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Old 03-07-2011, 10:27 AM   #101
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Version I: Full Suspension with Xa coilovers, 305/30/19 Bridgestone RE-11s on Forgeline 19x10s all around, stock brakes with Colbalt Friction XR1 front and XR3 rear pads, ProCharger, fluid coolers

Version II: Full Suspension with Supercar coilovers, 305/30/19 Bridgestone RE-11s on Forgeline 19x10s all around, CTS-V brakes with Colbalt Friction XR1 front and XR2 rear pads, ProCharger, fluid coolers, Stage II intercooler, wrapped headers, plenum insulation removed, MAF moved to the intercooler.

Running laps, heat soak results in the computer pulling out timing and RWHP loss. We did everything we could with our setup to reduce RWHP loss on version two. It helped a bit. We found two seconds in the Supercars and brakes.
Pete - Have you guys done any work on CTS-Vs (2nd Generation)? I noticed in another thread in the ZL1 section where a V II owner lowered the car and used shorter struts for the ride sensors. The owner didn't comment on the manufacturer of the parts in that threar, but I was just curious of you could comment. I know you guys are getting a ZL1, and I believe Z28 would come with the MR shocks, too (so I'm stretching that further into Z28 development), so I figured you might be putting together a game plan, so-to-speak.

Thanks
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:11 AM   #102
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Pete - Have you guys done any work on CTS-Vs (2nd Generation)? I noticed in another thread in the ZL1 section where a V II owner lowered the car and used shorter struts for the ride sensors. The owner didn't comment on the manufacturer of the parts in that threar, but I was just curious of you could comment. I know you guys are getting a ZL1, and I believe Z28 would come with the MR shocks, too (so I'm stretching that further into Z28 development), so I figured you might be putting together a game plan, so-to-speak.

Thanks
We have a sunny day in Michigan. How is the weather in your area?
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:41 PM   #103
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We have a sunny day in Michigan. How is the weather in your area?
Touche
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:17 PM   #104
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We have a sunny day in Michigan. How is the weather in your area?


I lived in Michigan for 20 years and saw 0.002 sunny days.
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:19 PM   #105
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GM is, and has been a follower and not a leader in the Pony car market.

I say this because they are usually reactive instead of proactive when it comes to innovation and thrusting out new models.

But, when Camaro responds to a Mustang bite, it usually responds with a hammer. I wish they WOULD bring out something that you see FORD for a change go out and buy a ZL1 or Z28 or whatever to go comparison testing their new model. But so far we've only seen that with the ZL1 testing.

I'm tired of the answers following the question. For once I'd like to see GM get out in front. FAR in front.

Other than that, the "car wars" are great. In the end we all win, whichever brand we prefer.

But that article...PURE speculation. All of it. Only GM knows for sure.


Wow - I miss some threads -- and frankly, I may have already posted in this one - (if I did - sorry!)

Let's take a walk, shall we --------------down memory lane.


There was this engine called the LT1 -- and it ruled the street - and THEN there was the LS1 - and how many years did it take Mustang to finally build an engine that could compete?

And THEN there's this thing called the Z06 and another called the ZR1..........


Remember: The Mustang is Ford's Performance car - we have some lethal weapons in the Camaro and Corvette............

So - in terms of GM being out front?

I'd say we've been out-front since - oh - say - 1990 with the ZR1..............


And with all of that said: WE are never finished............
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:24 PM   #106
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LS7 is not a big block.
Number 3, please forgive my use of the term "Big Block" with current late model engines. My use stemmed from the actual size of the block vs the interchangeability between the two styles of blocks. I understand that the older true Big Blocks (396,427,& 454) were seven liter engines that other than the basic architecture, OHV - Push Rod Design have no interchangeable parts with the current LS7 - 7 liter engine. So my terminology of using the words Big Block is based solely on the common 7 liter size of the two styles of engines and nothing more. Sorry, I hope you understand. I certainly value your opinion on all things Chevy but especially Camaro. Stay warm up there.
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:21 PM   #107
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Version I: Full Suspension with Xa coilovers, 305/30/19 Bridgestone RE-11s on Forgeline 19x10s all around, stock brakes with Colbalt Friction XR1 front and XR3 rear pads, ProCharger, fluid coolers

Version II: Full Suspension with Supercar coilovers, 305/30/19 Bridgestone RE-11s on Forgeline 19x10s all around, CTS-V brakes with Colbalt Friction XR1 front and XR2 rear pads, ProCharger, fluid coolers, Stage II intercooler, wrapped headers, plenum insulation removed, MAF moved to the intercooler.

Running laps, heat soak results in the computer pulling out timing and RWHP loss. We did everything we could with our setup to reduce RWHP loss on version two. It helped a bit. We found two seconds in the Supercars and brakes.
Would a hood like the ZL1's design help?
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:22 PM   #108
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Would a hood like the ZL1's design help?
I bet that helps more air flow through the grille, coolers, radiator, condensor, etc. The placement of the air filter for that SC doesn't really help itself, either, I imagine...
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:24 PM   #109
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I have you PM and will call today.
Hey Pete, Suspension restrictions are unlimited along with brakes and wheel/tires. All components must be cleaned prior to inspection, (Exceptions)

1.) Suspension must be clean and free of debris prior to inspection, otherwise be denied inspection and prohibited for track use.

2.) As long as suspensions are not deemed unsuitable for track use via inspection; such as worn or damaged components.

3.) Factory components cannot be fabricated.

4.) Any modifications performed that are aftermarket components will be factory replacements; fabrication to suspension by welding or cutting is prohibited


Quote me for the coils...

Also, As I said on the phone, I would like to run 275/40-18's.
Is it possible to run a 285+ on the front with 18s?
Do you suggest a 19" so I can run a 30-35 sidewall? (even if you said yes I would probably fight you on it)

I am looking at the Enkei PF01's because they are extremely light for the price, right now a 18x9 but if I can squeeze a 285+ up front I will go to the 18x9.5. I will be running Nitto's but, the NT01 only comes in 275/40 (26.65" height) and 35 (25.55")-18 but the 555RII come in a 285/35-18 (25.91" height).

Edit: Nitto's might be out of the question, I think there is a tread wear limit of 140..

Last edited by thePill; 03-07-2011 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:11 PM   #110
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Like you, I believe that GM had full intentions at one time to name the coming ZL1 a 'Z28' and over time things changed. Ed Welburn came out along time ago and said that the Z28 would be returning. As time continued with the Z28 project it evolved into the ZL1 project. Like you, I am more sympathetic towards the name Z28 because it was a car that I grew up with. But with everything that Chevy did with the ZL1 and we still do not know everything that is in the package, it is a phenomenal car. The name Z28 would have been nice, but I see why they chose ZL1 and I can live with that name very easily. I just need to convince them that it needs the rear brake vents from the Jay Leno car and a Marina Blue paint job. Thanks for the nice words.
JEDI.... "Something" tells me that Mr. Wellburn is aging like we are and wanted to see "something even more special than a Z/28" if possible before he was too old to enjoy it like many of us! I, like OldSchool, believe the ZL-1 name will not be a frequent visitor to this planet. Therefore, it IS the car to replace what I lost when I had to sell my car (in pic) due to health issues. No car has ever come close to filling the void til ZL-1.. Thanks GM! Now, to make it happen!

edit: I hope the Z/28 IS released on the Alpha, IS a high strung motor, IS still comfy to drive and NOT a stripped down road racer, and finally, IS NOT going to replace the ZL-1 in either a straight line or curvy derby!
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:13 PM   #111
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JEDI.... "Something" tells me that Mr. Wellburn is aging like we are and wanted to see "something even more special than a Z/28" if possible before he was too old to enjoy it like many of us! I, like OldSchool, believe the ZL-1 name will not be a frequent visitor to this planet. Therefore, it IS the car to replace what I lost when I had to sell my car (in pic) due to health issues. No car has ever come close to filling the void til ZL-1.. Thanks GM! Now, to make it happen!

edit: I hope the Z/28 IS released on the Alpha, IS a high strung motor, IS still comfy to drive and NOT a stripped down road racer, and finally, IS NOT going to replace the ZL-1 in either a straight line or curvy derby!
What's carrying over both to the next generation? Or building a factory road-racing version of the current model?
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:10 PM   #112
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Wow - I miss some threads -- and frankly, I may have already posted in this one - (if I did - sorry!)

Let's take a walk, shall we --------------down memory lane.


There was this engine called the LT1 -- and it ruled the street - and THEN there was the LS1 - and how many years did it take Mustang to finally build an engine that could compete?

And THEN there's this thing called the Z06 and another called the ZR1..........


Remember: The Mustang is Ford's Performance car - we have some lethal weapons in the Camaro and Corvette............

So - in terms of GM being out front?

I'd say we've been out-front since - oh - say - 1990 with the ZR1..............


And with all of that said: WE are never finished............
Wow! Congrats on being ahead in the "performance" factor, is that it???
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:13 AM   #113
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Hey Pete, Suspension restrictions are unlimited along with brakes and wheel/tires. All components must be cleaned prior to inspection, (Exceptions)

1.) Suspension must be clean and free of debris prior to inspection, otherwise be denied inspection and prohibited for track use.

2.) As long as suspensions are not deemed unsuitable for track use via inspection; such as worn or damaged components.

3.) Factory components cannot be fabricated.

4.) Any modifications performed that are aftermarket components will be factory replacements; fabrication to suspension by welding or cutting is prohibited


Quote me for the coils...

Also, As I said on the phone, I would like to run 275/40-18's.
Is it possible to run a 285+ on the front with 18s?
Do you suggest a 19" so I can run a 30-35 sidewall? (even if you said yes I would probably fight you on it)

I am looking at the Enkei PF01's because they are extremely light for the price, right now a 18x9 but if I can squeeze a 285+ up front I will go to the 18x9.5. I will be running Nitto's but, the NT01 only comes in 275/40 (26.65" height) and 35 (25.55")-18 but the 555RII come in a 285/35-18 (25.91" height).

Edit: Nitto's might be out of the question, I think there is a tread wear limit of 140..
The limitations are for what class?
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:51 AM   #114
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The limitations are for what class?
Its going to be a equivalent to street modified, it translates to street preparation (or preparation street).

The entire class is based on points, so modifications will give me + points, my goal is not to exceed 12 points but get pretty close.. Engine mods are worth alot of points as well as 100 treadwear comp tires. Most aftermarket suspensions are 3-4 points so I'm still good... There are many sub-classes in Street Prep...

Edit: Pete, I just called and I left a message. Give me a call when you have time or hit me up on here and I can call you right back (I DO NOT PAY FOR INTERNATIONAL CALLS, THE TAX PAYERS DO) I can save you the long distance rates...
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:43 PM   #115
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Number 3, please forgive my use of the term "Big Block" with current late model engines. My use stemmed from the actual size of the block vs the interchangeability between the two styles of blocks. I understand that the older true Big Blocks (396,427,& 454) were seven liter engines that other than the basic architecture, OHV - Push Rod Design have no interchangeable parts with the current LS7 - 7 liter engine. So my terminology of using the words Big Block is based solely on the common 7 liter size of the two styles of engines and nothing more. Sorry, I hope you understand. I certainly value your opinion on all things Chevy but especially Camaro. Stay warm up there.
Understood and suspected you knew that. Just a general correction for those that might not know, and there are probably a few in here that haven't driven a true "big" block.
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Old 03-12-2011, 09:37 PM   #116
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Understood and suspected you knew that. Just a general correction for those that might not know, and there are probably a few in here that haven't driven a true "big" block.
NO problem, and thanks for posting your RJT convertible picture in your sig. If the ZL1 does not come in a lighter color of blue, then I will most likely go with RJT.
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:24 PM   #117
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Its going to be a equivalent to street modified, it translates to street preparation (or preparation street).

The entire class is based on points, so modifications will give me + points, my goal is not to exceed 12 points but get pretty close.. Engine mods are worth alot of points as well as 100 treadwear comp tires. Most aftermarket suspensions are 3-4 points so I'm still good... There are many sub-classes in Street Prep...

Edit: Pete, I just called and I left a message. Give me a call when you have time or hit me up on here and I can call you right back (I DO NOT PAY FOR INTERNATIONAL CALLS, THE TAX PAYERS DO) I can save you the long distance rates...
I spent most of the day with the family. I'll ring you tomorrow.
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:28 PM   #118
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Understood and suspected you knew that. Just a general correction for those that might not know, and there are probably a few in here that haven't driven a true "big" block.
Would the Dodge 426 Hemi and Ford 429 Super Conbra Jet qualify as true 'big' blocks?
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:10 AM   #119
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Would the Dodge 426 Hemi and Ford 429 Super Conbra Jet qualify as true 'big' blocks?
I'll let one of the real motor heads/history buffs comment, but I am pretty sure "small block" and "big block" are GM terms, and they might be specific to Chevrolet. Back in the day, Cadillac offered a 500 cu. in. V8 and I don't think that was ever called a "big block".

The current 7.0 L (427) in the Z06 is the largest displacement you can get from the small(er) size engine block. From what I've heard, you can't get the cylinder walls any thinner and be durable.

The old big blocks went to 454 in cars and had displacements of 502 cu. in. I believe. Those may have been truck engines. And I think there was even a larger crate motor over 9L in displacement.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:49 PM   #120
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Understood and suspected you knew that. Just a general correction for those that might not know, and there are probably a few in here that haven't driven a true "big" block.
14 litre in-line six FTW

Each of the big 3 had their larger bore spaced blocks, I grew up under the assumption the chry. 440, ford 460, chev. 454 (plus others) were big blocks
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:44 AM   #121
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I'll let one of the real motor heads/history buffs comment, but I am pretty sure "small block" and "big block" are GM terms, and they might be specific to Chevrolet. Back in the day, Cadillac offered a 500 cu. in. V8 and I don't think that was ever called a "big block".

The current 7.0 L (427) in the Z06 is the largest displacement you can get from the small(er) size engine block. From what I've heard, you can't get the cylinder walls any thinner and be durable.

The old big blocks went to 454 in cars and had displacements of 502 cu. in. I believe. Those may have been truck engines. And I think there was even a larger crate motor over 9L in displacement.
That is why I asked. I wasn't sure.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:41 PM   #122
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Would the Dodge 426 Hemi and Ford 429 Super Conbra Jet qualify as true 'big' blocks?
The terms Small Block and Big Block were pretty much reserved for Chevy engines. The basic engine layout was very much the same but block size was the big difference along with canted head valves. Fords 390, 428 & 429 engines were never called "Big" blocks compared to their 289, 302 & 351 siblings. The Dodge/Chrysler 426 was strictly called "Hemi" and had nothing to do with their smaller engines. Across the GM engine lineup none of the Pontiac 455, Oldsmobile 455 were referred to as big blocks either. It was pretty much just a Chevy thing when Camaros, Chevelles, Corvettes, Impalas and Novas came with either small blocks 327 & 350's and the same cars with 396 and 427's were big block cars circa 1965 to 1970/71 when 454 replaced the 427's in Chevelles and Corvettes.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:59 PM   #123
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The terms Small Block and Big Block were pretty much reserved for Chevy engines. The basic engine layout was very much the same but block size was the big difference along with canted head valves. Fords 390, 428 & 429 engines were never called "Big" blocks compared to their 289, 302 & 351 siblings. The Dodge/Chrysler 426 was strictly called "Hemi" and had nothing to do with their smaller engines. Across the GM engine lineup none of the Pontiac 455, Oldsmobile 455 were referred to as big blocks either. It was pretty much just a Chevy thing when Camaros, Chevelles, Corvettes, Impalas and Novas came with either small blocks 327 & 350's and the same cars with 396 and 427's were big block cars circa 1965 to 1970/71 when 454 replaced the 427's in Chevelles and Corvettes.
Did, perhaps, this designation even go back to the W-engines? I ask because I swear I've read about them identifying those as big blocks, too. The bore spacing was greater than the small-blocks and it was just a larger block, externally, too, no? Or did big blocks actually come with the Mark IVs and the earlier porcupine semi-hemis? Did us GM guys just start calling the Mopar and Ford "small" and "big" engines small and big blocks? The 318 and 360 look very much like 440s.

I like all this old school talk. Z28 won't get a big block though :( That's okay, because I'm a total Gen III/IV guy, now, anyways.
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:59 PM   #124
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I just learned something else. Over the years I muddled the Pontiac engines into the Big Block term.
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:16 PM   #125
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