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Old 03-28-2011, 07:54 PM   #126
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On a POSITIVE note....my dealer called the house this evening, my car IS NOT an Allied hostage, it's in NJ and being shipped to the dealer tomorrow.

Looks like I can pick her up Wednesday night.....the LONG wait is almost over.
Awesome!!
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:00 PM   #127
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This is just unimaginable. There is no winner in this scenario.

Losers:
  • Car owners waiting for the cars
  • Dealers panicing about losing potential Camaro customers to Ford
  • Truck drivers not sure what the future holds with their company making a bad move
  • Every company out there using this trucking company thinking twice.
Winner: None.
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:02 PM   #128
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UNION LEADERSHIP is KILLING ITS MEMBERS!!!! LEGAL MAFIOSO???

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Beyond just making a bad business decision they have committing a crime. They have stolen $47 million worth of cars. In addition to a massive law suit I would be contacting attorney general offices across the country. I might even have GM reps go down to the Allied depots the trucks are parked at and having them call the local Sheriff's office if they refused to hand over my vehicles.
You union members ..... time to realize that your leaders are greedy and politically motivated to grease the palms that keep theirs greased. YOU PAY THE COST!

The unions have colluded with so many politicians around the country that the costs are UNSUSTAINABLE. It plain and simple. Challenge your leaders, get costs under control, SELL MORE CARS and keep more jobs here within our borders.

What say you?

I'm tired of paying strongarm fees from legalized MAFIOSO.
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:33 PM   #129
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Thanks Moderators for letting this discussion go ... It was truly the heartbeat of America right there. The right to believe in unions or not, to express opinions and disagree openly. You did not have to go get a union job because the government ordered you to, you had the right to join, the right not to join and both love our Camaros !
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:48 PM   #130
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Thanks Moderators for letting this discussion go ... It was truly the heartbeat of America right there. The right to believe in unions or not, to express opinions and disagree openly. You did not have to go get a union job because the government ordered you to, you had the right to join, the right not to join and both love our Camaros !
AGREED!
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:18 PM   #131
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Don't worry, millions of other union members, and I will keep fighting so you can still live, in the most powerful country in the world, and one of the only countries to have those lazy union workers. Makes you wonder how we got that way without em. And I work in a place where safety is EXTREMELY important, and that makes it important to me, so there is a whole lot more than just money when it comes to unions. Does a college coarse make someone worth more? I am not on the side of business, I am on the side of everyday joes, who build the things that make our life easier.... like CAMAROS.
Funny I thought our military past and present gave us the right to live the way we do in this country?
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:46 PM   #132
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Funny I thought our military past and present gave us the right to live the way we do in this country?
... have you been in either the military or a union? I keep hearing from everyone who doesn't pay one red cent of how unions are greedy. Over my lifetime in the steelworkers, I will give over 60k dollars to help the fight for wages, benefits, and safety from companies, who would do everything they could to pay next to nothing. To buy lobbyists to help put tarrifs on underpriced goods coming to our country. And all I hear from non union workers is how greedy I am. How much have you paid to help keep better wages for our families?
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:51 PM   #133
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Not to put a damper on this freedom of speech exercise, but does anyone know if any of the specialty Camaros destined for Camaro Fest 2 are being held captive somewhere?
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:16 PM   #134
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That's a union for you
AMEN!!!!
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:23 PM   #135
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... have you been in either the military or a union? I keep hearing from everyone who doesn't pay one red cent of how unions are greedy. Over my lifetime in the steelworkers, I will give over 60k dollars to help the fight for wages, benefits, and safety from companies, who would do everything they could to pay next to nothing. To buy lobbyists to help put tarrifs on underpriced goods coming to our country. And all I hear from non union workers is how greedy I am. How much have you paid to help keep better wages for our families?
Well I HAVE worked in and "with" labor unions...ask any electrician, plumber or other contractor this question - "What's the best [electrician, plumber, etc.] job to get?" Answer: A union job - highest pay for least work.

My first, but far from only experience:
Got on a ship, my cabin had paint peeling off the steel walls, after asking repeatedly to have the laborers scrape and paint it, and watching them on their coffee and cigarette breaks, I decided to just do it myself. On a Sunday when I didn't have bridge watch, I started working. Having gotten thru all the scraping, priming and 1/2 the painting, the Chief Mate walks by and sees me doing this and flipped out!!! WTF I ask. Stop right now and tell me how long you worked on this, because now I have to pay the (union) laborers overtime for the work you did! PS- I waited three more weeks for them to finish the last 1/2 of the painting!!!

Not all unions, but this is what I think has pervaded them...lazy, selfish "workers".

MHO
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:25 PM   #136
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My finger's starting to twitch.......
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:39 PM   #137
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Easy on the finger... I work on a refinery with temperatures and pressures that are deadly. There are no lazy workers here, and we all watch each others back. If we have a slacker in the ranks, the union sends out our own council before the company even knows about it. Our goal is safety, and good wages. Anyone who calls a worker"my" has more of a problem than will ever be admitted. I am done with my argument, and I still own a bitchen camaro
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:59 PM   #138
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Ok guys... this is obviously stirring up more than what is worth. Let's just hope that the issue is going to be resolved soon... After all, those "lost" camaros need to find their way to the rightful owners.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:37 AM   #139
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Free the camaros!

I have never worked for a union but have worked with union employees. While i understand some people supporting unions .......... um the union employees, I do everything in my power to stay away from em. These people have brought the stereotype on themselves and it proves true for many of them.

I say yay to gm buying a quick solution. I hope they win the lawsuit, bye bye whiney union workers.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:00 AM   #140
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We live in a some what free enterprise system. So if Allied doesn't want or can't honor their contract, they are free to go out of business. Unless their costs are cut, I guess they are headed for bankruptcy. Part of those costs are in driver pay. If they go out of business, they won't be needing drivers. I guess a 80% loaf is worse than a 0% loaf. I lost my job to China and the next job I found cost me way over a 20% cut.

The business leaders are no more entitled to outrageous pay than the union leaders and some union workers. Both are greedy and only out to fill their pockets.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:10 AM   #141
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... have you been in either the military or a union? I keep hearing from everyone who doesn't pay one red cent of how unions are greedy. Over my lifetime in the steelworkers, I will give over 60k dollars to help the fight for wages, benefits, and safety from companies, who would do everything they could to pay next to nothing. To buy lobbyists to help put tarrifs on underpriced goods coming to our country. And all I hear from non union workers is how greedy I am. How much have you paid to help keep better wages for our families?


Uh Yeah, I just finished putting 25 years of service in the United States Air Force, retired out of Scott Air Force Base.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:07 AM   #142
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The union didn't do anything wrong.
This kind of mentality is one of the reasons GM had to file ch. 11......

No matter what the contracts were between Allied and GM, an employee does not have the right to hold company property hostage. In the real world they would be terminated immediately for such actions, and no lawsuit would stand up in their favor.

Another reason why unions are completely useless, wastefull, and destructive to production.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:20 AM   #143
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How much have you paid to help keep better wages for our families?
WOW! You are a unions dream worker. You have given a union 60K to protect you from the big bad companies? Thank god more and more people are seeing this scam and unions are going by the wayside.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:25 AM   #144
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My finger's starting to twitch.......


I'm still trying to catch up in this thread, but this was all that came to my mind.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:43 AM   #145
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I find it odd and disturbing that so many have decided that this is a union issue. The union is not holding the cars hostage. In fact the employees are the ones caught in the middle of the battle. This is between Allied and GM and its not any drivers fault. Cost have gone up for trucking due to fuel and other related costs and Allied simply cannot transport vehicles at a profitable level. They had a contract with GM. They chose to try a bad idea by making the drivers eat the loss. That did not work. They then chose to try another bad idea. To force GM to pay the difference. GM said wait a second. We have a contract that you will deliver cars at $x.xx price.

Think about this and decide how you would react. Ok lets say Gm paid the difference on cars already built. Instead of 995 delivery it went to 1200. Would you be willing to pay the difference after you already negotiated your purchase. If so then pipe right up and let GM know that you are willing to pay way more for shipping and delivery costs. If not then stand behind GM...give them a chance to resource the deliveries and to resolve the auto hostage situation the only way they can. In court today...Relax everyone...its all going to be ok in the long run.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:46 AM   #146
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I stand behind GM, way behind, thankfully.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:03 AM   #147
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Don't worry. When the unions die. You'll be paid squat, and maybe you could hop the border, and grab one of those good paying Mexican jobs... artificially high? I'm not artificially grtting paid. And if you think you can keep up on my 12 hour shift... come try! Unions also make for safe work places also. Funny, I bet half the people in these forums are paid well enough to buy a CAMARO, because of the sweat of union workers, because if it wasn't for us, there would be no competition because everyone would be paid like a third world country. And there would be no OSHA, and children would work for pennies. But you drive a 40k car made by union workers, who maybe barely afford the products they make. Lazy bastards, right? O ya, and my union dues go to help fight cheap products being brought over from other country, and make it a fair wage for them too. What do your dues go for?
As a former union worker I FIGURED OUT that my dues were nothing more than $$ to the Democrats. You're nothing more than a money raising tool for politicians. I can't believe you guys have not figured out how the UNION is screwing you.
You should be PI$$ED!!!
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:27 AM   #148
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... have you been in either the military or a union? I keep hearing from everyone who doesn't pay one red cent of how unions are greedy. Over my lifetime in the steelworkers, I will give over 60k dollars to help the fight for wages, benefits, and safety from companies, who would do everything they could to pay next to nothing. To buy lobbyists to help put tarrifs on underpriced goods coming to our country. And all I hear from non union workers is how greedy I am. How much have you paid to help keep better wages for our families?
I work for a strict non-unionized steel company. Just like the integrated mill dinosaurs, that idea is living in the past. Too bad the unions created their own demise in the steel industry. They would rather ruin the businesses that are trying to keep American workers working, rather than be competitive with foreign steel.

Market-based economy keeps them from paying you crap wages, not your union. Besides muddying waters and trying to make a buck off the "average Joe", Unions dont do anything to support the workers.

They also are the indirect reason why Allied is holding these cars hostage. The union created the ripple effect of Allied looking for money from their customer because the union put them in between the rock and a hard place.

And now hard working (hard saving!) Americans are going to have to wait on their sweet Camaros and Silverados (which, the trucks, were prob being used for work purposes!) all because of one reason...

I dont contribute to a union and I feel my company pays me a fair wage...because they know I'll go elsewhere if they didntl....BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A MARKET BASED ECONOMY!! This isnt China or Russia, I get to choose where I want to work and there are fair working conditions.

But either way Allied needs to let those cars go. Haul more cars and they'll make up the difference over time...unless the union keeps demanding more money...
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:38 AM   #149
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I find it odd and disturbing that so many have decided that this is a union issue. The union is not holding the cars hostage. In fact the employees are the ones caught in the middle of the battle. This is between Allied and GM and its not any drivers fault. Cost have gone up for trucking due to fuel and other related costs and Allied simply cannot transport vehicles at a profitable level. They had a contract with GM. They chose to try a bad idea by making the drivers eat the loss. That did not work. They then chose to try another bad idea. To force GM to pay the difference. GM said wait a second. We have a contract that you will deliver cars at $x.xx price.

Think about this and decide how you would react. Ok lets say Gm paid the difference on cars already built. Instead of 995 delivery it went to 1200. Would you be willing to pay the difference after you already negotiated your purchase. If so then pipe right up and let GM know that you are willing to pay way more for shipping and delivery costs. If not then stand behind GM...give them a chance to resource the deliveries and to resolve the auto hostage situation the only way they can. In court today...Relax everyone...its all going to be ok in the long run.
I will agree with you that rising fuel cost during the last 3-4mo ignited this problem. However a company in the transportation industry should be better prepared to handle this factor of their business; just like GM has had to handle rising steel costs to make their cars. Poor decision making at Allied coupled with union mumbo-jumbo has brought this issue to the stage its at.

What I find odd and disturbing is that this transportation company decided to try something so bold. And hopefully most of these cars are bought and paid for (by the dealerships) as this will help release product to the rightful owner. Also, FOB contract details will play a part. FOB the plant and GM could have some litigation to go through. FOB destination and GM could cut through this crap quicker...
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:08 AM   #150
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I work for a strict non-unionized steel company. Just like the integrated mill dinosaurs, that idea is living in the past. Too bad the unions created their own demise in the steel industry. They would rather ruin the businesses that are trying to keep American workers working, rather than be competitive with foreign steel.

Market-based economy keeps them from paying you crap wages, not your union. Besides muddying waters and trying to make a buck off the "average Joe", Unions dont do anything to support the workers.

They also are the indirect reason why Allied is holding these cars hostage. The union created the ripple effect of Allied looking for money from their customer because the union put them in between the rock and a hard place.

And now hard working (hard saving!) Americans are going to have to wait on their sweet Camaros and Silverados (which, the trucks, were prob being used for work purposes!) all because of one reason...

I dont contribute to a union and I feel my company pays me a fair wage...because they know I'll go elsewhere if they didntl....BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A MARKET BASED ECONOMY!! This isnt China or Russia, I get to choose where I want to work and there are fair working conditions.

But either way Allied needs to let those cars go. Haul more cars and they'll make up the difference over time...unless the union keeps demanding more money...
I do not agree with the ripple effect. The union contract was known and agreed upon long before Allied ever forged a contract with GM. They did not raise the price. They reacted when Allied paid short 20% without any notice..just arbitrarly paid short. The union also told drivers if they were loaded to deliver what was on the truck and not to hold any car hostage.

I am not saying I am a union guy or supporter even for that matter...I am an independent business man. But this whole situation has nothing to do with the Union and I find it frustrating to see folks use this horrible situation to spew political feelings when they are totally unrelated. Due to this entire situation there are a bunch of Americans with no work...no loads...and a bunch of folks with no cars. Belly aching about unrelated issues just is not going anywhere here. We might as well be blaming this all on the NFL players union as it is just as involved and responsible.
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