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Old 03-03-2011, 01:43 AM   #1
2010_BumbleBee
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Talking Suspension types and reasons..

I know it's probably here in the millions of threads, BUT I want to see some feedback on the different types of suspension packages. IE... BMR PFADT PEDDERS etc..

What do you recommend and why? Chime in REP's, your info is valuable also....

I want to lower, a little, and upgrade the the drivability of the car. NOT turning it into a race car, but a better performing driver.

I was looking at the PFADT stage 3, but $2000 seems a little much. Also considering BMR... Springs, Sway's and EL's and maybe sub-frame's?

Thanx for your input....
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:26 AM   #2
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We have set up many 5th generation Camaro owners with Pfadt and BMR components and packages with great success. Both offer very high quality products that do exactly what they advertise. We offer 12 suspension packages on our website to take the guess work out of the equation for our customers but we often assemble custom packages to help our customers get the best bang for their buck possible. Feel free to hit me up and if you would like to discuss your application and what would work best for you.
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:36 AM   #3
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I always try to speak to the person who is buy if possible. I like to do more of a specific catering to the individual. Ask what are their goals for the car? What will they be using the car for? I also like to go over the pro and con's of the upgrades they are purchasing.

From what i understand your looking for a slight upgrade to the stock performance. Something very street-able but good fun on the on ramps. I would start out with Sway bars and some springs. If that just isn't enough then i would get a set of bushings. That will tighten it up a bit more. If your going to hit the track every now and then , trailing arms and toe links would be next.

Thats just a quick response. Fell free to pm me or call me to go over pricing or more specifics of what you could do.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:03 AM   #4
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I always went with BMR. Great tech support and great customer service if any issues.

On my 2kTA had a bent pan rod bar from BMR. They shipped a new one out before the old one went back.

Never had an issue with their stuff for the past 8 years and 3 cars.
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:11 AM   #5
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For around $1000 you can get a really solid start with a good foundation for what your looking for! I purchased the BMR Level 1 kit which is 1" lowering springs and front & rear sway bars. I also added the BMR subframe inserts, Pedders front radius rod inserts, BMR end links and BMR trailing arms. I have yet to install everything so I haven't been able to try it all out! I just followed the advise from Pedders and BMR who I think would both agree to start with this setup for a good foundation. If you decide to race then the next thing would be bushings and maybe coilovers in place of the springs.
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:41 AM   #6
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I honestly think for the price and availability it is hard to beat our stuff. On most orders we ship the same days and if not it is not more than a couple days to get the stuff built and shipped to you. The BMR springs and BMR sway bars will make the biggest difference as far as overall performance goes and while you are down there you might as well do the endlinks since you will already have them off. The subframes are also a good idea but if you decide to do them I would do the driveshaft tunnel brace at the same time. What do you have for rear suspension components? There are quite a few things you can do in the rear to really help tighten the car up.
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:03 AM   #7
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What does the driveshaft tunnel brace do and why is it needed when doing subframe inserts?
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ssmike View Post
What does the driveshaft tunnel brace do and why is it needed when doing subframe inserts?
I didn't mean the subframe inserts, I meant the actual subframe connectors. It is good to do the tunnel brace together with the subframe connectors because you are there and have to modify the stock tunnel if you decide to use it. Plus it is only $90 extra and and it helps tie everything together for extra rigidity over the stock tunnel brace.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:18 AM   #9
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It sounds like you're looking to get a lot of work done at the same time. Our stage 3 package was specifically designed with street use and HPDE's in mind and is a fantastic package for those who don't mind a more aggressive ride with some adjustability built in.

That being said, you might want to look into our stage 2 package which includes the drop springs and the sway bars. The bars and springs were engineered to work together and still maintain excellent ride quality. For your application I think these will accomplish everything your looking for, without any trade offs in streetability. If after the install of the springs and sways you're still looking to address specific issues such as wheel hop, trailing arms or solid subframe bushings can be ordered then.

If you've got any questions let us know!
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:18 PM   #10
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everyone has there own ideas and such for me pedders is the way to go, there daily driver packages are outstanding, the main thing that sold me on them is there history and there development in austraila i know there roads arent the best from what i hear so its much like ny so i feel they will handle better plus i like there attention to comfort as well as preformance
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010_BumbleBee View Post
I want to lower, a little, and upgrade the the drivability of the car. NOT turning it into a race car, but a better performing driver.

...but $2000 seems a little much.

...maybe sub-frame's?

Thanx for your input....
There is no maybe about sub-frame bush upgrades. They are a foundational component of the 5th Gen suspension. The IRS shifts under loads causing a jittery rear end also known as rear end step out. Nothing corrects rear end step out but sub-frame inserts or full sub-frame bush replacements. Adding sway only makes rear end step out worse unless the sub-frame bushes have been addressed. The same is true for better wheels and tires, coils or increases in RWHP. Foundation, foundation and foundation. For a daily driver that you don't want to turn into a race car inserts are the best path.

Next on the list has to be the front radius arm bushes. These are hydraulically damped and allow unwanted changes in dynamic castor. As you drive down the road in your bone stock 5th Gen you can actually feel this as you traverse the freeze thaw joints. It is a very subtle, very slight shudder in the steering wheel. We can correct that with full bushes or inserts. For a daily driver that you don't want to turn into a race car inserts are the best path.

Now for the lowering. My guess is that the lowering is as much for looks as it is the handling. Either way, daily driver ride quality is essential. Of course Pedders has lowering coils and they delivers the look and improved handling. Having typed that there is no company that makes a set of lowering coils that ride as well as OE including Pedders. HOWEVER, for less than the $2,000 mentioned in your OP you can have the benefits of a Street Xa package.

Pedders coilovers adjust height by screwing into or out of the lower mount. This preserves what GM call jounce travel. Jounce travel directly relates to ride comfort. With Pedders Xa coilovers you will have the same level of ride quality at close to OE height or dropped on the ground. The damping is adjustable and matched to the coil rates. It is fixed ratio bound and rebound adjustment. Set to two or three clicks off full soft you'll have a ride that some describe as better than OE. At two or three clicks off full hard you'll have a track ready suspension.

Included in the Xa Street kit are the sub-frame and radius bush inserts you need for your 5th Gen foundation. With the alignment bolt kit you'll be able to add castor for quicker return to center of your steering wheel, front camber adjustment is made easy with the included camber screws and you'll be able to adjust the camber on your lowered Camaro to half the front camber reducing understeer and improving rear tire life.

Coilovers
Sub-frame Inserts
Radius Bush Inserts
Full Alignment Capability

There is no better value for a 5th Gen suspension kit. The only remaining elements are sway bars and differential bushes. Do you really need them with a Street Xa kit installed. My answer for a daily driver would be no. Out of the showroom the 5th Gen ran the 'Ring' faster than some legendary European 'great handling' cars. The ZETA II chassis is an excellent one. In reality you don't need any suspension upgrades, but we all want more. It is the American way. I am so confident that you will be thrilled with your Street Xa kit on your 5th Gen I will guarantee it. If you are not thrilled with it I'll refund your money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kook View Post
I just drove my car 50 miles home from Raymonds Alignment in Plainfield, IN after getting the Pedders XA coilovers and some bushings. I must say that the ride is nice. It rides better than stock and is 2" lowered. Thanks to Bruce and Pete for selling me on this at the World of Wheels. I will post pictures later tonight.
If the Street Xa kit is more than you are willing to spend we start with the Street I sub-frame and radius bush inserts. This covers the foundation of your 5th Gen. A set of Pedders lowering coils would be next. If you have some left over cash we can add a sway bar package. Or we could make it really cost effective as we did with JProberts. Sub-frame inserts and a front bar. JProberts later added Pedders lowering coils.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JProberts View Post
I had the rear sub-frame inserts installed yesterday by TandT and Tim and crew did a stand-up job at a reasonable price again and had my car ready for me after I played a round of golf....note to all golfers - do not "F" with P.B. Dye course unless you are man enough to take a beating and not quit golf!!!

Back to the car, Pete was correct in that the sub-frame inserts made a huge difference in the cars handling and feel over the rough roads. The rear of the car feels more like the front of the car now, no rear end step out on the nasty bumps on the twisties in Rock creek park on the way to work. Car stayed planted instead of hopping too one side or the other when taking those curves today.

Had a chance to get on it on the highway a bit on the way home from TandT and of course some douche bag on acell phone glids across the lanes right in front of me and I had to break hard and switch lanes real quick and it was quite surprising how good the car felt during hard breaking, and when I switched lanes the car moved like it was on rails! No lean either way and the car just seems so much more responsive now, especially the rear end after the sub fram inserts...it was improved with just the front sway bar but the handling and ride is 10x better after the sub-frame inserts.

To sum it up the Pedders rear sub-frame inserts, front sway bar and end links got my car to where I wanted it to be: improved handling, less roll or lean on highways and on twisties, more responsive and planted during spirited driving on streets and better ride quality on bumpy roads. At this point I don't really feel like the car needs anything else to improve the suspension for my driving desires.

Yeah I could add the rear sway also but what will that add to my car for daily driving needs? Now if Pete decides to send me the rear sway bar and end links for free I wouldn't turn it down but in all honesty I can say that the set-up I have now got me what I wanted and I am 100% satisfied.

Thanks Pete for taking the time and putting forth the efforts to prove the points that you made about your products. Everything you suggested seems right on point so far and I cannot argue with the results of adding the front sway bar only and the rear sub-frame inserts. I will let you know if I notice anything different after driving it for an extended time but at this point I would have to give you and Pedders a big

Thanks JP
You'll find the full thread here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98362

May I also suggest you read the 5th Gen Suspension Book. You have a lot of options that are all cost effective. Let's makes certain you spend your mod money only on parts that are important to you and your driving style. Let me know if you have any additional questions.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:30 PM   #12
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Thanks robsls3 and ssmike for sharing your experience and opinions about our products. We can toot our own horns all day long but it's the customers feedback that really puts things into perspective!
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
There is no maybe about sub-frame bush upgrades. They are a foundational component of the 5th Gen suspension. The IRS shifts under loads causing a jittery rear end also known as rear end step out. Nothing corrects rear end step out but sub-frame inserts or full sub-frame bush replacements. Adding sway only makes rear end step out worse unless the sub-frame bushes have been addressed. The same is true for better wheels and tires, coils or increases in RWHP. Foundation, foundation and foundation. For a daily driver that you don't want to turn into a race car inserts are the best path.

Next on the list has to be the front radius arm bushes. These are hydraulically damped and allow unwanted changes in dynamic castor. As you drive down the road in your bone stock 5th Gen you can actually feel this as you traverse the freeze thaw joints. It is a very subtle, very slight shudder in the steering wheel. We can correct that with full bushes or inserts. For a daily driver that you don't want to turn into a race car inserts are the best path.

Now for the lowering. My guess is that the lowering is as much for looks as it is the handling. Either way, daily driver ride quality is essential. Of course Pedders has lowering coils and they delivers the look and improved handling. Having typed that there is no company that makes a set of lowering coils that ride as well as OE including Pedders. HOWEVER, for less than the $2,000 mentioned in your OP you can have the benefits of a Street Xa package.

Pedders coilovers adjust height by screwing into or out of the lower mount. This preserves what GM call jounce travel. Jounce travel directly relates to ride comfort. With Pedders Xa coilovers you will have the same level of ride quality at close to OE height or dropped on the ground. The damping is adjustable and matched to the coil rates. It is fixed ratio bound and rebound adjustment. Set to two or three clicks off full soft you'll have a ride that some describe as better than OE. At two or three clicks off full hard you'll have a track ready suspension.

Included in the Xa Street kit are the sub-frame and radius bush inserts you need for your 5th Gen foundation. With the alignment bolt kit you'll be able to add castor for quicker return to center of your steering wheel, front camber adjustment is made easy with the included camber screws and you'll be able to adjust the camber on your lowered Camaro to half the front camber reducing understeer and improving rear tire life.

Coilovers
Sub-frame Inserts
Radius Bush Inserts
Full Alignment Capability

There is no better value for a 5th Gen suspension kit. The only remaining elements are sway bars and differential bushes. Do you really need them with a Street Xa kit installed. My answer for a daily driver would be no. Out of the showroom the 5th Gen ran the 'Ring' faster than some legendary European 'great handling' cars. The ZETA II chassis is an excellent one. In reality you don't need any suspension upgrades, but we all want more. It is the American way. I am so confident that you will be thrilled with your Street Xa kit on your 5th Gen I will guarantee it. If you are not thrilled with it I'll refund your money.



If the Street Xa kit is more than you are willing to spend we start with the Street I sub-frame and radius bush inserts. This covers the foundation of your 5th Gen. A set of Pedders lowering coils would be next. If you have some left over cash we can add a sway bar package. Or we could make it really cost effective as we did with JProberts. Sub-frame inserts and a front bar. JProberts later added Pedders lowering coils.



You'll find the full thread here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98362

May I also suggest you read the 5th Gen Suspension Book. You have a lot of options that are all cost effective. Let's makes certain you spend your mod money only on parts that are important to you and your driving style. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

+1

Pete really is the go to guy for suspension advise! Pedders and Pfadt are both top notch for customer service and quality, but Pedders has them on a price point for the daily driver. Dont let the "price point' part fool you, they can and do compete with full on race cars and come out on top, at a good price with real streetability.
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:47 PM   #14
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+1 on the Pedders street xa pkg. I just got mine done last week and the stance and handling are awesome. I had differential bushes done as well and yes it was more money than I wanted to spend doing it, but Pete guaranteed it as he did to you and he was spot on. My car is lowered 2" all the way around with 275/40/20 and 305/35/20 tires, 20x9.5 front wheels, 20x11 rear Forgestar F14's. It rides and handles tons better than stock and no rubbing issues anywhere. I suggest a professional install as well to time the bushes and get the alignment correct. How could you go wrong if Pete is making the money back guarantee?
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:46 PM   #15
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Again Foundation, Foundation, Foundation, Subframe inserts are a must.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichJ. View Post
Again Foundation, Foundation, Foundation, Subframe inserts are a must.
Rich is a man of few words, but they are important words. He has been racing, prepping race cars and providing track side support for what 35 years. I have my personal car in his shop right now because I know the work will be flawless.
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010_BumbleBee View Post
I know it's probably here in the millions of threads, BUT I want to see some feedback on the different types of suspension packages. IE... BMR PFADT PEDDERS etc..

What do you recommend and why? Chime in REP's, your info is valuable also....

I want to lower, a little, and upgrade the the drivability of the car. NOT turning it into a race car, but a better performing driver.

I was looking at the PFADT stage 3, but $2000 seems a little much. Also considering BMR... Springs, Sway's and EL's and maybe sub-frame's?

Thanx for your input....
2010_BumbleBee,
We’ve had a lot of happy customers using our Track Pack, which includes Sport Springs, Sway Bars, and the Chassis Max Brace.



Here’s a video of the rear cradle movement before and after the installation of our Chassis Max Brace.


With the forum member discount or through some of our dealers you can get the kit at a great price. The Chassis Max Brace and sway bars are easy to install so you’ll cut down on the installation time.
Installation video:


We have three 5th gen H-Team members running full Hotchkis set ups and we've been having a great time prepping our own 2011 Camaro "F-11".

Hotchkis 2011 Track Day: Link
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mws444 View Post
+1

Pete really is the go to guy for suspension advise! Pedders and Pfadt are both top notch for customer service and quality, but Pedders has them on a price point for the daily driver. Dont let the "price point' part fool you, they can and do compete with full on race cars and come out on top, at a good price with real streetability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kook View Post
+1 on the Pedders street xa pkg. I just got mine done last week and the stance and handling are awesome. I had differential bushes done as well and yes it was more money than I wanted to spend doing it, but Pete guaranteed it as he did to you and he was spot on. My car is lowered 2" all the way around with 275/40/20 and 305/35/20 tires, 20x9.5 front wheels, 20x11 rear Forgestar F14's. It rides and handles tons better than stock and no rubbing issues anywhere. I suggest a professional install as well to time the bushes and get the alignment correct. How could you go wrong if Pete is making the money back guarantee?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichJ. View Post
Again Foundation, Foundation, Foundation, Subframe inserts are a must.
Thank You.

Thank You.

Spot on!
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010_BumbleBee View Post
I know it's probably here in the millions of threads, BUT I want to see some feedback on the different types of suspension packages. IE... BMR PFADT PEDDERS etc..

What do you recommend and why? Chime in REP's, your info is valuable also....

I want to lower, a little, and upgrade the the drivability of the car. NOT turning it into a race car, but a better performing driver.

I was looking at the PFADT stage 3, but $2000 seems a little much. Also considering BMR... Springs, Sway's and EL's and maybe sub-frame's?

Thanx for your input....
I did a lot of researching and went with BMR, I bought just about everything they have for our cars.. They have been around for a LONG time and i used to use their stuff on a TON of 4th gen camaro/firebirds i would work on.

Their bang for the buck is almost impossible to beat. Apex Chase hooke me up with all my stuff or you could go through BMR directly.

Like 2quick said, for you I would start with lowering springs and sway bars (BMR just happens to have a nice spring and sway bar package). Then go from there.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:16 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SUX2BU View Post
I did a lot of researching and went with BMR, I bought just about everything they have for our cars.. They have been around for a LONG time and i used to use their stuff on a TON of 4th gen camaro/firebirds i would work on.

Their bang for the buck is almost impossible to beat. Apex Chase hooke me up with all my stuff or you could go through BMR directly.

Like 2quick said, for you I would start with lowering springs and sway bars (BMR just happens to have a nice spring and sway bar package). Then go from there.
Congratulations. Enjoy your modified 5th Gen.
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