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View Poll Results: Do you want to see an automatic option for the ZL1?
Yes 1,312 66.30%
No 667 33.70%
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:15 AM   #171
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Look at the GT500:
Ford made the calculation that even though they could have designed and tested an automatic trans with their supercharged 5.4, they decided against it. Why? It's simple math...they figured the net result would be fewer GT500's sold. Duh. The gain in the number of 'automatic-only' buyers who could now buy a GT500 would not offset the loss in manual drivers who would now take the GT500 off their shopping list ( because the car lost it's focus ).

In the end, Chevy might not make this assumption. It all depends on how amazing of an auto trans they can develop, and how much it would cost to the ZL1 program. With the right tranny at the right cost, there could be a net gain.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:57 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by SSLarry View Post
Look at the GT500:
Ford made the calculation that even though they could have designed and tested an automatic trans with their supercharged 5.4, they decided against it. Why? It's simple math...they figured the net result would be fewer GT500's sold. Duh. The gain in the number of 'automatic-only' buyers who could now buy a GT500 would not offset the loss in manual drivers who would now take the GT500 off their shopping list ( because the car lost it's focus ).

In the end, Chevy might not make this assumption. It all depends on how amazing of an auto trans they can develop, and how much it would cost to the ZL1 program. With the right tranny at the right cost, there could be a net gain.
No offense but someone who is so insecure about themselves that they would refuse to buy a car just because an automatic transmission is offered is someone that I wouldn't mind not owning a Camaro.

Think about this, we are on a Camaro enthusiast site and therefore are pretty much as hardcore fans as you will find. I think it is a fair assumption that amongst a hardcore group of muscle car fans manual transmissions have higher popularity than they do amongst the general public. Yet even on this site we have around 64% of people in favor of offering an automatic so if you ask me Chevy would sell a lot more automatics than you might think. I would love to know what percentage of C6 Corvettes (base or grand sport) have autos.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:50 PM   #173
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Although I will personally be buying a stick and not an auto here is my rant. The first thing I see as a potential issue is drivability with the camshaft in the car. If you listen to it it has a pretty agressive idle that may not work well with an auto. Another thing of note is that my 2006 gto cost more due to the 6 speed "option." I think that an auto probably makes sense at some point due to the growing population that has never learned to drive a stick but I think it should be a later or second year addition. Another issue as some have noted is that the gm autos may not be built to handle the power yet. With all this said I am not against an auto option but it may not be as simple to add as some may think.
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Old 02-17-2011, 01:47 PM   #174
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No offense but someone who is so insecure about themselves that they would refuse to buy a car just because an automatic transmission is offered is someone that I wouldn't mind not owning a Camaro.
. . .
I'm not sure if you read my whole post.

I'm talking about Ford's decision and Ford's perception of the buying public, not mine. Can you offer up another explanation as to why they chose not to offer an auto on the GT500. Please, I'm all ears.
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Old 02-17-2011, 01:56 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by SSLarry View Post
I'm not sure if you read my whole post.

I'm talking about Ford's decision and Ford's perception of the buying public, not mine. Can you offer up another explanation as to why they chose not to offer an auto on the GT500. Please, I'm all ears.
Because the GT500 is not feasible as a daily driver. I agree that if a car is strictly meant as a track car or weekend car then offering it as a manual only is ok however I don't see the ZL1 that way at all. The ZL1 to me comes across as a car that is suitable for both track and daily driving (especially given that the magnetic ride control is a standard feature). I honestly believe that there are a good number of people who aren't going to be debating between a ZL1 and a GT500 as a purchase but instead will be debating between the ZL1 and the C6 Corvette because both can be used on the track as well as for your daily commute.

Here is another stat to consider. 56% percent of all 2010 Corvette models sold had an automatic transmission. Now if you eliminate the sales of ZR1 and Z06 Corvettes since they don't offer an automatic transmission option then you see that 68% of people chose the automatic option if it was available.

Yes they are different cars but they are targeting much of the same market and given that their prices are so close I think it is a fair comparison.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:10 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by DevilKnightFalcon View Post
Because the GT500 is not feasible as a daily driver. I agree that if a car is strictly meant as a track car or weekend car then offering it as a manual only is ok however I don't see the ZL1 that way at all. The ZL1 to me comes across as a car that is suitable for both track and daily driving (especially given that the magnetic ride control is a standard feature). I honestly believe that there are a good number of people who aren't going to be debating between a ZL1 and a GT500 as a purchase but instead will be debating between the ZL1 and the C6 Corvette because both can be used on the track as well as for your daily commute.
Ok, so you agree that if the GT500 is the in fact the target of the ZL1, then Chevy may not offer an auto for the same reasons Ford didn't. But you think the GT500 isn't the target, right?

I agree with you that the C6 GS will lose some sales to the ZL1. Maybe the Corvette line will evolve into just the Z06 / ZR1 (?), but given the choice of how to spend $50G's it's a no brainer for me, especially if the ZL1 gets 1g lateral .
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:15 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by SSLarry View Post
Ok, so you agree that if the GT500 is the in fact the target of the ZL1, then Chevy may not offer an auto for the same reasons Ford didn't. But you think the GT500 isn't the target, right?

I agree with you that the C6 GS will lose sales to the ZL1. Maybe the Corvette line will evolve into just the Z06 / ZR1 (?), but given the choice of how to spend $50G's it's a no brainer for me, especially if the ZL1 gets 1g lateral .
I think that the GT500 is a target yes but in my eyes GM has the opportunity to change the market here by making this a reasonable car for people to drive everyday. I guess it just depends on how you interpret the success of the ZL1. Some will say as long as it is faster than the GT500 then that is all that matters. Personally I think it should be faster and it should open up the high performance muscle car market to more people thus increasing sales.

I think you are right when the next version of the Corvette comes out it will likely be pushed a bit higher to leave more room between it and the ZL1.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:31 PM   #178
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Yeah, I just think the ZL1 is a poor man's Z06, and that car is stick only. We'll see how they play it.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:50 PM   #179
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I really hope GM makes this car with an automatic. The automatic can be very fun to drive.

My car has an old-fashioned auto with a plain old torque converter and it works pretty well. The paddle shifters are convenient to use. And the transmission tune offers rev matching/ throttle blipping. It's quite fun.

And it's tuned to function like a manual in that, if you are in "Manual" mode and you don't upshift, the car will shut off. My point is, you have to do the shifting and the car really feels like you're shifting with a manual transmission.

I love driving in Manual mode but I find that it is inconvenient some of the time and because of that I would be scared to own a pure manual transmission for DD.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:52 PM   #180
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Yeah, I just think the ZL1 is a poor man's Z06, and that car is stick only. We'll see how they play it.
The cars aren't really comparable. I mean they both have big engines and are designed to be driven hard but that's where the similarities end.

At the 47K base price point, I just think the ZL1 is a hell-of-a-deal.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:58 PM   #181
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My neighbor blew me away yesterday. (maybe the day before)

But he came over and asked me a million questions about the car and said he was looking at getting one. He said he heard the Z-28 was coming out and he would love the power with a warranty. (told me once again that he thought I was crazier than shit, I started tearing my car apart in the garage as soon as I got it )

I had no idea he would even be in to a car like this.

So I told him all about the ZL1 and he was totaly cool with checking it out. (How cool would that be? I could race mine against his and see who wins)

We were talking about all rumors leading up to now and when I told him about the tranny he was bummed. NO WAY could he get the stick. His wife, who interestingly enough seems to be more interested than him in this stuff, can not drive a stick.

Now I did my due diligence, while she was out there, in telling her she could learn in no time, but she wasn't even gonna try. The car would be his, but she has to be able to drive it.

He shifted the conversation directly to the 2011 BMW M3 as it does have true paddles and a full automated mode. He already knew that. So because it's the hot topic here on C5, I decided to ask him straight up. Would he honestly consider getting the ZL1 if it has an auto option. He said it legitimately would be between that and the M3. He said he had googled the Z-28 and liked what he saw........ apperently he had seen the ZL1 and just figured Z-28, he described soem of the reveal pics........ and so I tried to 'Sell' him a ZL1 then and there, , but I told him there would be no auto tranny at least the first year. He said he was buying when his car was paid off next June and could trade a little early but wouldn't wait any longer.

So I listened to a bunch of talk about the BMW and tried to stay interested but there wasn't much I really gave a damn about. I did learn a little about the M3 though.

And Bonnie needs a 4 door.
C63 AMG ... just sayin...
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Old 02-17-2011, 03:00 PM   #182
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Ya my 2LT will be fully paid off and I'm gonna need to have some extra cash to make it feasible. If I'm being really optimistic I'd like to have the ZL1 at $55k including tax and what not but I figure if I plan on it being more like $60k then maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.
You could purchase one with under 10,000 miles and get it for a price you may be more comfortable with. Let the first buyer take the initial depreciation. Just a thought.
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Old 02-17-2011, 03:05 PM   #183
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Look at the GT500:
Ford made the calculation that even though they could have designed and tested an automatic trans with their supercharged 5.4, they decided against it. Why? It's simple math...they figured the net result would be fewer GT500's sold. Duh. The gain in the number of 'automatic-only' buyers who could now buy a GT500 would not offset the loss in manual drivers who would now take the GT500 off their shopping list ( because the car lost it's focus ).

In the end, Chevy might not make this assumption. It all depends on how amazing of an auto trans they can develop, and how much it would cost to the ZL1 program. With the right tranny at the right cost, there could be a net gain.
I think you make legitimate points.

But, I also think Ford only sells the GT500 with a manual trans because the manuals are often more durable. Just look at the solid axle rear ends. They are so solid that they probably don't brake too often.

Autos can be more finicky and perhaps that's why Ford doesn't mess with them in the GT500. That car is just a bruiser -- it's built real tough (Ford tough, jk). But, it was only recently that Ford stepped up and turned the heavy GT500 into a really good handling car.

GM seems to be going in a different direction. Just look at the CTS-V coup. And now the talk about the ZL1 being track ready and able to take on all comers.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:00 AM   #184
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Maybe, since the ZL1 is a "performance" vehicle for Camaro, a real sequential shifting (automatic) should be a ZL1 option.
Corvette Racing is using an automatic this season. The video below tells ya why! Where the bottom line is being QUICKER!
Bob


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Old 02-18-2011, 10:25 AM   #185
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Maybe, since the ZL1 is a "performance" vehicle for Camaro, a real sequential shifting (automatic) should be a ZL1 option.
Corvette Racing is using an automatic this season. The video below tells ya why! Where the bottom line is being QUICKER!
Bob


No one is disputing that supercars have race-oriented automatics. It gives racers an edge. I've actually driven the new M3 with $3500 optional automatic. It truly is a manual in every way, just without a human operated clutch.

But why doesn't Corvette offer an auto on their track and supercars? It's a philosophy at Chevy that probably will carry over to ZL1 as well.

Corvette Coupe: manual or auto ($49K/$51K)
Corvette Z06: manual only ($75K)
Corvette ZR1: manual only ($110K)
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:41 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by SSLarry View Post
No one is disputing that supercars have race-oriented automatics. It gives racers an edge. I've actually driven the new M3 with $3500 optional automatic. It truly is a manual in every way, just without a human operated clutch.

But why doesn't Corvette offer an auto on their track and supercars? It's a philosophy at Chevy that probably will carry over to ZL1 as well.

Corvette Coupe: manual or auto ($49K/$51K)
Corvette Z06: manual only ($75K)
Corvette ZR1: manual only ($110K)
I think that usually this technology drifts down from the racing program. Once GM is comfortable with the sequential shifter in their race car we'll probably see it in a production vehcle. I would expect to see one available in Corvettes in 2 to 3 years and maybe in the Camaro shortly after.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:32 PM   #187
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I'm not sure if you read my whole post.

I'm talking about Ford's decision and Ford's perception of the buying public, not mine. Can you offer up another explanation as to why they chose not to offer an auto on the GT500. Please, I'm all ears.
They didn't offer an auto cause they would have to build/certify a special transmission to only go into the GT500. A bunch of extra cost that would drive up the cost of both models.

The auto for the ZL-1 already exists. It's in the CTS-V. The Caddy dept. has already paid all the research costs, this keeps costs down. A WAY more feasible option for General Motors
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