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Old 02-01-2011, 05:30 PM   #1
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416 Reliability?

I was having a discussion with an engine builder today who was not saying very nice things about stroking the LS3 Aluminum Block out to 416. He said (maybe not word for word here) the sleeve length is too short, and part of the piston comes out of the sleeve, which leads to an rocking of the piston causing wear on the sleeve which will lead to premature smoking.
I would be interested to hear other's opinions. Is the 416 a reliable motor?
Thanks!
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:08 PM   #2
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what your builder is talking about is a 4.1" stroke crank on an ls motor. The 416 typically uses a 4.0" stroke crank.

The 4.1" stroke would make it a 427, and in which, he would be correct.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:43 PM   #3
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I've read that eric from HKE worked with wiseco and developed a piston for a 427 -4.1" stroke that works well for the smoking problem but have never heard anything about any problems with a 4" stroke. You'll find much more real world experience on LS1 tech Christian. Or you can ask Charlie
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danhr View Post
what your builder is talking about is a 4.1" stroke crank on an ls motor. The 416 typically uses a 4.0" stroke crank.

The 4.1" stroke would make it a 427, and in which, he would be correct.
This is my understanding as well.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:01 PM   #5
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What do you think of this 416 kit ?

"We can forge your LS3, make it a 416 for $3850 and it will be good for 900+ rwhp. We will drop the compression by using a deep dish piston taking your heads into consideration. This is the least expensive way to get to where you want to go.

We use a Callies C-series crank and Eagle rods, Wiseco pistons and GFX rings, ARP mainstuds, ACL coated race bearings.

honed, line honed, decked, balanced.. ready to go !

We can upgrade the rods and crank to Compstar for a bit more money. The C series crank is a favorite of Erik's to help save some money. The Compstar is the next level up and then the Dragonslayer. We use this combo in a lot of engines to keep costs down."
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:29 PM   #6
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:41 PM   #7
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Most bang for the buck is the 416 in my opinion and anything Erik at HKE builds is reliable and very fast WORD!!!
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:48 PM   #8
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Going by how your engine builder responded - find a new engine builder. The 4.0 stroke on a 416ci is fine if the right pistons are used.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:00 PM   #9
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He isn't my engine builder, just an engine builder I was talking with. He was trying to see me on an RHS Block, which is as much as Erik wants for the whole bottom end!
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christiancoach View Post
He isn't my engine builder, just an engine builder I was talking with. He was trying to see me on an RHS Block, which is as much as Erik wants for the whole bottom end!
you need to be looking to put down some serious power to justify a rhs block.

details?
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:58 AM   #11
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Sounds like he is old school or he has no experience with LSx engine building.
The 416 is as reliable as you want it to be. It comes down to the valve-train and tune. The 427 with the 4.100 stroke is not recommended for a power adder.
Yes he is correct if you chose the wrong piston then you will have issue but there has been correct piston for the LSx engines for a long time now. My builder Erik from HKE designed the correct piston for Wiseco and it has been copied by most although some companies still have issue as they haven't got it completely correct yet.


Ahh I see the Holden now, I was talking to you yesterday. You don't need the RHS block !!
HKE and I work together to bring the very best combinations we can to meet a persons budget. Reliability is number one in our minds. This is why we offer the 416/427 combination. For the money we can make as much power if not more than most s/c systems on the market ( stock engine) and have it be more dependable.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:16 AM   #12
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Yes, we were talking yesterday. A buddy of mine recommended a builder, so I called him. He was trying to upsell into something crazy. SoundS like reliability isn't an issue.
I just have to decide forced induction or NA, for the long term.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Performance View Post
Sounds like he is old school or he has no experience with LSx engine building.
The 416 is as reliable as you want it to be. It comes down to the valve-train and tune. The 427 with the 4.100 stroke is not recommended for a power adder.
Yes he is correct if you chose the wrong piston then you will have issue but there has been correct piston for the LSx engines for a long time now. My builder Erik from HKE designed the correct piston for Wiseco and it has been copied by most although some companies still have issue as they haven't got it completely correct yet.


Ahh I see the Holden now, I was talking to you yesterday. You don't need the RHS block !!
HKE and I work together to bring the very best combinations we can to meet a persons budget. Reliability is number one in our minds. This is why we offer the 416/427 combination. For the money we can make as much power if not more than most s/c systems on the market ( stock engine) and have it be more dependable.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:39 AM   #13
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I went forced induction, but if I had it to do over again I would have went NA. I just plain didn't know any better that there would be any issues with the FI route..now I'm saving up for the stroking to 416 ci project...which will likely take years since I'm working on suspension and fuel and other things in the meantime. You can get an NA 416 ci to the same level of performance as the FI bolt on if you add some goodies to reconsructing the long block...ie, nasty cam, heads, headers. The engine will be stronger too. Just be sure about your end goal. You don't want to build an 11 to 1 compression shortblock then later decide that you want a supercharger too.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:26 PM   #14
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Im also saving for a 416 project for my E-Force SC, but dont know if all the hassle is going to be worth it..... since the only cam that I might use is the LS9.

The car is my DD and I want to keep the stock engine sound, maybe to get the full potential of the 416 you need a agressive cam (which I dont want).


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