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Old 03-15-2011, 11:47 PM   #126
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Did, perhaps, this designation even go back to the W-engines? I ask because I swear I've read about them identifying those as big blocks, too. The bore spacing was greater than the small-blocks and it was just a larger block, externally, too, no? Or did big blocks actually come with the Mark IVs and the earlier porcupine semi-hemis? Did us GM guys just start calling the Mopar and Ford "small" and "big" engines small and big blocks? The 318 and 360 look very much like 440s.

I like all this old school talk. Z28 won't get a big block though :( That's okay, because I'm a total Gen III/IV guy, now, anyways.
Yes it did, the 348 and 409 were considered big blocks as opposed to the SBCs of 265, 283, 327 of the day. The "mystery" Chevy BB run at Daytona in '63 was a Mark II, that was the beginning of the W series morphing into the Mark IVs of the later '60s.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:40 AM   #127
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Yes it did, the 348 and 409 were considered big blocks as opposed to the SBCs of 265, 283, 327 of the day. The "mystery" Chevy BB run at Daytona in '63 was a Mark II, that was the beginning of the W series morphing into the Mark IVs of the later '60s.
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MAN!!! I wish I was there to have enjoyed that time. I can only appreciate it through people like you, now I think we're at the same point right now, but feel our version of the 70s is coming and performance will be falling off in the next several years...

This topic is making me itch to go read some of my musclecar books later! It's easy to be distracted with all the cool cars out there right now. HECK - I even like the Mustangs!
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:37 PM   #128
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MAN!!! I wish I was there to have enjoyed that time. I can only appreciate it through people like you, now I think we're at the same point right now, but feel our version of the 70s is coming and performance will be falling off in the next several years...

This topic is making me itch to go read some of my musclecar books later! It's easy to be distracted with all the cool cars out there right now. HECK - I even like the Mustangs!
Being in high school in the sixties and entering college in the 70's was a great time for car nuts until emission laws and insurance put a halt to all of the fun. But as much fun as that was this new HP race that we are all enjoying is pretty great too! After the 450/460HP 454's of the 70's were killed off I never imagined being where we are today. Ford and Chevy going head to head with incredibly high horsepower numbers. Cadillac has a 556HP car that blows the doors off of German counterparts. The Hemi is returning with a vengeance and the world is trying to catch up with what America is building. Ford announced today that their 2013 GT500 will be making an estimated 620HP, just a few horsepower less than the mighty ZR1 Corvette at 632HP. In the 60's, 600HP cars were were full blown race cars, not something that you went to your Ford or Chevy dealer and picked out a color. Enjoy theses days because they are the good old days returned with a lot more horsepower. Enjoy them because they will not last forever. The government just does not like us having this much fun!
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:54 PM   #129
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Being in high school in the sixties and entering college in the 70's was a great time for car nuts until emission laws and insurance put a halt to all of the fun. But as much fun as that was this new HP race that we are all enjoying is pretty great too! After the 450/460HP 454's of the 70's were killed off I never imagined being where we are today. Ford and Chevy going head to head with incredibly high horsepower numbers. Cadillac has a 556HP car that blows the doors off of German counterparts. The Hemi is returning with a vengeance and the world is trying to catch up with what America is building. Ford announced today that their 2013 GT500 will be making an estimated 620HP, just a few horsepower less than the mighty ZR1 Corvette at 632HP. In the 60's, 600HP cars were were full blown race cars, not something that you went to your Ford or Chevy dealer and picked out a color. Enjoy theses days because they are the good old days returned with a lot more horsepower. Enjoy them because they will not last forever. The government just does not like us having this much fun!
You couldn't drive a 600 horsepower car in those days on the street without tuning them as much as refilling them at the gas station. However - those cars had character, and it was a lot more unlikely to find the exact two cars in the same town as it is now. 100K powertrain warranties and everything that comes with the newer cars just amaze me. Shoot - those 450 horsepower cars were "only" making in the mid-to-upper 300s by todays standards; some even less. I will enjoy every opportunity I have because I know this isn't going to last forever, and likely won't be returning in my lifetime.

GREAT POST!!!
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:24 PM   #130
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I would agree w/ a little prospective. in the 70's you could drive a 600 hp big block w/ open headers and the cops would tell you to knock it off or tell you to go home. I have a few friends that are a little older that tell stories that make me laugh, but no way you would get off that easy today. The other thing fuel was not as pricey (even when you compare COLA) as today and you could basically buy race fuel at your average fuel station. 110 octane was common (premium leaded). One reason 12:1 compression was not uncommon in the 60-early70's.

The other part is how cars are designed. My 67 Nova put down 420 at the crank and will scare the "S" out of you when you shift into second and the rear tires spin so hard that the car drift sideways and forces you to lift just enough to get the rear end seated again. Our 2010 little more power by 6 hp feels more in control and stable. I think that as technology advaces it has made cars better and your able to push the hp numbers up and still have a very safe and stable car. With all that yes the hp wars are back.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:29 PM   #131
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Wow - I miss some threads -- and frankly, I may have already posted in this one - (if I did - sorry!)

Let's take a walk, shall we --------------down memory lane.


There was this engine called the LT1 -- and it ruled the street - and THEN there was the LS1 - and how many years did it take Mustang to finally build an engine that could compete?

And THEN there's this thing called the Z06 and another called the ZR1..........


Remember: The Mustang is Ford's Performance car - we have some lethal weapons in the Camaro and Corvette............

So - in terms of GM being out front?

I'd say we've been out-front since - oh - say - 1990 with the ZR1..............


And with all of that said: WE are never finished............
INDEED! The 93-02 FBodies alone made Ford look like chumps when it came to performance thru those years. Even the 05-10 Mustang GT's were slower than the discontinued LS1 FBodies.
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:36 PM   #132
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GrnMchin, my first hot rod was a 67 Nova SS 327/350. I put in a bigger cam, Edelbrock manifold and 780 Holley. Swapped the Powerglide for a Turbo 400 and Hurst Bang shifter and changed the rear gears to 3.73's. The big problem was the drum brakes all around. I put Lakewood metallic shoes all around which helped stopping the car once they warmed up but they squealed a lot. But the car was 2800 pounds and a very consistent bracket racer that I drove to work and school every day. It was a really nice fun daily driver.
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:21 PM   #133
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GrnMchin, my first hot rod was a 67 Nova SS 327/350. I put in a bigger cam, Edelbrock manifold and 780 Holley. Swapped the Powerglide for a Turbo 400 and Hurst Bang shifter and changed the rear gears to 3.73's. The big problem was the drum brakes all around. I put Lakewood metallic shoes all around which helped stopping the car once they warmed up but they squealed a lot. But the car was 2800 pounds and a very consistent bracket racer that I drove to work and school every day. It was a really nice fun daily driver.
Very cool.
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:39 PM   #134
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GrnMchin, my first hot rod was a 67 Nova SS 327/350. I put in a bigger cam, Edelbrock manifold and 780 Holley. Swapped the Powerglide for a Turbo 400 and Hurst Bang shifter and changed the rear gears to 3.73's. The big problem was the drum brakes all around. I put Lakewood metallic shoes all around which helped stopping the car once they warmed up but they squealed a lot. But the car was 2800 pounds and a very consistent bracket racer that I drove to work and school every day. It was a really nice fun daily driver.
I had several friends back in the day that had fine running Novas. That SS 327/350hp was a nice package to start from.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:58 PM   #135
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GrnMchin, my first hot rod was a 67 Nova SS 327/350. I put in a bigger cam, Edelbrock manifold and 780 Holley. Swapped the Powerglide for a Turbo 400 and Hurst Bang shifter and changed the rear gears to 3.73's. The big problem was the drum brakes all around. I put Lakewood metallic shoes all around which helped stopping the car once they warmed up but they squealed a lot. But the car was 2800 pounds and a very consistent bracket racer that I drove to work and school every day. It was a really nice fun daily driver.
Sounds close to what mine is. I have a built 355/TH350 running 4:10 in a built 12 bolt. W/SSM trac bars. On street tire it spins well into second, but want some DR after the sub frame get connected (low on my to to list at the moment).
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Old 03-19-2011, 05:11 PM   #136
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Sounds close to what mine is. I have a built 355/TH350 running 4:10 in a built 12 bolt. W/SSM trac bars. On street tire it spins well into second, but want some DR after the sub frame get connected (low on my to to list at the moment).
You have a very cool ride, take care of her. I did add one personal item to my car while I had her. I swapped out the black seats and put in white Swivel Buckets from a Monte Carlo in the front and a white bench seat from a Buick in the back. It made a nice contrast with the black carpeting.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:19 PM   #137
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None of the Camaros require a GG tax
Thats the reason the l99's have afm and the ls3's have 1-4 skip shift; to avoid gg tax
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:46 PM   #138
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Yup, Gotta 425HP big block Tri-Carb Olds 455ci that will make you change your pants and the SS makes you feel in control! Kinda like it BOTH ways. Of course, the big block has over 500ft/lbs of fun going for it.

I hate to say it, but the HP wars will end soon.... too soon. History repeats itself.

Burn 'em if you got 'em!
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:00 AM   #139
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Whats the GG tax nowadays? That's a joke... No need to answer...
GG tax... pushing people to the used market since inception.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:27 PM   #140
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I think this info is very promising.......to say the least.....could it be called something else for production.....maybe..maybe not?!


Camaro 1LE Concept

Born in the Camaro’s third generation and refined further in the fourth generation as a road-racing performance package, the legendary 1LE option code designation returns to the Camaro as a concept intended to carve up road courses. While only a concept, it borrows production components from both the Camaro SS and forthcoming Camaro ZL1 to deliver a competition-ready package. Hash mark graphics on the front fender are pure Chevrolet racing cues, too.

Vehicle highlights:

Victory Red exterior color, with flat black hood and hash mark extensions
Satin black splitter, rocker panels, rear spoiler and outside mirrors
Sport suspension featuring Magnetic Ride Control
Electric power steering
Six-speed manual close-ratio transmission
Lightweight 20x10-inch (front) and 20x11-inch (rear) racing wheels (satin black)
Goodyear® Eagle F1 Supercar G asymmetrical tires (from the ZL1)
Brembo® six-piston front calipers, with two-piece front rotors, and four-piston rear calipers (Chevrolet Official Licensed Product)
Dual exhaust outlets with ZL1-style active exhaust and diffuser
Shock tower brace
Chevrolet Accessories red engine cover
Black leather interior with Light Stone stitching
Graphite Silver door and instrument panel inserts
ZL1 shifter with Light Stone stitching
ZL1 flat-bottom steering wheel
Chevrolet Accessories pedal kit
“The Camaro 1LE concept is all about the track,” said Al Oppenheiser, chief engineer for the Camaro. “It’s an all-out race car package that pays tribute to that special option from the past.”
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:32 PM   #141
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When did BIG Al make this statement?
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:46 PM   #142
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I found this info in the press release from gm here.

http://media.gm.com/content/media/us...7_semaconcepts
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:54 PM   #143
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I think this info is very promising.......to say the least.....could it be called something else for production.....maybe..maybe not?!
If they built that package that would easily be my favorite Camaro model.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:01 PM   #144
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I found this info in the press release from gm here.

http://media.gm.com/content/media/us...7_semaconcepts
I never knew about these special projects
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:26 PM   #145
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I would love to see this LS 376/480 engine as the 1LE or Z/28, whatever it's name will be, just my thought. Maybe emissions validations would not be needed since it is a crate engine LS3 with a hotter cam that is a whole lot cheaper than an LS7.

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...1224&engCat=ls
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:48 PM   #146
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Maybe emissions validations would not be needed since it is a crate engine LS3 with a hotter cam
Ummm...I don't think it works quite like that... In fact, being a crate-only engine poses all manner of issues. Like it's NOT validated for OEM use. The criteria for a 36/36 GMPP warranty, and a 60/100 GM New Vehicle warranty, are at varience... More hoops 'n hurdles to RPO the "hot" LS3 than the LS7.

If you call your GMPP dealer, you'll find the "net" difference for the "hot" LS3 and the LS7 is under $7-grand, in the crate, yet the LS7 is already-to-go...and I, for one, will gladly pony up the extra.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:08 PM   #147
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I would like to see the LS7 used also but I figured the cost would be too much to bear.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:10 PM   #148
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I never knew about these special projects
Mr. Innocence!!
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:18 PM   #149
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I would like to see the LS7 used also but I figured the cost would be too much to bear.
Well, let's pretend for a moment Ford has TWO price points for their BOSS...with a $7,000 spread...

And let's also pretend that Camaro MIGHT try the same...

An LS3 with the 1LE goodies...called, ah what the hell...1LE

...and the BOSS LS annihilator, at an equal extra $7-Gs, with an LS7...

But what, boyz and girlz, will we call THAT one?!

"Oh, I know!!"

Yes, Mary?

"How about the BOZZ?"

Oh Mary, I don't think that would be appropriate...

"Well then, can we pleaze-pleaze-pleaze call it ZEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 28?!"

Why yes, Mary, I think we can...
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:29 PM   #150
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Well, let's pretend for a moment Ford has TWO price points for their BOSS...with a $7,000 spread...

And let's also pretend that Camaro MIGHT try the same...

An LS3 with the 1LE goodies...called, ah what the hell...1LE

...and the BOSS LS annihilator, at an equal extra $7-Gs, with an LS7...

But what, boyz and girlz, will we call THAT one?!

"Oh, I know!!"

Yes, Mary?

"How about the BOZZ?"

Oh Mary, I don't think that would be appropriate...

"Well then, can we pleaze-pleaze-pleaze call it ZEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 28?!"

Why yes, Mary, I think we can...
I like the way you think!
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