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Old 02-25-2011, 06:01 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Having worked on the Corvette and Z06, that is one program to be envious of the cars weight. Seriously better than anything on the road for mass. For the Z06, we took out well over 100 lbs with the aluminum frame, carbon wheel house, carbon floor pan, caron fenders and all of that was offset by the LS7, dry sump oiling, giant wheels, tires and brakes.

But Hylton, would you really buy a car without air today? At least on a car you would drive regularly? I think some would, and also radio delete etc. but at that point you'd be looking at some pretty low volumes selling to the really hard core. Wait, oh, I forgot.............that's you.

Even the aftermarket hasn't spawned the car you are describing. All of them are pretty much "add a supercharger" and go from there, rather than strip stuff off and attack the chassis.

I think I just gave you a business idea.
I agree with everything you say here. I am a hardcore guy (especially when it comes to Z/28's and 1LE's). I guess I can always rip that stuff out but then why offer a ZL1 and a Z/28 if a Z is to be nothing more than a different engine from the ZL1?

Most folks posting here are generally running down the same road with what their vision of a Z is. As hideous as a Boss Mustang looks, they have some pretty cool features such as back seat delete and an optional "track tune" which gives the car lumpier idle and moves the powerband for track purposes.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:14 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
why offer a ZL1 and a Z/28 if a Z is to be nothing more than a different engine from the ZL1?
Because that is the difference between the ZR1 & the Z06 Carbon/Ultimate performance edition.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:42 PM   #139
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Because that is the difference between the ZR1 & the Z06 Carbon/Ultimate performance edition.
Not exactly but I get what you are saying.

You know, if they punched out some lightweight sheetmetal as they did for the Cruze Eco, it could used for both the Z/28 and the 2LS. Just sayin' Number 3
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:56 PM   #140
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Not exactly but I get what you are saying.
ok, besides the hood & fenders... what else? lets please not get into floormats btw
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:46 PM   #141
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Said much more diplomatically than I could ever have done.

I'm just keeping my early 2010 2SS/RS stock with the origional GM Performance Division badge and chicklets in place. With all the changes everybody's makin with their cars.. this is gonna be a rare one in 30 years!
Actually, the smart guys are keeping the stock parts in a warm safe place. So, in 30yrs. you're going to have 1 out of a few thousand original 2010 Camaros', like I will t that will be worthless.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:19 PM   #142
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1. Jay Leno body
2. Engine- DI 302 built strong and with the idea that power adders could be added later. I would be fine with 400HP or less.
3. Optional supercharger.
4. Standard Hurst shifter. (the aftermarket one, not the watered down version in the SS)
5. Auto or maunual trans
6. Higher gear ratio than SS.
7. Aggressive exhaust ( not as fancy as ZL1, but something that will sound like a Z28 should.
8. Make rear seat delete, radio delete, maybe others, an option that will lower price if you don't want it.
9. Track suspension-something that improves on handling of SS that won't skyrocket the price.

I envision the Z28 as a race ready Camaro that as is will outperform competition on track or street, but is affordable and doesn't cost much more than an SS. I want the engine to have a reputation for being easy to get high horsepower numbers out of , but not necessarily in stock form. If the car lightens up and they get the suspension right, it won't need a ton of HP to beat Boss 302.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:27 AM   #143
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A different idea

I have no doubt that if there is going to be a Z/28, it would be slotted against the Boss 302,so don't hate me... but....

How about a V-6 powered car? Now don't laugh.....

if we go back to what the Z/28 was all about is 1967....this fits. A great handing car, not necessarily the most powerful engine available. I am sure GM is thinking about increasing the HP of the V-6. My "Z/28" would be the lead in for the improved V-6.

The Z/28 would have ZL-1 tires and what ever else that would make handing a priority. It would also be the lightest Camaro available. It would also come with the GM parts exhaust system or something even better.

I was just watching a show a couple nights ago and a 1969 Z/28 was being restored for Auction. It was a 1 of a kind color. Was restored back to original at a cost of over $100K. They ran it in the quarter mile. Got a 16 second pass @ 85mph. Not sure if this is tyical for a 67-69 stock Z/28, but kind of thinking it is. The current V-6 cars are way better than that.

just a thought....
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:54 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Darth93 View Post
I was just watching a show a couple nights ago and a 1969 Z/28 was being restored for Auction. It was a 1 of a kind color. Was restored back to original at a cost of over $100K. They ran it in the quarter mile. Got a 16 second pass @ 85mph. Not sure if this is typical for a 67-69 stock Z/28, but kind of thinking it is. The current V-6 cars are way better than that.

just a thought....
Believe me, those numbers aren't typical for a 1st gen Z.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:41 PM   #145
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Make the Z come in at 400HP and 600lb lighter that's what it needs to be, Not that hard if you want.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:22 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Darth93 View Post
I have no doubt that if there is going to be a Z/28, it would be slotted against the Boss 302,so don't hate me... but....
Z/28 = BOSS...as per '69, as per now (hopefully)...high-reving V8s. The problems to overcome for Z vs. BOSS are power-to-weight (SS is 300+ lbs. heavier; LLTs are 200+ heavier), which, with OHV vs. OHC, will require more cubes AND hp than the BOSS.

Quote:
I was just watching a show a couple nights ago and a 1969 Z/28 was being restored for Auction. It was a 1 of a kind color. Was restored back to original at a cost of over $100K. They ran it in the quarter mile. Got a 16 second pass @ 85mph. Not sure if this is tyical for a 67-69 stock Z/28, but kind of thinking it is. The current V-6 cars are way better than that.

just a thought....
In magazines of the day, on tires of the day, showroom-stock Zs ran mid-high 14s, a time matched by current LLT V6s. LS3 SSs are generally capable of running equal/better times than either COPO, again on tires of the day and unmodified. Never underestimate the "power" of gription!

As to the notion of de-contenting saving money, a page from the Porsche Club Sport book would actually tell you that "less is MORE" expen$ive...
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:48 PM   #147
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First post!

The way I would want my Z28.

First and foremost it needs to have an LS7. No ifs ands or buts.
I know what kind of power an LS3 is capable of. But Im also aware of the kind of power you can get from a 7.0 liter engine with awesome heads.
Same size and minimal weight differences. Make it wet sump if you must, whatever. Yeah its more expensive, but well worth it.
Next start with a 1LT, add the ZL1 HD driveline components and MR shocks and suspension upgrades, yes expensive but again worth it. Z28 specific 19" forged wheels with PS2 rubber.
Inside, go with black cloth interior and nice recaro seats. Make a rear seat delete and power accesories delete an option as well.
All the usual weight reduction tricks, carbon fiber here, aluminum there, thinner glass, etc.
Now if you can get it to weigh even 3700 lbs and cost even 45K. I would be all over it.
The Boss 302 Laguna Seca version is around that price so I dont think its too crazy.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:33 PM   #148
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The Z28 needs to be a track/street type of Camaro. Chevy should try & get it in the 3400-3500 lb range. The SS is a comfortable street car. The ZL1 is a performance car for streets. The Z28 should be a performance car for the track/street

SS vs GT
ZL1 vs GT500
Z28 vs Boss 302

Quote:
Originally Posted by z28camaro2471 View Post
We've already seen the Z/28. They just called it SSX to confuse us. Yes I believe that...seriously.
I believe it will be something like the SSX (hopefully) but the looks will be different compared to a SS. Maybe the same engine as a SS but just beefed up a little bit! & of course some aerodynamics & weight reduction. But def not a TT V6. The Jay Leno Camaro is beautiful but a Z28 should never be a V6. That's what you got the RS for.
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:32 PM   #149
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V 6

For all you guys that want a V-6 turbo, I hope the only color you can get it in is neon Green or Pink.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:47 PM   #150
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My 69 Z28 times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
Believe me, those numbers aren't typical for a 1st gen Z.
I ran my stock 69 Z28 at least 20 times at Oswego Drag Strip in late 1969. After finding the best RPM's to come out of the hole and hitting 2nd and 3rd with power shifts, my best time was around 15.1 with the fiberglass radials. And I found my times to be very close to the other Z's that were stock.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:39 PM   #151
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Camaro Models
LS: 300hp 3.6L V6
LT: 325hp 3.6L V6
SS327: 425hp 5.4L V8 (327ci)
SS396: 475hp 6.5L V8 (396ci)
Z28: 525hp 7.0L V8 (427ci)
ZL1: 575hp 6.2L V8 SC

Realistically?
LS/LT: As Is
SS: New 425hp 5.5L V8
Z28: New 475hp 5.5L V8 with Brakes, Suspension, Cooling, Tires/Wheels, CF Hood/Trunklid/Splitter/Spoiler, Recaros (Optional Track Delete Package)
ZL1: Happy 2012 Intro!

RS Hideaway Headlights optional on all models
Recaro Seats optional on SS; Standard on Z28 & ZL1

Extensive GMPP Catalog

(Hopelessly wishing for an LS7 Z28 with goodies.)
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Old 04-02-2011, 08:23 PM   #152
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Guys,

OK, this is from a guy who's turning 50 this year, always been an F-Body man . . .

My 5th Generation Z/28 SPECS:

(1) 429 cid (A "better" 7.0L ) 4.185" Bore X 3.900" stroke ( GM's racing C5's use this combo on the track ) . . . Better "bump" that ZL1 up to 600HP - 650HP, because at 550HP, this motor isn't even "breathing hard" !

(2) A "REAL" 6-Speed CLOSE-RATIO Manual Transmission ( 5th Gear is 1:1 ), 6th is .62 - .7:1 OD .

(3) Beef up the IRS and put a REAL Posi Differential in it and high-strength axles . . . If they don't, it will be in pieces !

(4) Put the car on a "diet" . . . 4200 lb is ridiculous for a "Pony Car" . . . Maybe build it on the Cadillac chassis instead of the Sigma chassis. Get that weight down to 3500 lb +/- . . . !

(5) Ditch VVT & Traction Control . . . If you can't DRIVE, don't buy this car ! ! !

(6) Optional "Track Pack" with factory sub-frame connectors, upgraded exhaust, springs, shocks, bushings, etc, etc, etc.

(7) Without an FI motor, they should be able to deliver it for $50,000 - $55,000, unless they get GREEDY !

Dave Fitch
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:29 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Ez2cDave View Post
Guys,

OK, this is from a guy who's turning 50 this year, always been an F-Body man . . .

My 5th Generation Z/28 SPECS:

(1) 429 cid (A "better" 7.0L ) 4.185" Bore X 3.900" stroke ( GM's racing C5's use this combo on the track ) . . . Better "bump" that ZL1 up to 600HP - 650HP, because at 550HP, this motor isn't even "breathing hard" !
In my opinion, the LS3 would be the best option. A hot cam LS3 is very lightweight at 418lbs where an LS7 weighs 458lbs. I know its not a huge difference but when we start adding in the heavy duty suspension components and maybe additional chassis bracing, were gonna wish we had that 40lbs back. I wouldn't think a Z28 would need 550hp once we keep the weight down, you would only need between 450-475hp. Its the power curve that needs attention not the peak HP/TQ. I looked into the LS3 heads and seen that the intake/exhaust ports were improved over the LS2's. The LS3 uses the rectangular port design that the LS7 uses but there looks like there is room for some CNC work. There are endless possibilities with an intake swap as well, this is something I would look into if I wanted to flatten the curve. It would be alittle easier than porting the heads.. cheaper too.
Quote:
(2) A "REAL" 6-Speed CLOSE-RATIO Manual Transmission ( 5th Gear is 1:1 ), 6th is .62 - .7:1 OD .
I have been looking at transmissions too, I wanted to see if there was a quick an easy replacement for an upgraded LS3 (didn't look into an LS7 transmission). The downfall here is being kind of limited to Tremec as their current TR6060 GM line has two overdrives (5th and 6th) and a weak 1st gear ratio, The LS3's 6060 1st gear is a 3.01 which isn't that bad, but you would have to run a steep final gear ratio to keep the Z28 in its powerband (5000-6600rpm),I'm talking lower than a 3.73... I threw these ratio's up on another thread the other day but there is no math behind them.. Just a suggestion, beside my ratio's are the SS's in ( )
1st: 3.48 (3.01)
2nd: 2.33 (2.07)
3rd: 1.59 (1.43)
4th: 1.21 (1.00)
5th: 1.00 (0.84)
6th: 0.61 (0.57)
R: 3:33 (?)
Final Drive: 3:73 (3.45)
Not that these ratio's are perfect but they seem a little closer than the SS's. You also suggest between a 0.63-0.70 for the overdrive and I see nothing wrong with that.. The Z28 won't be in 6th gear ever with ratio's like I suggest, final gear at a 3.73 and the fact that we won't go there on a track. Still not sure how much damage a single OD would do to the MPG though.. but I have a feeling that it would be severe.
Quote:
(3) Beef up the IRS and put a REAL Posi Differential in it and high-strength axles . . . If they don't, it will be in pieces !
I would take the cheap and easy way out here and use the ZL1's driveshaft, cast iron differential and halfshafts. The IRS links (especially the "L" link) could use a stronger steel, that way we could reduce the overall size of the links. Chassis bracing would produce results, use the "V" braces the convertible uses in the front and rear, an "X" brace in the middle and a beefier transmission mount/brace.
Quote:
(4) Put the car on a "diet" . . . 4200 lb is ridiculous for a "Pony Car" . . . Maybe build it on the Cadillac chassis instead of the Sigma chassis. Get that weight down to 3500 lb +/- . . . !
By using a non S/C LS3 and Stage 1 weight reduction such as forged wheels/30 profile tires, sound deadening material removal, limiting the gas tank to 16 gallons, race interior, electric power steering and eliminating some of the comforts we could reduce curb weight by 75-100lbs.
Quote:
(5) Ditch VVT & Traction Control . . . If you can't DRIVE, don't buy this car ! ! !
VVT isn't available on the LS3 manual right now and I believe Traction control will be government mandated shortly, A sport setting or race setting would definitely be standard. I myself, suggest traction control be on if you are new to road racing or even at a new track.
Quote:
(6) Optional "Track Pack" with factory sub-frame connectors, upgraded exhaust, springs, shocks, bushings, etc, etc, etc.
I would hope that all the upgrades you listed would be standard for the Z28. There is always room for an Z28 SSX package that incorporates a Stage 2 weight reduction for the more serious racers.
Quote:
(7) Without an FI motor, they should be able to deliver it for $50,000 - $55,000, unless they get GREEDY !
I would aim the Z28 directly towards the Boss 302 and Boss 302 LS. $41,000 for the Z28 and $49,000 for the Z28 SSX.

All of the above, I think were on the right track... and I do think a 5th Gen Z28 is very possible as long as someone takes the time to do it correctly.

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