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Old 03-10-2011, 04:27 PM   #69
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radz28

Yup I think the Vette is one of the top performers as well, but the initial cost of the car and insurance seems to be were cars like the Boss are quickly gaining ground. Especially when they perform at or just below the Vette. I'm looking a the Grand Sport option in a few years, but 55K starting as apposed to 41k for the Boss has me looking at the opposition. The used market favors the Vette, because you can find some great deals on them, but not likely to find a used Boss (low and limited production)
Good points. Yeah - that insurance isn't nice, lol. That makes sense. It's hard to argue with the Boss if you just want to go fast. It's not going to be easy to find them use, just like you said
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:37 PM   #70
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There was alot that was changed, cams, forged internals, sodium valves... It shares the block, head castings, pistons and crank with the 5.0. I will look into it though and get back to you in detail.
awesome thank you! i like to learn more about other engines, not just what i own
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:37 PM   #71
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Good points. Yeah - that insurance isn't nice, lol. That makes sense. It's hard to argue with the Boss if you just want to go fast. It's not going to be easy to find them use, just like you said
Yup

I would love to get a Gran Sport (Looks BA), but with a family makes it hard w/ only two seats. I love the flexibility if I'm out for a cruise and I need to pick up the kid, of not having to change cars. I still have a few years before I going to buy another car and can hope that the Z28 or something similar is out.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:41 PM   #72
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Add me to the club. The Boss is impressive.....but it's not that impressive. I can't quite comprehend the hype...

It's a Mustang with a modest power bump, retuned suspension, and manual-adjustable shocks......Woooooooooo...... Ford has done to the Mustang what people around here have been doing to their Camaros since it came out....Naturally, I'm biased to a factory package, and for that I give them credit, but

IMVHO....the Boss is as much a product of Ford's excellently persuasive PR and marketing people as it is a product of their performance division.

I've said it before and haven't wavered; Nurburgring times are, at best, purely entertainment because there is no governing body that oversees the runs. However -- it is one of a very few road courses that measure a cars entire potential with a myriad of long straights, moderate sweepers, and super-tight turns....Will most of us ever be able to race there? No....but I'd be curious to see that time...


No it wasn't.
Are you just ignoring the fully forged reciprocating assembly, upgraded valvetrain and all the other upgrades or do you not know about them? You get a LOT of upgrades for the extra money. The boss is a purpose built race car made street legal. You could run that thing WOT until it ran out of gas and not worry about a thing. It's not just a few simple upgrades. This is a track day car straight from the factory, not just a gt with adjustable coilovers and an intake manifold. As for the solid axle, well that's far from the limiting factor when properly dialed in on the track. Ford does very well in multiple racing circuits with the 302r which still has the sra.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:00 PM   #73
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I'm sorry you're feeling frustrated and think everyone else is ignorant because they didn't travel the world. I'm sorry it looks to me like M3's interior is better than your ultimate car. I'm not making the comparison; Ford is.

I didn't see a back seat, nav', leather, and many other amenities; I looked at the website.
Sorry bud, didn't mean to come off as an @$$. The Boss LS has the rear seat delete, No leather and nav is not available.

Quote:
Yes - that video, and if you followed along that whole story, you would've read the 'Stang had a problem with suspension travel and the SS had bad heat-soak problems and wasn't making the same power on the track it would at the dyno'. Regardless - that heavier car with IRS still hung with the lighter Mustang.
Pete called me to set up a quote, he said that they lowered the Mustang too much and it didn't allow the axle to move. They raised the car after that, allowing the axle to work better. Both the 6.2 and 4.6 was supercharged, I read the LS3 was having problems but im sure the 4.6 got alittle soaked too.

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Perhaps you should re-read some posts because all I've said is compare apples-to-apples. If you want to talk about a race car, compare it to another. If you're strictly looking for performance - fine; but not everyone only considers performance - some people want a complete package. However - don't deminish those points if you want to enter a conversation. No one like a one-sided conversation. Otherwise - maybe some Boss fanboys will welcome your knowledge, because, frankly, I'm done reading it. I conceed to your sarcasm... LET'S ALL BUY BOSS's BECAUSE 'Pill APPROVES!!!
The standard Boss does not have Nav, No leather (better for track), rear seat delete is the Laguna Seca option and no telescopic steering wheel (V6 and GT too).

The Mustang and M3 are bred for performance, the M3 didn't carry over the luxury options until 2008. When the Z28 comes out, I would hope that it eliminates some of the interior options that are not needed for a vehicle based solely on performance. Again, sorry for the sarcasm... I am really proud that an American car is meeting the M3 head on and hurting it where it counts most..

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Old 03-10-2011, 05:00 PM   #74
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Are you just ignoring the fully forged reciprocating assembly, upgraded valvetrain and all the other upgrades or do you not know about them? You get a LOT of upgrades for the extra money. The boss is a purpose built race car made street legal. You could run that thing WOT until it ran out of gas and not worry about a thing. It's not just a few simple upgrades. This is a track day car straight from the factory, not just a gt with adjustable coilovers and an intake manifold. As for the solid axle, well that's far from the limiting factor when properly dialed in on the track. Ford does very well in multiple racing circuits with the 302r which still has the sra.
That 5.0 is really a marvel. Doesn't it CNC'd heads, too?
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:11 PM   #75
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Sorry bud, didn't mean to come off as an @$$. The Boss LS has the rear seat delete, leather and nav is not available.

Pete called me to set up a quote, he said that they lowered the Mustang too much and it didn't allow the axle to move. They raised the car after that, allowing the axle to work better. Both the 6.2 and 4.6 was supercharged, I read the LS3 was having problems but im sure the 4.6 got alittle soaked too.

The standard Boss does not have Nav, No leather (better for track), rear seat delete is the Laguna Seca option and no telescopic steering wheel (V6 and GT too).

The Mustang and M3 are bred for performance, the M3 didn't carry over the luxury options until 2008. When the Z28 comes out, I would hope that it eliminates some of the interior options that are not needed for a vehicle based solely on performance. Again, sorry for the sarcasm... I am really proud that an American car is meeting the M3 head on and hurting it where it counts most..
It's only the LS, no? I kept trying to find the rest of the content, so I could compare to the GT, but didn't have much luck or time

That was exactly what I was talking about, regarding Pete's cars. He was showcasing Pedders full catalog on both cars, so I'm suer they were driven to the edge. In the video, it just sounds like the GT didn't pull all the power down because it sounded like the driver was getting in-and-out of the throttle in some corners more than SS. I wasn't watching the pedal indicator, and maybe the audio was bad It just seemed to put the power down better, and from what Pete had posted, the power between the two was almost the same, considering the soak. Still - SS managed to keep up - just barely.

to your last paragraph. Please let me say again that I'm not trying to take anything away from the Boss. I think it's a great car. I think I have more of a problem with the marketing - that's all. I agree with your comments regarding Z28, too. Because I'm sure they will have to trim as much mass as they can, I think that IRS will help the handling. The Boss is tuned absolutely great, and Z28 is going to have to bring everything to the table for a good showing.

I'm glad we have this passion. I think it's people like us who keep the war going, and push GM and Ford to work harder and harder to give us better and better cars to brawl with I'd like to say I'd look forward to meeting you on a track some day, but I have a feeling you'd POWN me pretty good, LOL
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:16 PM   #76
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That 5.0 is really a marvel. Doesn't it CNC'd heads, too?
I and E ports along with the combustion chamber, different cams, intake manifold, forged rods, pistons, oil system is redesigned, etc. It's the same engine in the 302r grand am car.

As a street car, the gt500 and I'm assuming the zl1 will have the boss beat, but on the track it's going to be tough to compare. If you're a club guy, you'll see these cars running things all day long on track days. It's built to take endless beatings and I have a feeling when we see forced induction on these cars they will be absolutely insane. I doubt these are going to be DDs for most owners. This car is so fast around the track because every other car is first and foremost, a street car whether it's designed to perform well or not. Handling characteristics and power delivery are dialed in to be comfortable, forgiving, and useful. The Boss is a track car first, street car second and it's dialed in to put down lap times.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:33 PM   #77
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I and E ports along with the combustion chamber, different cams, intake manifold, forged rods, pistons, oil system is redesigned, etc. It's the same engine in the 302r grand am car.

As a street car, the gt500 and I'm assuming the zl1 will have the boss beat, but on the track it's going to be tough to compare. If you're a club guy, you'll see these cars running things all day long on track days. It's built to take endless beatings and I have a feeling when we see forced induction on these cars they will be absolutely insane. I doubt these are going to be DDs for most owners. This car is so fast around the track because every other car is first and foremost, a street car whether it's designed to perform well or not. Handling characteristics and power delivery are dialed in to be comfortable, forgiving, and useful. The Boss is a track car first, street car second and it's dialed in to put down lap times.
It's pretty cool. We were seeing that stuff, though, 5-years ago on Z06. Pistons weren't forged, but it had some really good bits in there. 7200 RPM shutoff for a OHV V8? Not too bad, either.

Yeah - I'm not really thinking ZL1 will keep up with the Boss on a track. Perhaps it would be close, or if the track lended itself toward more power, but we'll have to wait and see. These are going to be the Cobra Rs from '01, I think. It's kinda' funny that the splitter is not legal for use on the road and will void the warranty, LOL. I found that a bit funny on the LS-car. It's definately a car to be taken seriously.

I hope GM can find the resources to respond.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:45 PM   #78
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Totally agree. It's very exciting to me to see adjustable coil-overs in a production car. If you could run a lap at mid-ohio in my car then adjust the sways and the DCCD to see how much of a difference it makes you would be in awe. From huge understeer to crazy oversteer and anywhere in between with the flick of a switch and a little tightening of the rear sway bar. Control is crucial because the fastest setup on a car is the one that compliments the drivers' style. I have a picture somewhere of the inside rear tire a few inches off the ground when I got my car dialed in, I'll see if I can find it.
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:03 PM   #79
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Totally agree. It's very exciting to me to see adjustable coil-overs in a production car. If you could run a lap at mid-ohio in my car then adjust the sways and the DCCD to see how much of a difference it makes you would be in awe. From huge understeer to crazy oversteer and anywhere in between with the flick of a switch and a little tightening of the rear sway bar. Control is crucial because the fastest setup on a car is the one that compliments the drivers' style. I have a picture somewhere of the inside rear tire a few inches off the ground when I got my car dialed in, I'll see if I can find it.
Sweet I'm hoping the MR shocks would come over to Z28, at least. I know we have a couple Sponsors here that make parts for GMPP (I forget their exact status, so I won't say and misrepresent) that have a multitude of bound and rebound settings and are full coilover-style. It'd be killer to see SSX be Z28 with these GMPP upgrades, or at least the MR shocks. I hesitate to say I would like to see it match the Boss, because I want it to be better, but nonetheless, the Boss, at this point, is the Boss in this segment, lol.

That sounds like a cool picture. I've always liked your car, regardless of what others say about your rival.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:41 PM   #80
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Thanks. The looks aren't for everyone, but I didn't buy it for the looks, if I did I would have gotten a fifth gen or a 5.0, or maybe a classic. Everyone hates on these cars until they drive one, especially a modified one. That pic must be on my desktop, I'll upload it here sometime.

I hope the SSX makes it to production in some form. I have no doubt it would be at least a match for the boss. Am I right in assuming all the parts are available from GMPP? It would be interesting to see someone build one to spec and run it through the paces.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:17 AM   #81
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I'm sorry you're feeling frustrated and think everyone else is ignorant because they didn't travel the world. I'm sorry it looks to me like M3's interior is better than your ultimate car. I'm not making the comparison; Ford is.

I didn't see a back seat, nav', leather, and many other amenities; I looked at the website.

Yes - that video, and if you followed along that whole story, you would've read the 'Stang had a problem with suspension travel and the SS had bad heat-soak problems and wasn't making the same power on the track it would at the dyno'. Regardless - that heavier car with IRS still hung with the lighter Mustang.

Perhaps you should re-read some posts because all I've said is compare apples-to-apples. If you want to talk about a race car, compare it to another. If you're strictly looking for performance - fine; but not everyone only considers performance - some people want a complete package. However - don't deminish those points if you want to enter a conversation. No one like a one-sided conversation. Otherwise - maybe some Boss fanboys will welcome your knowledge, because, frankly, I'm done reading it. I conceed to your sarcasm... LET'S ALL BUY BOSS's BECAUSE 'Pill APPROVES!!!
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Add me to the club. The Boss is impressive.....but it's not that impressive. I can't quite comprehend the hype...

It's a Mustang with a modest power bump, retuned suspension, and manual-adjustable shocks......Woooooooooo...... Ford has done to the Mustang what people around here have been doing to their Camaros since it came out....Naturally, I'm biased to a factory package, and for that I give them credit, but

IMVHO....the Boss is as much a product of Ford's excellently persuasive PR and marketing people as it is a product of their performance division.

I've said it before and haven't wavered; Nurburgring times are, at best, purely entertainment because there is no governing body that oversees the runs. However -- it is one of a very few road courses that measure a cars entire potential with a myriad of long straights, moderate sweepers, and super-tight turns....Will most of us ever be able to race there? No....but I'd be curious to see that time...


No it wasn't.
Wow, this car is really ruffling some feathers. Ain't competition great?

Honestly, with remarks like the one's I highlighted, you guy's either don't get what this car is about, or it just isn't for you. And that's cool, it certainly isn't for everyone. But for those of us that get it and appreciate it, it's beyond cool. This car isn't about luxury...get a GT500 or upcoming ZL/1 if that's what your after. This car is all about the performance and the driving experience, everything else is secondary. When your driving at the limit, things like nav, leather and other luxuries don't add to that experience.

This is a car built for the track that you can drive on the street, and I think the luxuries that were sacrificed (no nav, leather, sync, glass roof, power seats, auto climate control, etc.), for the performance (forged motor, upgraded cams, upgraded bearings, lightweight valve-train, upgraded cooling, adjustable suspension, track tune, etc.) are spot on. The price of a Boss is comparable to a fully loaded GT. You have the choice of all the luxuries or all the performance, something for everyone. How can you not appreciate that?

I hope the upcoming Z/28 follows the same formula.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:51 AM   #82
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Wow, this car is really ruffling some feathers. Ain't competition great?

Honestly, with remarks like the one's I highlighted, you guy's either don't get what this car is about, or it just isn't for you. And that's cool, it certainly isn't for everyone. But for those of us that get it and appreciate it, it's beyond cool. This car isn't about luxury...get a GT500 or upcoming ZL/1 if that's what your after. This car is all about the performance and the driving experience, everything else is secondary. When your driving at the limit, things like nav, leather and other luxuries don't add to that experience.

This is a car built for the track that you can drive on the street, and I think the luxuries that were sacrificed (no nav, leather, sync, glass roof, power seats, auto climate control, etc.), for the performance (forged motor, upgraded cams, upgraded bearings, lightweight valve-train, upgraded cooling, adjustable suspension, track tune, etc.) are spot on. The price of a Boss is comparable to a fully loaded GT. You have the choice of all the luxuries or all the performance, something for everyone. How can you not appreciate that?

I hope the upcoming Z/28 follows the same formula.
You're totally correct. This car, and the like, aren't for me. It's a race car. If you want to compare race cars, then do that. The next car I think of, that's of similar intent and design, is an Viper ACR. Should we compare those two? The price spread is crazy, but that's a better comparison, if we're going to talk performance. Regardless - other than to argue, I really don't think that's a fair comparison, because the ACR's cost increase is significant. I totally can appreciate what' Ford's done, but admittedly, it's not the car for me.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:09 PM   #83
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Wow, this car is really ruffling some feathers. Ain't competition great?

Honestly, with remarks like the one's I highlighted, you guy's either don't get what this car is about, or it just isn't for you. And that's cool, it certainly isn't for everyone. But for those of us that get it and appreciate it, it's beyond cool. This car isn't about luxury...get a GT500 or upcoming ZL/1 if that's what your after. This car is all about the performance and the driving experience, everything else is secondary. When your driving at the limit, things like nav, leather and other luxuries don't add to that experience.

This is a car built for the track that you can drive on the street, and I think the luxuries that were sacrificed (no nav, leather, sync, glass roof, power seats, auto climate control, etc.), for the performance (forged motor, upgraded cams, upgraded bearings, lightweight valve-train, upgraded cooling, adjustable suspension, track tune, etc.) are spot on. The price of a Boss is comparable to a fully loaded GT. You have the choice of all the luxuries or all the performance, something for everyone. How can you not appreciate that?

I hope the upcoming Z/28 follows the same formula.
You're quite right. It's not for me....and so I don't understand why these relatively modest upgrades are wooing everyone to the point of fainting. I get the race-car formula, and I appreciate what they were going for.....but I also understand that this, and other cars like it (the Z28, for example, if it's built) have a very limited niche....many of its biggest fans have no interest in buying it...

But every time I attempt to express what I'm thinking with regards to this formula for a car, I come off sounding negative, which isn't my intention.

Let's just stick with: I get it. And it's not for me or many others, so I don't quite understand the sheer amount of drool.....
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Old 03-12-2011, 03:24 PM   #84
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You're quite right. It's not for me....and so I don't understand why these relatively modest upgrades are wooing everyone to the point of fainting. I get the race-car formula, and I appreciate what they were going for.....but I also understand that this, and other cars like it (the Z28, for example, if it's built) have a very limited niche....many of its biggest fans have no interest in buying it...

But every time I attempt to express what I'm thinking with regards to this formula for a car, I come off sounding negative, which isn't my intention.

Let's just stick with: I get it. And it's not for me or many others, so I don't quite understand the sheer amount of drool.....
Sorry, but those two comments negate one another.
There are those among us that just love a car to perform track style (wether we track it or not), and we don't want to spend the extra $10K+ for the loaded ZL1, even though we do appreciate it for what it is. In comparison it is the difference between a Porsche Turbo and a GT3.
And no not everyone gets it, but I and many others do. So, build a Boss competitor Camaro (Z28) and I will buy it. After all it is what the Z28 started as. If GM believed the ZL1 was a really a Z28 it would be called as such.
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:08 PM   #85
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I guess it's the same reason most don't understand why I'm so down on the ZL1, even though it has some valuable aspects. I really hope GM answers back soon, the circles I run in seem to really be looking at the Boss and I could see 4k in production sales turn into 8 or 10K if their are no other options in the next few years.
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