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Old 02-16-2009, 02:06 AM   #1
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Is Chevrolet American?

Well, anyway, given the economy being what it is, why aren't these cars being built in the states? Part of GM's problem, along with just about every other business that sells products here in the US, is that the outsourcing is killing everybody. I'm a self-employed computer technician in New Jersey and do you know why I have a business? It is all about the service and communication, and much less about price (Within reason of course). When enthusiasts and casual buyers alike drive up to a dealership, almost 90% of the time they know what model of car they want and know what it costs before they even have a chance to open the showroom door. If it is sold correctly and all the information is correct, in order and delivered properly, again, people do not mind paying a bit more for a clean process.

I knew I wanted my 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged and all the options before I walked in, but you know what? After I dealt with the corrupt finance manager at D & C Chevrolet in Westwood New Jersey, who kept changing numbers on me and selling me things I didn't need, simply having enough money and knowing what I wanted clearly wasn't enough. The service was horrible; their communication was horrible and having a credit rating over 800, putting almost $20K down up front and getting raped with an interest rate of 8.1% definitely pissed me off. Not suprisingly, they are out of business now, but since then many Chevrolet dealerships closed up shop in NJ. How the 2010 Camaro is being handled alone sets up this car to be the epitome of what GM is and has become over the years. Communication has been consistently horrible throughout. Less than a month before actual production and I still don't know what any of the accessories cost and if I didn't see that 21" wheels are going to cost about 5K more, even despite the R/S package, I would have gotten screwed by the dealership, been 5K poorer and came home with an extra set of 20" wheels I didn't need. Thank goodness for this forum for picking up on that or I'd be in trouble. The dealerships need all the correct information and need to be updated simultaneously. I think it is absolutely disgraceful when I called 10 dealerships about this car and I received different and conflicting information from all of them. That is inexcuseable. Buying a $40K car shouldn't be tedious work if the product is for sale. It feels more like GM is making it more a "privilege" for us to own one and that sickens me to no end. GM needs to take business and personnel cues from Toyota because when I walked into a Toyota showroom in Ramsey, NJ, my wife bought a new Corolla, wasn't spoonfed any bologna; she knew what she wanted; got an excellent rate; bought a quality car and left very pleased with her investment. I was there and watched the whole process unfold. Everybody was in sync there.

I love Chevrolet, GM, and the new Camaro. I'm still buying one without a doubt. Had it preordered since January 2nd, but I pray that I don't have to deal with any of this nonsense again like I did when I bought my Cobalt.

With that said, I really don't have an issue with Canada or any other country, but it would help the US and Chevrolet's "American Revolution" image sound and honest if Americans had those jobs. Otherwise, don't try to feed us bullshit about Chevy's American heritage. Hell, if you can build a Corvette here in the states, than find a way to build the Camaro here too. No offense to Canadians but let them develop their own vehicles and let them hire Canadians to build them. Let them help their own economy and we'll help ours. 'Nuff said. Let the flaming begin. I'm ready.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:20 AM   #2
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GM is BS to me still, and no...I do love the Camaro, but Fords are the best.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:20 AM   #3
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Chevrolet is as American as Apple Pie. You're making far too many assumptions, and not giving enough credit where it's due.:( Look up domestic parts content for car brands (you'd be surprised)...realize that there shouldn't be any ill-will between the US and Canada (the Camaro's been built there for over a decade, if not two)...

ALL of GM-brand dealers are ranked among the best in the nation in terms of sales satisfaction. And believe it or not, Toyota ranks BELOW average (which is already a pretty low bar):

JDPower Sales Satisfaction results: 2008

And you're making wild assumptions about the company's handling of the Camaro. We...as a community....are extremely nosey. We see and hear things that should never be seen or heard. All in all, with a few road bumps, the Camaro's concept to production journey has been pretty smooth sailing.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:23 AM   #4
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No flaming necessary, you make very valid points. Sorry to hear about your dealership troubles, but try not to blame that all on GM. Sure I suppose they could take some of the blame for not putting stricter regulations on the dealerships ( I do not mean to say that GM is not running their dealerships right, but just for the sake of arguement), but that is un-American in the sense that it goes against out individualistic economy. As for the plants, keep in mind that a good deal are in the US, and the ones in Canada are there for price reasons - cheaper labor and land. You can't blame GM for trying to save money considering their position.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:26 AM   #5
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I didn't want to write a book Dragoneye and thanks for moving my post to an appropriate place! The development may be smooth and astonishing, but it is ashame so many people outside of the community who are "paid professional Chevrolet dealership Managers and Sales personnel" that really don't know anything about what is going on. Is there a black hole in New Jersey because you and CamaroScotty seem to know what's going on and helped me avert disaster with that 21" wheel issue.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:33 AM   #6
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I have a 98 Camaro vert built from Oshawa. Great car; love the quality. I know laying down a blank statement like "Chevrolet needs to be built in America BY Americans" sounds horrible and of course it is to save money, but from many Americans, especially older ones, they ALL complain that nothing is built in the United States anymore and that eliminates jobs we need. Outsourcing is reality unfortunately, but if American companies were serious about making their company a force created in America BY Americans, it would be great, in an ideal world, to see not only Chevrolet, but all American businesses adhere to this line of thinking. I'm not ignorant. Realistically, it isn't profitable or economical, but I still think it is unfortunate and sad.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
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I didn't want to write a book Dragoneye and thanks for moving my post to an appropriate place!
Not a problem.

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The development may be smooth and astonishing, but it is ashame so many people outside of the community who are "paid professional Chevrolet dealership Managers and Sales personnel" that really don't know anything about what is going on.
Well, consider this...for one; I agree with you. Too many salesmen don't know diddly. But...think of the details we expect them to know...compared to the details some jamoke off the street expects them to know. I'm about to help my parents go searching for a car, as a matter of fact -- all my mother wants to know is how much cargo room there is, how many mpg it gets, how does it look, and is it comfortable. My father only wants to know how much it costs.

We want to know how many hp it has, what kind of stripes are offered and where they're being produced, and where our cars are at 12:25 on Saturday of February 2009....etc. That doesn't excuse the fact that they don't seem to know alot...but we DO hold them to a much higher standard than they're used to.

In light of that:
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Is there a black hole in New Jersey because you and CamaroScotty seem to know what's going on and helped me avert disaster with that 21" wheel issue.
...in light of that: that's what this site is for. And that's why GM provides us with goodies. We supplement what your dealer cannot tell you (for whatever reason). Wanna know what the rear suspension setup looks like?? We got it. Have a question about the compression ratio of the LS3? We got it. Everything there is to know about this car can be found or learned here on Camaro5, thanks to all our very smart members. For cars like the Camaro -- we need sites like this. Most dealers aren't cut out for it.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:42 AM   #8
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Realistically, it isn't profitable or economical, but I still think it is unfortunate and sad.
"Gray Area" really is an understatement here...I'd like to see everything made here, too...but since it's not realistic...does this at least brighten your spirits a little?

Domestic Parts Content
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:45 AM   #9
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Wow, I can't believe Honda/Acura is sitting at 59% domestic parts. That's insane, but GM shouldn't be behind Ford and Chrysler, you have to admit. Yeah, those statistics are pretty interesting. Pleased to see that every part in a Honda or Toyota isn't 100% Japanese. I'd have thought at LEAST 99% if they were using Mobil 1 synthetic oil.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:47 AM   #10
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They do make nearly double the vehicles as the other two...and tap into enormous foreign markets for some cars (G8, Astra, etc?)... Frankly, I'm surprised they scored as high as they did!
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:50 AM   #11
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I would not put GM or the automobile manufactures in the same category as the dealers. I don't think GM has alot of control of how a dealership handles there business, and GM definately does not have the market on bad dealers. I have had good and bad experiences with both domestic and import dealers. There are bad apples in every crowd. As far as GM with the Camaro and their enthusiast, I myself am very grateful for them involving us as much as they have. I have never seen anything like this happen before and they have been more than generous with information and insight. They are going to do their best to keep their enthusiast happy and sell the camaro at the same time. Times are bad and everyone is effected. It will turn around, and GM will be the better for it. As far as them building in Canada, I have no problem with this, the reveniew still comes back to the US, and nothing wrong with Canadians having jobs building our cars, especially a great plant like the oshawa plant. I understand you frustrations, but I think the big picture is a promissing one, it will take time, but I think GM has made some good moves IMO. Glad you are sticking with the Camaro BTW!

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Old 02-16-2009, 02:56 AM   #12
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I wouldn't have it any other way. Owned 2 Beretta Z-26's, 98 Camaro Convertble R/S and a 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged. Not about to change my mind now.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:03 AM   #13
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Protectionism gets us nowhere. If Canada's economy is good, that is good for us. The economy is global. We need to make sure we contribute at least as much as we take, but protectionist measures and caring only about "our" economy while saying to heck with all other economies isn't the way to do that.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:04 AM   #14
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I think you hit one point right on the head... It is so frustrating when dealerships and sales men alike don't know anything about the camaro. One of the most anticipated cars in a long time and you can't even go to a certified dealership to find out information. Thank god for this site, i've learned so much. Someone interested in other cars don't have the privilege we have here. I to have made many calls to chevy dealers trying to figure out how many allocations they have and what kind of deposit they require, what price they are selling the car at etc. and they have no clue. Then when i'm getting off the phone with them they have the odacity to try and sell me... Are you coming in, they ask, my name is so and so look for me... Why the hell would i come in after they made it perfectly clear they don't know anything! I understand there's tons of cars there, new and used, GM or not, and they have to have basic knowledge on all of it but it doesn't excuse them. I'm a paramedic and if i just knew the basics on cardiac and didn't know shit on respiratory i wouldn't be a paramedic. And the sad thing is they probably make more than me, lol. I think if dealerships cleaned up this problem alone it would take them a long way.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:06 AM   #15
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Hey Dragoneye, is there any one with more post than you? 9530 WOW. You could be the postmaster general!
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:11 AM   #16
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Hey Dragoneye, is there any one with more post than you? 9530 WOW. You could be the postmaster general!
I think TAG UR IT is slightly "ahead" of me....but....I could stop if you like.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:18 AM   #17
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I think TAG UR IT is slightly "ahead" of me....but....I could stop if you like.
At this rate you will pass Tag, but he might get jealous and have to "out-do" you.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:20 AM   #18
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Hey Dragon, I was curious, are you a GM dealer or manager? I won't flame you, but considering how many people corroborate my story and went through the same pains trying to get information on the new Camaros, if dealers like you and/or CamaroScotty really know what you are talking about, you guys should be making an absolute killing in sales. Hahahaha!

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Old 02-16-2009, 03:29 AM   #19
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I think TAG UR IT is slightly "ahead" of me....but....I could stop if you like.
I would never wish that! lol. This forum would be like one big IDL thread without the great moderators here. I can't even immagine the mayhem. lol



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Old 02-16-2009, 03:38 AM   #20
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Hey Dragon, I was curious, are you a GM dealer or manager? I won't flame you, but considering how many people corroborate my story and went through the same pains trying to get information on the new Camaros, if dealers like you and/or CamaroScotty really know what you are talking about, you guys should be making an absolute killing in sales. Hahahaha!thumbup:
Nope. No dealer here...just an honest-to-God enthusiast with a good memory.

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I would never wish that! lol. This forum would be like one big IDL thread without the great moderators here. I can't even immagine the mayhem. lol
Muhahahaha!!
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:47 AM   #21
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I think you hit one point right on the head... It is so frustrating when dealerships and sales men alike don't know anything .................................................. ......................... I'm a paramedic and if i just knew the basics on cardiac and didn't know shit on respiratory i wouldn't be a paramedic. And the sad thing is they probably make more than me, lol. I think if dealerships cleaned up this problem alone it would take them a long way.
no offense to any salesmen... But if all car salesmen had enough....um knowledge, skills or abilities to become a paramedic....
Then we would not get to have the wonderful car shopping experience that they so graciously provide....
Of course, there are those who strive to be knowledgeable, we have a couple on here.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:44 AM   #22
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Salesmen are salesmen, no matter what their product is. They aren't necessarily trained to sell cars so much as encourage people to buy them. Catch my drift?
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:06 AM   #23
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Louis Cheverolet= founder of Cheverolet..from Sweden.

no flaming, I KNOW cheverolet is American just thought some would
find this interesting.
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:25 AM   #24
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My two cents, its an effective marketing ploy appealing to their heritage, but really the only thing management is concerned with is the bottom line. I know the whole point of business is to make a profit but I think its kind of dishonest to market it as an American Revolution. Look at all the people on this site willing to defend GM and bash the UAW, now thats good marketing.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:04 AM   #25
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Well, anyway, given the economy being what it is, why aren't these cars being built in the states? Part of GM's problem, along with just about every other business that sells products here in the US, is that the outsourcing is killing everybody. I'm a self-employed computer technician in New Jersey and do you know why I have a business? It is all about the service and communication, and much less about price (Within reason of course). When enthusiasts and casual buyers alike drive up to a dealership, almost 90% of the time they know what model of car they want and know what it costs before they even have a chance to open the showroom door. If it is sold correctly and all the information is correct, in order and delivered properly, again, people do not mind paying a bit more for a clean process.

I knew I wanted my 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged and all the options before I walked in, but you know what? After I dealt with the corrupt finance manager at D & C Chevrolet in Westwood New Jersey, who kept changing numbers on me and selling me things I didn't need, simply having enough money and knowing what I wanted clearly wasn't enough. The service was horrible; their communication was horrible and having a credit rating over 800, putting almost $20K down up front and getting raped with an interest rate of 8.1% definitely pissed me off. Not suprisingly, they are out of business now, but since then many Chevrolet dealerships closed up shop in NJ. How the 2010 Camaro is being handled alone sets up this car to be the epitome of what GM is and has become over the years. Communication has been consistently horrible throughout. Less than a month before actual production and I still don't know what any of the accessories cost and if I didn't see that 21" wheels are going to cost about 5K more, even despite the R/S package, I would have gotten screwed by the dealership, been 5K poorer and came home with an extra set of 20" wheels I didn't need. Thank goodness for this forum for picking up on that or I'd be in trouble. The dealerships need all the correct information and need to be updated simultaneously. I think it is absolutely disgraceful when I called 10 dealerships about this car and I received different and conflicting information from all of them. That is inexcuseable. Buying a $40K car shouldn't be tedious work if the product is for sale. It feels more like GM is making it more a "privilege" for us to own one and that sickens me to no end. GM needs to take business and personnel cues from Toyota because when I walked into a Toyota showroom in Ramsey, NJ, my wife bought a new Corolla, wasn't spoonfed any bologna; she knew what she wanted; got an excellent rate; bought a quality car and left very pleased with her investment. I was there and watched the whole process unfold. Everybody was in sync there.

I love Chevrolet, GM, and the new Camaro. I'm still buying one without a doubt. Had it preordered since January 2nd, but I pray that I don't have to deal with any of this nonsense again like I did when I bought my Cobalt.

With that said, I really don't have an issue with Canada or any other country, but it would help the US and Chevrolet's "American Revolution" image sound and honest if Americans had those jobs. Otherwise, don't try to feed us bullshit about Chevy's American heritage. Hell, if you can build a Corvette here in the states, than find a way to build the Camaro here too. No offense to Canadians but let them develop their own vehicles and let them hire Canadians to build them. Let them help their own economy and we'll help ours. 'Nuff said. Let the flaming begin. I'm ready.
Your wifes Carolla was 'IN PRODUCTION" at the time. And by the way, those were AMERICAN salespeople you were talking to at both places. Hmmmmm......seems to me you'll get more info on a car that is in production and sitting on the lot than a car that is still a month away from being produced. And still wont have a full capacity line when they do start in a month.

I think maybe you should have named this thread, 'GM has pissed my impatient ass off' or 'I ordered a car 3 months before production and now I'm pissed'

But YES GM is American.
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