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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 04-04-2011, 04:45 PM   #101
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John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr:
Ironhead... We continue to work on evolving Camaro. Regarding Z28, all I can say is stay tuned...


[Comment From KentWatkins KentWatkins: ]
No comment on the Z28 then? The Z28 was brought out to battle the Boss Mustang back in the Trans Am days.
John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr:
KentWatkins.. I think it is very interesting to note that history of the Z28 and its comparison to Boss 302...


Oh Yeah! There's gonna be a Z28!!!!!!
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:56 PM   #102
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Yes a heavy car can handle BUT it is much better to do it with a lighter car. Besides loosing weight makes the need for bigger brakes a nonissue, less spring rate and smaller swatbars which keep the weight in check. Heavier performance cars get bigger heavier brakes (unsprung weight a big bad), bigger swaybars and needed even bigger heavier engine to run just as good, this puts more stress on the car itself. Basicly taking a 4000 Z28 and try to run with a 3600 Boss Mustang will require much more to get it done. Adding weighty parts to make a heavy car work is like screwing for virginity. Light weight is a win win win over a heavy a$$ "performance" car.
Look we all wish we can have a lighter car but its not going to happen in a 5th gen. All we can do is minimize the weight added in the end by removing unneeded weight else where. And that idea of always needing a bigger heavier engine is an old misconception.
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:58 PM   #103
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Let's hear it!!!
Number 3 is already questioning the lack of post in the Z28 section.
Don't think for a minute that GM doesn't pay attention and consider the forum a free study in marketability. My background is in marketing and I'd kill for information like this.

C'mon let's get on the bandwagon!!!
I already have one 2010 Camaro SS, that will take the Boss, and any Boss killa' that comes out of GM for the next 5 yrs., well may not a mod'd ZR1 vette. Dammit. LOL
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:35 PM   #104
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Look we all wish we can have a lighter car but its not going to happen in a 5th gen. All we can do is minimize the weight added in the end by removing unneeded weight else where. And that idea of always needing a bigger heavier engine is an old misconception.
Why can't it happen? I am not saying lose 400 lbs (that would be a huge undertaking costing big bucks) but how about 200 to 300 lbs with lossing the heavy a$$ bling wheels (18" rims will fit with the Brembos). If you dump the heavy wheels then the brakes will work even better, making the heavier 6 piston Brembos not needed (would make the Z28 cheaper too). Suddenly the need for much heavier suspension is gone too. Throw in Recaros (or like) seats to knock weight and improved holding, rear seat delete, some sound deadening removed, and minimal added bracing (don't need as much when you lose weight). I am not even saying things like carbon fiber fenders, doors,and hood. Those pieces will reduce a small amount while making the car very expensive. Decontent the Camaro a bit (let people put the option back on if they want them) no nav, sounds system minimized, no heated power seat tracks, manual mirrors without auto dimming....see where I am going? Now instead of a 4000 lbs Camaro, you have a 3750-3800lbs Z28 with added HP/TQ in the LS3, throw in 3.73 and you have a Camaro that will make the Boss Mustang work for it. So yes it can and should be done!
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:40 PM   #105
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John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr: Regarding Z28, all I can say is stay tuned...

[Comment From KentWatkins KentWatkins: ]
The Z28 was brought out to battle the Boss Mustang back in the Trans Am days.
Actually, KentWatkins, you have that bass ackwards...the Z/28 finally begat the BOSS 302...2 Model Years later...

Let's hope the "reply" this time is more prompt!
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:33 PM   #106
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More than half the cars on this site would smoke the BOSS and the ZL1/Z28............
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:09 AM   #107
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You are incorrect.
According to Road and Track the Boss has NO limit. However the Boss LS does.
There is a limit on the Boss 302 as well, there will be a total of 4000 Boss 302's built this year. 750 of those will be Laguna Seca's. It is strange that Ford actually went public with a solid figure, they usually are pretty secret about that.

On another note, some of us "enthusiast" are petitioning Ford to start a Boss job #2 since all of those 2012 Boss Mustang's have been spoken for.

The success of the Boss is only candy for GM. The Boss hype is probably really making them think about the Z28.
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:24 PM   #108
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It's all marketing!!!
Ok they'll make a little bit of $$$$ too.
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:18 PM   #109
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Why can't it happen? I am not saying lose 400 lbs (that would be a huge undertaking costing big bucks) but how about 200 to 300 lbs with lossing the heavy a$$ bling wheels (18" rims will fit with the Brembos). If you dump the heavy wheels then the brakes will work even better, making the heavier 6 piston Brembos not needed (would make the Z28 cheaper too). Suddenly the need for much heavier suspension is gone too. Throw in Recaros (or like) seats to knock weight and improved holding, rear seat delete, some sound deadening removed, and minimal added bracing (don't need as much when you lose weight). I am not even saying things like carbon fiber fenders, doors,and hood. Those pieces will reduce a small amount while making the car very expensive. Decontent the Camaro a bit (let people put the option back on if they want them) no nav, sounds system minimized, no heated power seat tracks, manual mirrors without auto dimming....see where I am going? Now instead of a 4000 lbs Camaro, you have a 3750-3800lbs Z28 with added HP/TQ in the LS3, throw in 3.73 and you have a Camaro that will make the Boss Mustang work for it. So yes it can and should be done!
A page back i stated we could see at most a loss of 110 lbs from a 1ss, which is 3860 lbs. The big problem is not what weight can be removed its what weight needs to be add.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:47 PM   #110
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I already got a mustang killer... except for the supersnake. Sorry but I can't beat that! Cause every ss mustang i ran into was pullied and bolt ons. But when the bank rolls in Im gonna sell the 427 4th gen and get me a camaro with 1400+hp Its a nice thing stepping back a generation and then drop 427 in and running with todays current 60k cars and only doing it for 20k
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:00 PM   #111
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Why can't it happen? I am not saying lose 400 lbs (that would be a huge undertaking costing big bucks) but how about 200 to 300 lbs with lossing the heavy a$$ bling wheels (18" rims will fit with the Brembos). If you dump the heavy wheels then the brakes will work even better, making the heavier 6 piston Brembos not needed (would make the Z28 cheaper too). Suddenly the need for much heavier suspension is gone too. Throw in Recaros (or like) seats to knock weight and improved holding, rear seat delete, some sound deadening removed, and minimal added bracing (don't need as much when you lose weight). I am not even saying things like carbon fiber fenders, doors,and hood. Those pieces will reduce a small amount while making the car very expensive. Decontent the Camaro a bit (let people put the option back on if they want them) no nav, sounds system minimized, no heated power seat tracks, manual mirrors without auto dimming....see where I am going? Now instead of a 4000 lbs Camaro, you have a 3750-3800lbs Z28 with added HP/TQ in the LS3, throw in 3.73 and you have a Camaro that will make the Boss Mustang work for it. So yes it can and should be done!
The camaro doesn't start out at 4000lbs... well if you get a real camaro (M6 LS3,) then you start at 3860, so then cutting off 200lbs you camaro is actually 3660. And there is many threads I have seen and read about how you can cut off 200lbs. 300 is a little too radical. And getting down to 3660 is also bumping power to 496. So your power to weight ratio went from 9.06 to a 7.37! The boss has a pw ratio of 7.77, and to give some motivation a base corvette has a pw ratio of 7.44... Your car has 2 extra seats and you camaro is cheaper depending on what you opted for

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Old 04-06-2011, 05:22 PM   #112
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well if you get a real camaro (M6 LS3,)
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:36 PM   #113
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x2.


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Old 04-06-2011, 10:30 PM   #114
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For me I would love to see a NA high performance version of the Camaro. A 4,000 lb vehicle is no longer a sports car. Get the Z28 down to 3,700 pounds stripped. That can be done I am sure. With about 400 rwhp the Camaro with its superior chassis should have no problem keeping up with the Boss.

Give us an LS3 on steroids, the ZL1 brakes and chassis parts. Make sure there is no wheel hop and give us axles that will not break. Use light wheels with the same size tire at 4 corners and no understeer please.

For sure give us that track key that unleashes a real tune!

And by the way, why don't you offer us enthusiasts GM approved tunes so we can enjoy our cars and keep our warranty? You can make money on the tunes! I am hoping to see a new GM. The old one deserved what it got. But I bet on it and lost big time.

Anyway I am still here and using my GM card so I can get at least $1,000 off on my new Z28. It will be black.

By the way Chevrolet, thanks for listening to my rename the Z28 to ZL1 thread. You have a new legend!
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:57 AM   #115
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I would like to get a Z28, the ZL1 is probably going to be out of my price range
umm excuse me? why would the z28 be cheaper than the zl1? It would probably have the ls7 or ls9 engine which is bigger than the ls3
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:53 AM   #116
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The only ZL1 parts the Z28 should get is the exhaust. I would say the drivetrain support as well but now were talking serious weight. Is there no cast aluminum differential available? The LS7 is unessessary, although it is the easiest solution, it will cost more and weight more than the LS3. The LS series is almost finished so I'm not sure GM would spend the money to tune and test an aggressive LS3 for a single application unless the Grand Sport also recieved this LSZ. The E-Rod 376 is street legal in all 50 states but not sure that the MPG's would be suitable.

You can save some weight in the exhaust (25lbs), 18 inch wheels (30lbs), Cast aluminum differential (15lbs), driveshaft (15lbs), 16 gallon fuel tank (18lbs), ZR1 brake system (15lbs), racing interior (40lbs)... This would be expensive no doubt, but that's the advantage of using an LS3, that and the weight.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:54 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr:
Ironhead... We continue to work on evolving Camaro. Regarding Z28, all I can say is stay tuned...


[Comment From KentWatkins KentWatkins: ]
No comment on the Z28 then? The Z28 was brought out to battle the Boss Mustang back in the Trans Am days.
John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr:
KentWatkins.. I think it is very interesting to note that history of the Z28 and its comparison to Boss 302...


Oh Yeah! There's gonna be a Z28!!!!!!

Once GM tricked us by bringing out the ZL1 instead of a Z28 I immediately thought "there going to make the Z28 a track/strip car & compete with the Boss 302 again!" Or lets hope GM!
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:08 AM   #118
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What I am hoping for, is that GM is saving the Z28 to debut their new DOHC that is based on the raised cam GenV block. Hmmmmm.... a hybrid engine block...
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:16 AM   #119
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I am hoping for a Z28 priced for performance. Like others have stated along with me, this car needs to be focused on that alone. I'll be sorely disappointed if it turns out being an upgraded SS so to speak, and price itself out of the running for many of us. Some have suggested that they drop the 1SS from the lineup and put the Z28 in its place.

That would make sense from a selling standpoint. You'd have the 2SS (or just "SS" as it would be the only one) for V8 power + features and extras, and the Z28 for V8 Power + Performance upgrades. It would be a tradeoff, one or the other, dependent on what mattered most to the person buying the car. If they want the best of both worlds, then they have the top dog ZL1 for that purpose.

Everyone wonders where the Z28 would fit in the lineup, and that is what seems like would be the best solution. Also, features such as sunroof, convertible top or automatic transmission would be SS only options.

That way, the Z28 could stand its ground and a similar ballpark range in price to the (2)SS for the price of performance, and not be priced out of range with extras. It would ideally be situated above the SS in performance, but below the ZL1 in overall power, and contain interior and features akin to the LS.

I am also not a huge fan of the SS V8's having that half and half mode where it only engages all eight cylinders when accelerating. Sure, it sounds great in theory, but in the long term, it is still a recent concept and not entirely proven yet. It is one of the reasons I went with the LS and not the SS when I bought my current Camaro. I wasn't sure something like that wouldn't have issues ten year down the line.

For someone like me that buys cars and keeps them for the long haul, I did not want to take a gamble on something not completely proven yet to stand the test of time. It is also why I waited to get a 2011 instead of a 2010 when they first came out so there was at least one model year and good reviews of a model with the kinks worked out before I made a purchase. Hopefully, a track pack Z28 would run on all eight cylinders all the time.

That is where I would be looking for the Z28 in terms of making a purchase. Then my LS could function as a daily driver, and the Z28 could be the weekend warrior.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:56 PM   #120
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I really hope they dont start using DOHC engines.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:10 PM   #121
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The only ZL1 parts the Z28 should get is the exhaust. I would say the drivetrain support as well but now were talking serious weight. Is there no cast aluminum differential available? The LS7 is unessessary, although it is the easiest solution, it will cost more and weight more than the LS3. The LS series is almost finished so I'm not sure GM would spend the money to tune and test an aggressive LS3 for a single application unless the Grand Sport also recieved this LSZ. The E-Rod 376 is street legal in all 50 states but not sure that the MPG's would be suitable.

You can save some weight in the exhaust (25lbs), 18 inch wheels (30lbs), Cast aluminum differential (15lbs), driveshaft (15lbs), 16 gallon fuel tank (18lbs), ZR1 brake system (15lbs), racing interior (40lbs)... This would be expensive no doubt, but that's the advantage of using an LS3, that and the weight.
I see your car is already at that lower weight! Nice. Sometimes I wish I had gone to the dark side, some things about the Camaro are frustrating. But I still like my SS. I will keep it for now.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:15 PM   #122
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I am hoping for a Z28 priced for performance. Like others have stated along with me, this car needs to be focused on that alone. I'll be sorely disappointed if it turns out being an upgraded SS so to speak, and price itself out of the running for many of us. Some have suggested that they drop the 1SS from the lineup and put the Z28 in its place.

That would make sense from a selling standpoint. You'd have the 2SS (or just "SS" as it would be the only one) for V8 power + features and extras, and the Z28 for V8 Power + Performance upgrades. It would be a tradeoff, one or the other, dependent on what mattered most to the person buying the car. If they want the best of both worlds, then they have the top dog ZL1 for that purpose.

Everyone wonders where the Z28 would fit in the lineup, and that is what seems like would be the best solution. Also, features such as sunroof, convertible top or automatic transmission would be SS only options.

That way, the Z28 could stand its ground and a similar ballpark range in price to the (2)SS for the price of performance, and not be priced out of range with extras. It would ideally be situated above the SS in performance, but below the ZL1 in overall power, and contain interior and features akin to the LS.

I am also not a huge fan of the SS V8's having that half and half mode where it only engages all eight cylinders when accelerating. Sure, it sounds great in theory, but in the long term, it is still a recent concept and not entirely proven yet. It is one of the reasons I went with the LS and not the SS when I bought my current Camaro. I wasn't sure something like that wouldn't have issues ten year down the line.

For someone like me that buys cars and keeps them for the long haul, I did not want to take a gamble on something not completely proven yet to stand the test of time. It is also why I waited to get a 2011 instead of a 2010 when they first came out so there was at least one model year and good reviews of a model with the kinks worked out before I made a purchase. Hopefully, a track pack Z28 would run on all eight cylinders all the time.

That is where I would be looking for the Z28 in terms of making a purchase. Then my LS could function as a daily driver, and the Z28 could be the weekend warrior.
If Chevy decides to really compete with the Boss I am afraid the price will be north of a loaded 2SS. Besides putting on the good stuff they need to save some weight. Even getting a current SS down to 3650 is pricey, let alone the upgrades.
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:27 PM   #123
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what's up world? long time no talk.

well, I want a z28 no matter what. to the people that think the 1ss should be dropped and z28 put in it's place how does that makes sense when your uber camaro starts with a Z? so base camaro v-8 Z then switch it to an SS then back to a Z? nope not going to happen.


as for what we all would like to see...it's all opinion right now since it's not even a real car. and opinions are like A##holes everyones got one.

so here's mine.

direct injection v-8 north of 470hp/tq.
dry sump
curb weight 3500-3700 lbs for a manual
18 inch wheels
magnetic ride select
5 point harness (even though the z06 doesn't even come with that)
seats that will hold you pulling 1+G's
40k price tag.


make the thing handle and you will finally get my business GM. unless I break
down and get the ZL1. which has little of what I really want.

all this is just a wish list. and reality might be far from this
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:12 PM   #124
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I didn't say make the 1SS the Z28. I said with a Z28 in the lineup, they wouldn't need a base V8 model anymore. The Z28 would be the base in terms of features (bells and whistles, if you will) but it would be performance based. I didn't mean to imply that it wouldn't cost more than a 2SS either, although that could be inferred from the way I worded my post. Many keep saying adding the Z28 to the lineup would be one model too many, so I was just trying to guess at one potential solution to that potential issue, if it even is one.

What I was trying to say is that in terms of performance, the Z28 > 2SS, but in terms of luxury features, the 2SS > Z28.

Hopefully that will clear up any confusion on my previous post. Here's hoping we see the Z28 in some form in the next two years!
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:41 PM   #125
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I think the ZL1 is great but I am not into supercharged or turbo cars so I hope the Z28 is a a LS7 and lighter weight then our SS Camaros and more set up like a road racer.
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