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Old 02-28-2011, 09:37 AM   #1
NoynuR
 
Drives: 2008 M3 ESS Supercharged 650Hp
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Couple of thoughts here

I want to do a couple of things to my car. i want to start with some suspension work i already have pfadt lowering springs, but i want more. Thinking of getting front and rear sways and a strut brace. But im also in the process of blacking my car out so i need some help finding, flat black tail bezels, i want to black out bowties, painting rotors black? Is that safe? painting calipers black also. What kind of paint etc?
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:05 AM   #2
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Sways are a must for this car. The OEM ones are WAY too small. You'll notice the benefits as soon as you make a corner. Strut bar doesn't really add much unless you're a hardcore roadracer or just like the look.

Blackout is just a search away. There are many people that have blacked out their cars here, me included. If you search for blackout, you should get quite a few hits that may/maynot help you. The bowties can be done a number of ways. Paint, vinyl, or replacements. Vinyl seems to be the most common and cheapest way out. Tail light bezels are easy but it's time consuming. There are a few tutorials in the DIY section. Choosing the paint is up to you. Stores offer many brands with different finishes. You don't paint your rotors. As soon as you apply the brakes it will be gone. Calipers are just a matter of pulling them off, cleaning them up and painting them. A few vendors offer powder coating in a exchange program. Much more durable and IMO, look nicer. It's more expensive though. If you want to black out running lights and/or tail lights, you can add tint to them or have them spray tinted. GTO offers some tinted covers but IMO they look cheap. You may like them though.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:53 PM   #3
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Thanks for already purchasing our lowering springs! You're definitely on the right track, sway bars would be a great next step in the progress of your vehicle. The extra roll stiffness we engineered into our sport sway bars really does make a big difference with these cars, transforming a vehicle with a tendency to heavily understeer into a vehicle with much more neutral handling characteristics. Here is a video from testing on our Camaro 5 demonstrating this difference. As you can see the car after having the sways installed is much more balanced, and much more fun to drive!

Our rear bar on the Sport sway package is adjustable as well, which enables you to dial in or out stiffness in the rear. This adjustment in the rear is key to balancing the car to your own personal driving preference.



As far as the strut tower goes, we feel that this is absolutely a worthwhile upgrade as the chassis does flex under hard cornering and while being twisted coming out of driveways. We setup a camera underhood to demonstrate how much deflection is actually present. Adding the strut tower bar will contribute to an overall solid feel to your car and prevent small alignment issues as one strut tower moves independently from the other, all without any additional Noise/Vibration/Harshness. GM feels this is a worthwhile addition to the car as well, as evidenced by inclusion of a strut tower brace on the upcoming ZL1.



If you have any more questions please feel free to contact us!
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:37 PM   #4
JusticePete
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Were it my car I would put my money into bushes over arms, coilovers over sway bars and only add sway bars as a final tuning element. Oh, wait a minute. That is exactly what I did.



The low hanging fruit on the 5th Gen is found in the rear sub-frame and front radius bushes. The sub-frame bushes allow significant movement of the IRS assembly and creates rear end step out. Some describe this as a jittery feeling in turns. Up front the OE hydraulic radius bushes compress and create unwanted castor changes. Both are easily addressed by supplementing the OE rubber bushes with urethane inserts of full bush replacement.

Your 5th gen is no different than build a house. It needs a solid foundation. Maybe a better analogy is erecting a fence. If your fence posts are set in Jello (OE rubber bushes in the sub-frame and radius arms) no matter what you do to the rest of the fence it won't be solid.

Sway bars are the final tuning element for a 5th Gen or any other car. You can't get the best out of aftermarket bars until the foundational elements have been addressed. You can read more about the 5th Gen and Suspension modifications in this thread 5th Gen Suspension THE BOOK. Start with the low hanging fruit (sub-frame and radius bushes).

Rear Sub-Frame Forward Bush / Bolt Area


Rear Sub-Frame Rear Bush / Bolt / Locating Post


The large bush in the right of these two pictures have a ferule that fits over the Locating Post. This not only centers the sub-frame, but anchors it much as a weld would to the monocoque. The movement in the rear sub-frame is relative to the voids in the the OEM rubber bushes. If the voids are filled with urethane inserts or the OE bushes replaced with higher durometer full urethane, movement of the rear sub-frame is virtually eliminated.




These videos show Pedders 5th Gen on stock arms and no aftermarket chassis braces.





At the 2010 Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge Mark Stielow won the overall competition. He came in second on the road course (Spring Mountain) with a ridiculous time of 1:48. The video above showing Paul Tracy posting a 1:50 behind the heel of the Pedders USA 5th at the Optima Challenge in 2009. You can see that still slots in as the 3rd fastest car in a spectacular field. Pedders Camaro run on OE arms without any chassis or strut tower braces.



Get your sub-frame and radius bushes addressed and follow you black out plan. Any future modifications will perform better with the foundation in place.
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoynuR View Post
I want to do a couple of things to my car. i want to start with some suspension work i already have pfadt lowering springs, but i want more. Thinking of getting front and rear sways and a strut brace. But im also in the process of blacking my car out so i need some help finding, flat black tail bezels, i want to black out bowties, painting rotors black? Is that safe? painting calipers black also. What kind of paint etc?
A set of Pfadt Sport Adjustable sway bars will compliment your springs nicely and bring a lot more balance to you car's handling. Typically this is where I would post a video of the Pfadt Stage 2 but the good man from Pfadt already did that.

We have some black out parts on our website but you can do a lot of it yourself.
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by NoynuR View Post
...painting rotors black? Is that safe? painting calipers black also. What kind of paint etc?
Painting the rotor would not be safe. The brake pads would foul with the paint. You can paint the rotor 'hat' but you cannot paint the rotor.

The best option for the caliper is to have it powder coated black with a clear gloss. The second best option would be to use high temperature paint. If you really drive hard, no matter what you use to finish the rotors, they will discolor from heat.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
At the 2010 Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge Mark Stielow won the overall competition. He came in second on the road course (Spring Mountain) with a ridiculous time of 1:48. The video above showing Paul Tracy posting a 1:50 behind the heel of the Pedders USA 5th at the Optima Challenge in 2009. You can see that still slots in as the 3rd fastest car in a spectacular field. Pedders Camaro run on OE arms without any chassis or strut tower braces.




Painting the rotor would not be safe. The brake pads would foul with the paint. You can paint the rotor 'hat' but you cannot paint the rotor.

The best option for the caliper is to have it powder coated black with a clear gloss. The second best option would be to use high temperature paint. If you really drive hard, no matter what you use to finish the rotors, they will discolor from heat.
Wasn't that also before you had the brakes, fuel system and tune, Supercar Coilovers, and other stuff taken care of too?

As for the rotors, if you want to get black rotors your best option if new rotors that have the black coating on them already, if your interested in these let me know and i can help with those.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:02 PM   #8
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heres a couple pics of me on the track yesterday

consistent 39's
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:11 PM   #9
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i'd show you pics of my car yesterday, but it would involve ice, snow, and salt.....

damn i miss the warmth, lol
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:14 AM   #10
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damn i miss the warmth, lol
AMEN!
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:17 AM   #11
JusticePete
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Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS View Post
Wasn't that also before you had the brakes, fuel system and tune, Supercar Coilovers, and other stuff taken care of too?

As for the rotors, if you want to get black rotors your best option if new rotors that have the black coating on them already, if your interested in these let me know and i can help with those.
Our Optima Challenge time was set on SS brakes and Xa coilovers. We have since upgraded to CTS-V brakes and Supercar coilovers. Additionally, heat soak was so bad the computer was pulling time out at the expense of RWHP. That was addressed with a Stage II ProCharger intercooler and a number of thermal management techniques. At Gingerman with the updates the car was two seconds faster. How much faster we would be at Spring Mountain with the new setup is just an educated guess, but my guess is we would be in a dead heat with Mark.

Btw, Mark is running ZR1 Carbon ceramic brakes with the computer corrected for optimal bias and abs function. He is an excellent driver with a weapon for a car.

Next up, the Pedders USA ZL1. Here is a . We expect our ZL1 based project car to be faster than our SS
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:31 PM   #12
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So if i wanted to do stage 3 but already have the springs, what would the pricing look like? Could we maybe swap the springs for a strut brace tower?
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:47 PM   #13
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PM sent. Thanks for keeping us in mind on your future upgrades!
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:31 PM   #14
JusticePete
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i'd show you pics of my car yesterday, but it would involve ice, snow, and salt.....

damn i miss the warmth, lol
I feel your pain. We still have a foot of snow in the yard.
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