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Old 02-06-2011, 12:16 AM   #151
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Plumb crazy is an 'interesting' color - and I'm anxious to see how many of them get built and sold.........I'll bet you dinner that the numbers will be very low.......and while this is very subjective, the only ones I've seen are in shows or on dealers' lots.......I have yet to see one being driven..........
Not to disagree with you, but... My mom owns a Plum Crazy SRT8 and drives it to work every day except when its snowy/icy or if there's going to be a LOT of rain.

I'll stick with my camaro though, and let me say... Synergy Green is an amazing color! I've been heavily debating spraying it onto my 4th gen!
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:23 AM   #152
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Well -- I'm sorry that you feel the Camaro is a disappointment (maybe I'm not quite understanding everything you're saying.....)
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We could have 'rushed' the car -- but that wouldn't be the right thing to do. Yes -- you saw the Camaro in Transformers....let me assure you that the whole idea of putting the Camaro in Transformers was hotly debated.

On one side - there's your argument: Show the car longgggg before it will hit the streets.

The other side was to say "No thanks -- use a Mustang or a BMW or a VW".......

Can you imagine? I'm glad we put the Camaro in the movie (as, I think, most enthusiasts agree) and I will also venture to say that it's one of the reasons the Camaro has been so successful. (every child sees a Camaro and sees "Bumblebee!"...)
fbodfather,

First, please understand that I do NOT feel that the new Camaro is a disappointment. To the contrary I feel it is the best built car in its category in the world and if taking time to get it right was what it took, then touché. My point is that during this process and the bankruptcy us Camaro enthusiast felt disappointment with all that was happing in the “F” and “C” world throughout the wait. Darn it was a long and hard time having to take smack from those “F” and “C” owners till the Camaro came out. This was the reason for the disappointment.

Oh God yes I agree that a Camaro in Transformers was the best, no, the only choice! But taking smack from those other guys while waiting was really hard and you must admit there were many professionals in the automotive industry that felt disappointment that the Camaro was not out sooner.

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Yes - Chrysler beat us to the punch - but when you look at the differences between a Challenger and Charger versus a Camaro and the Holden Zeta - you'll see that we essentially have a new car in the Camaro - everything from the cowl forward had to be clean-sheet......plus a whole lot of other stuff..........

I agree completely, again please do not misunderstand my comments. I know the Camaro is a completely new and much better car then the “F” or “C” models. But, I have to be honest standing by watching these models come out was extremely disappointing. The proof is in the fact that I waited for and purchased a Camaro and not an “F” or “C” model. On top of that I give the general credit for having the insight to use the current chassis, the “F” models solid rear axle will never make it a competitor to the Camaro and according to them it would cost an additional 4 to 6 thousand dollars a car to copy the Camaro. So dollar for dollar the Camaro is a much better buy too, dare I say steal…now don’t get any ideas about increasing prices….lol

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-- keep in mind that we were still trying to support 8 Divisions back in 2006- whereas Chrysler had three. I'll put the current GM Portfolio up against Chrysler's current portfolio -- and I think you'll agree that we invested a LOT of money in the past 4-5 years -and that's why our products are winning in the marketplace......(count the number of new cars and trucks that Chrysler has introduced since January 9, 2006 and today - versus GM............see what I mean? And lest we forget: The Mustang is Ford's Corvette. The Challenger is Chrysler's Corvette. (for now) I will be more than happy to take them to Spring Mountain with their best - and introduce them to something called a Z06 - or a ZR1..........(and we ain't done yet!)

Your points are right on and again I am not disappointed in the products just the timing which as you have so eloquently pointed out was just the way it turned out to be. We are all just very glad that the general is back!

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I have yet to see a Challenger convertible - so I have to assume that the Challenger owners are 'disappointed' as well. Yes, Mustang has a convertible....

Yep most likely those one or two buyers are still disappointed and maybe the “C” is not too worried about them. But the tens of thousands of future Camaro convertible owners are no longer disappointed…

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I beg you to go drive a Mustang Convertible and then a Camaro convertible - there is simply no comparison.......(ask any of the Camaro Disciples that have driven both...or read the road tests from auto journalists)

I will get my chance; the Camaro convertible is the next ride in my garage.

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Plumb crazy is an 'interesting' color - and I'm anxious to see how many of them get built and sold.........I'll bet you dinner that the numbers will be very low.......and while this is very subjective, the only ones I've seen are in shows or on dealers' lots.......I have yet to see one being driven..........
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Houndstooth? Very retro - and available thru SLP.
Color and interior, while important to a few of us, is not a deal breaker for the majority of current or future Camaro owners. And speaking as a GM stock owner I would rather have sales.. As a Camaro enthusiast though, I am still disappointed that the retro Hugger Orange has not yet made it into the cards.

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Will we tell you everything that's planned? Absolutely not - simply because, as you point out - this is a very competitive business.....and we are not going to show our cards before we need to.

Here is my point about communication. When I first learned of the new Camaro I knew from the start that I wanted to experience the 5th generation of the car I grew up with as a teenager; a Hugger Orange, Z28 Camaro Convertible… So when the 5th Gen Camaro was released to my disappointment neither the convertible nor the Z28 was available. So I waited patiently and faithfully, subscribing to all of the auto blogs and forums, visiting all of the dealers, attending all of the auto shows where I would ask any GM rep I could find to ask; when is the convertible due out? When is the Z28 coming out? And all throughout this time the answers I received and read about were all over the place. One day GM is doing a Camaro convertible, one day they are not. One day GM is doing a Z28, one day they aren’t. It really began looking like neither was going to happen, so in April 2010 I went and purchased the closest thing to it, a 2010 Inferno Orange coupe just to get a Camaro, because it was killing to see them on the street and me and my faith sitting by waiting for a model that GM themselves could not, or would not confirm they were even building. So now less than 12 months later there is finally a convertible and next year maybe, with even more faith, there will be a Z28 but who knows and it’s too late for me because I now own an Inferno Orange coupe. So now that the convertible is out, GM has once again placed me in the “what if” game. Should I buy a convertible now or watch as everyone around me drives one while me and my faith wait for a Z28 that might never come to be. All this would be no problem if I could just afford to buy and sell a Camaro each time I get closer to that original dream of a 5th Gen Hugger Orange Camaro Convertible…

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Please pay attention to the sites on Wednesday from Chicago. I don't think you'd be 'disappointed'......
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I think Challenger and Mustang owners may be disappointed - esp. because the Camaro is outselling them - and January once again showed that there is a preference for Camaro.


Now - I don't mean to belittle your points or to take them lightly. To do that implies that we are invincible - and we are not.
And I in no way meant to imply that the new GM was anything but an outstanding, innovative and caring company. I met most of the Camaro team at Carlisle last year and I can tell you that they are the most dedicated team I have ever had the pleasure to meet. I was really impressed that most brought their families with them and the amount of time they took out of their lives to meet and greet the Camaro owners.

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Rest assured that the last thing we want to do is to disappoint our customers - that said:
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We would much rather 'disappoint' you by taking longer to bring you the best products - rather than 'disappoint' you by producing and delivering an inferior product.

Lastly- as Number 3 points out - we also had to deal with Bankruptcy.......


I will say this for the 20 millionth time:

Have Faith.

I don't believe I've steered the Camaro Enthusiast community wrong yet - and I don't intend to..........

Let's chat Thursday!
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:29 AM   #153
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Again, "keep the faith" with Pontiac, its never too late, as for a GMC Trans Am?...i knew i should have mentioned GMC along with Buick and Chevy when i made the T/A / Cuda comparison LOL...but hey, at least i can say im partially responsible for getting the website for further details out of fbodfather! Im gonna be studying it religiously all night O_O
I'll keep you all posted....

SOOOO with no Pontiac which means no T/A or GTO id hope for a Chevelle, even though im fairly certain its a Camaro, i would love to see a Chevelle, itd be pretty awsome to be able to have some choice when it comes to muscle from GM, more than just which trim model Camaro you want ya know?
But if this is what is going to be announced, and you dont have to say yes or no, but i just wanna say, if it is and is meant to compete with the Charger...it should have a 2-door option haha
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:17 AM   #154
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:23 AM   #155
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The choice of wording here is interesting. Calling it a car "based on the Camaro platform". If it ends up being a Camaro then that will be a pretty dumb way to tease it. If I am being optimistic it would be cool for them to unveil a new 4 door G8 replacement that is based on the Camaro (but obviously not with the Camaro name). However I won't be at all disappointed if it is the 2012 Camaro or the HP edition. GM is most definitely on a roll right now with cars like the CTS-V, Cruze, Volt and to be honest even the new Sonic is a huge improvement over the old Aveo. Can't wait for later this week!
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:51 AM   #156
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http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...t-certain.html

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Old 02-06-2011, 02:56 AM   #157
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wow...i REALLY hope thats not what will be shown in Chicago...i mean not to rain on any parades but that Caprice looks just like another Cobalt, its just so incredibly vanilla, your average 4-wheels of transportation. Even with a V8 its still just so bland...if this was what was shown id have to agree with the 5thgenindy500 guy, lots of hype for something..not..really..amazing...
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:15 AM   #158
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Referencing my link above...IF it is supposed to be the G8 brought back to life, I really hope it looks a little somewhat like it...not whats on the that photo, as that looks kind of bland. We will see...
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:47 AM   #159
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I'd like to think it's an El Camarino.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:32 AM   #160
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The Mustang is Ford's Corvette. The Challenger is Chrysler's Corvette. (for now) I will be more than happy to take them to Spring Mountain with their best - and introduce them to something called a Z06 - or a ZR1..........(and we ain't done yet
I don't really think this is correct. Considering corvettes are double the price of mustang I don't think you can put them in the same category. I don't think Ford produces a vette equivalent car off the top of my head. I would also compare the vette to the viper over the challenger considering the price and performance gap.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:50 AM   #161
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wow...i REALLY hope thats not what will be shown in Chicago...i mean not to rain on any parades but that Caprice looks just like another Cobalt, its just so incredibly vanilla, your average 4-wheels of transportation. Even with a V8 its still just so bland...if this was what was shown id have to agree with the 5thgenindy500 guy, lots of hype for something..not..really..amazing...
That's because the vehicle shown is a stripped-down 9C3 police model.

The standard civilian Holden Caprice is much more of a premium sedan.



And its high-performance HSV variant...

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Old 02-06-2011, 08:20 AM   #162
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Just because they are debuting a "Camaro-based" car doesn't mean that they can't also debut the "HP" edition Camaro. Last time I checked GM isn't limited to bringing one car to the show.

And to me, "Camaro-based" could also simply mean another Camaro model.

From Fbod's comments it seems to me there will a Camaro at the show. And it will be one we will be happy to see!
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Old 02-06-2011, 08:25 AM   #163
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DING DING DING, my bet is we have a winner as to what is going to be shown at the Chicago Auto Show, although a much nicer looking one.

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I don't really think this is correct. Considering corvettes are double the price of mustang I don't think you can put them in the same category. I don't think Ford produces a vette equivalent car off the top of my head. I would also compare the vette to the viper over the challenger considering the price and performance gap.
Yes, he is correct, that would be the GT500. Viper is gone. So, what he is saying is that's the best they got to compete with the best Chevrolet's got.

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That's because the vehicle shown is a stripped-down 9C3 police model.

The standard civilian Holden Caprice is much more of a premium sedan.



And its high-performance HSV variant...

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Old 02-06-2011, 08:45 AM   #164
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"GM’s Mark Reuss announced the debut of a vehicle based on the Camaro platform".
OK, lets revist this quote. Firebird is out of the question based on Scott's response I feel (for now at least). So lets do what we do best here, speculate! Definition of debut: first public appearance or presentation of a performer, program, or performance. Definition of based: a fundamental principle or groundwork; foundation. A basic definition of a platform in automobiles, from a technical point of view, includes: underbody and suspensions (with axles) — where the underbody is made of front floor, underfloor, engine compartment and frame (reinforcement of underbody). An automobile platform is a shared set of common design, engineering, and production efforts, as well as major components over a number of outwardly distinct models and even types of automobiles, often from different, but related marques.[2] It is practiced in the automotive industry to reduce the costs associated with the development of products by basing those products on a smaller number of platforms. This further allows companies to create distinct models from a design perspective on similar underpinnings. The Chevrolet Camaro is the only Zeta platform model to go into production in North America.
Taking whats been said in the ever so criptic statement by Mr. Reuss, this vehicle could be anything, but it will be Chevy no doubt. It could be a new model with a new name (sheetmetal, outer body per se) on the Holden Zeta platform as it currently is produced with the Gen5 Camaro, or a new edition of the current Camaro,(as in HP), not a Z28...it already debuted eons ago. Either way the cats outta the bag on 2-9-11. Stay tuned Camaro fans...!
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Old 02-06-2011, 09:25 AM   #165
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As the Camaro is "based on" the Zeta I (Commodore and Statesman/Caprice) if it were to be some kind of sedan why would someone say it is based on the Camaro? Wouldn't you simply say it's based on the Caprice PPV? Which is already announced? Or are you hinting at the first Zeta II Sedan? Something that doesn't exist yet?

Hmmmmmm this is interestingly more interesting. Mr. Reuss is perhaps far more cryptic than the simple announcement?
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Old 02-06-2011, 09:39 AM   #166
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They had a Caprice at the Chicago auto show last year. I don't think that's the car they're talking about.
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:04 AM   #167
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I hope fbodfather knows this is a Z28 thread and not a 'next generation Caprice' thread
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:48 AM   #168
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what if it is just the XM accessory appearence package and you guys just hyped that up too much? Hopefully its the Z28
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:52 AM   #169
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maybe the synergy series??
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:52 AM   #170
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I hope fbodfather knows this is a Z28 thread and not a 'next generation Caprice' thread
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:56 AM   #171
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OK........pay attention.........this is a CAMARO site..........I keep saying 'Have Faith'........we're going to announce the new Bel Air...... --OK - I made that last part up.........
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:57 AM   #172
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OK........pay attention.........this is a CAMARO site..........I keep saying 'Have Faith'........we're going to announce the new Bel Air...... --OK - I made that last part up..........
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:59 AM   #173
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I hope fbodfather knows this is a Z28 thread and not a 'next generation Caprice' thread

I do.
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:05 AM   #174
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Yes, he is correct, that would be the GT500. Viper is gone. So, what he is saying is that's the best they got to compete with the best Chevrolet's got.




Correct.

My point is this:

Ford and Dodge -- bring us your fastest 2011 performers -- and we have something to best you........

Now - you you might say "well.....yeah....so?" And I say "it takes engineering and money to bring you the Corvette and Camaro - a substantially larger investment-- is that investment worth it?

ABSOLUTELY!

........ and I think most would agree that

"Team Chevy" > Team Ford

and

"Team Chevy" > Team Dodge....

in terms of overall performance.......so yes, it's worth the additional investment.....and we are blessed to have some of the most enthusiastic owners in the world:

Camaro Enthusiats
and

Corvette Enthusiasts....

...and in terms of Camaro and Corvette? .......we are not finished, nor WILL we ever be finished...............

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Old 02-06-2011, 11:12 AM   #175
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All I am going to say is:



http://www.hsv.com.au
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