohol isn't very corrosive though. But I believe the fact that ethanol is hygroscopic (absorbs water) is the concern.

There is so much negative posting around this topic. As mentioned, Brasil made it a point many years ago to be less dependant on oil. They have acted on this with a great amount of success. Google it and read up on it. It's quite a success story.

What everyone seems to miss is that nothing in the near term will be as cheap as oil. Even at $150 per barrel the only thing that looks good as an alternative is the less cheap oil (tar sands and shale oil) that require even more processing than crude. And I'll say it again, the price of oil will not go over the price of refining shale oil. No competition is good for OPEC.

Didn't you guys ever watch the Beverly Hillbillies? I call it "Jed Clampett Oil", because it's so easy to get to you just have to shoot a bullet in the ground. That's what we have today, and it's CHEAP.

At some point we have to transition away from Jed Clampett oil and to more renewable and self sufficient energy sources. Problem is those are all more expensive than the cheap stuff and no one is willing to go there.

Say it with me, "we're not hooked on oil, we're hooked on cheap oil"
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:11 AM   #11
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Are there any gas stations around where you can still buy "real" gasoline without ethanol added?
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:36 AM   #12
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Are there any gas stations around where you can still buy "real" gasoline without ethanol added?
Yes, there was a thread started last week some time. The OP was asking if using 100% pure juice was ok. Included a picture of the station with a sign indicating 100% gasoline.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:52 AM   #13
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Are there any gas stations around where you can still buy "real" gasoline without ethanol added?
All of the gas stations around here only carry pure gasoline.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:56 AM   #14
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Sounds like they are trying to push people into those *hybrd* cars.....
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:58 AM   #15
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If ethanol wasn't produced from corn, or "corrosive", or blah blah blah, no one would be complaining or claiming people are trying to push it on us. Sometimes I think people just bitch to bitch. Who is filling everyone's head with anger over such trivial BS things? ....Oh, I know...

Be happy we are getting cheap as dirt race fuel.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:31 PM   #16
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Sounds like they are trying to push people into those *hybrd* cars.....
..or not.
2012 Camaro V6 is supposed to be E85 compatible
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:56 PM   #17
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Sounds like they are trying to push people into those *hybrd* cars.....
?

Using a non-oil based fuel is a great way to reduce fossil fuel usage without having to drive a hybrid.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:56 PM   #18
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This sucks for those with cars prior to 2001, and I am not convince this does not have negative long term affects for cars made in 2001-2007 either.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Mean Chevy View Post
So, are you saying that Non-Corn base Ethanol is not corrosive?
Nope, I'm not. Ethanol is ethanol no matter where it comes from. And it will always be corrosive to rubbers and plastics over time. But Flex-fuel vehicles and dedicated E85 vehicles (I can dream....) are designed with the proper components to eliminate or greatly reduce corrosion.

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Originally Posted by 80Zedder View Post
Noooooooooo, he is saying that corn based ethanol will drive up food prices "proven fact".
No, I'm not saying that, either. Ethanol from corn does have an effect on food prices, though...just not NEARLY as big of an effect as certain establishments would like you to believe.

I simply meant that ethanol from corn is one of the least efficient ways to produce the fuel. And nobody likes to hear "corn" anymore...so best to please both camps, imo, and switch to cellulosic-materials (including recycled waste products).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
There is so much negative posting around this topic. As mentioned, Brasil made it a point many years ago to be less dependant on oil. They have acted on this with a great amount of success. Google it and read up on it. It's quite a success story.
Yes, Brasil has had much success with ethanol from sugar...there's one pretty huge hiccup, though. They are chopping down their rain forests to plant sugarcane at a very dangerous rate...and even as a car nut, that's frightening.

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At some point we have to transition away from Jed Clampett oil and to more renewable and self sufficient energy sources. Problem is those are all more expensive than the cheap stuff and no one is willing to go there.

Say it with me, "we're not hooked on oil, we're hooked on cheap oil"
Many producers of cellulosic-based ethanol say that if they were able to produce the fuel on scales comparable to gasoline production, it would be very cost-competitive, if not cheaper than gasoline from oil (depending on the source). Coskata, a partner with GM, is one of them. I agree with your assessment of our situation...and I think expensive gasoline's best side-effect will be the creation of an environment where ethanol companies can flourish and scale up their production, resulting in a lower priced alternative that will compete in the market and serve to drive down prices across the board.

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This sucks for those with cars prior to 2001, and I am not convince this does not have negative long term affects for cars made in 2001-2007 either.
If the manufacturers are worried about it, so am I.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:32 PM   #20
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Well, I'm in the middle of an e85 build, already have the fuel system prepped. It should be done by mid February, so I'll let you guys know how it works out and keep you updated on any problems I have down the road. . .
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:44 PM   #21
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Forget corn and sugar cane for Ethanol production. The best and probably the most cost efficient form of producing Ethanol is from growing switch grass. It yields more ethanol per ton, requires little to none agricultural maintenance, actually replenishes the soil with nutrients, removes carbon dioxide (CO2 ) from the air, isn`t prone to droughts, insects or blight.

Whats the down side to switch grass? Well if you`re a farmer you probably don`t get those fat Government subsidy checks for growing corn.

http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/switgrs.html
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
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This sucks for those with cars prior to 2001, and I am not convince this does not have negative long term affects for cars made in 2001-2007 either.
There will most likely be a release made in the not too distant future about E15 being safe in cars from 199X-2001.
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:04 AM   #23
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Forget corn and sugar cane for Ethanol production. The best and probably the most cost efficient form of producing Ethanol is from growing switch grass. It yields more ethanol per ton, requires little to none agricultural maintenance, actually replenishes the soil with nutrients, removes carbon dioxide (CO2 ) from the air, isn`t prone to droughts, insects or blight.

Whats the down side to switch grass? Well if you`re a farmer you probably don`t get those fat Government subsidy checks for growing corn.

http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/switgrs.html
Not to be a dick, but it's kind of funny that you would say it takes CO2 out of the atmosphere. It's a plant. They all do that.
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mickss View Post
Forget corn and sugar cane for Ethanol production. The best and probably the most cost efficient form of producing Ethanol is from growing switch grass. It yields more ethanol per ton, requires little to none agricultural maintenance, actually replenishes the soil with nutrients, removes carbon dioxide (CO2 ) from the air, isn`t prone to droughts, insects or blight.

Whats the down side to switch grass? Well if you`re a farmer you probably don`t get those fat Government subsidy checks for growing corn.

http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/switgrs.html
Ethanol from switchgrass is a type of Cellulosic ethanol, as Dragoneye mentioned earlier.
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:33 AM   #25
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If we want to partially replace oil with bio-fuels, why not biodiesel instead of ethanol. Biodiesel is not corrosive, can be used using our existing energy infrastructure and vehicles, and won't shorten the lives of our cars. Plus, diesel is in tighter supply than gasoline, so it would make for sense to supplement diesel, not gasoline, with biofuels for that reason alone.

Quote:
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Are there any gas stations around where you can still buy "real" gasoline without ethanol added?
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle2k View Post
If ethanol wasn't produced from corn, or "corrosive", or blah blah blah, no one would be complaining or claiming people are trying to push it on us. Sometimes I think people just bitch to bitch. Who is filling everyone's head with anger over such trivial BS things? ....Oh, I know...

Be happy we are getting cheap as dirt race fuel.
Since I don't drive a race car, I would prefer cheap regular fuel, and ethanol is not cheap.

Friday's close:

Gasoline: $2.463 wholesale
Ethanol: $2.328 wholesale

5.5% less per gallon for 30% less energy. Add to that the study that showed the US taxpayer is subsidizing ethanol to the tune of $1.70+ per gallon, and suddenly the actual cost is $1.60 more per gallon for 30% less energy. Then add to that the fact that we risk a HUGE dependency upon foreign food for a small decrease in foreign oil dependency. (Using all of our agricultural land to grow corn ethanol would replace just 12% of our transportation fuel).
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