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Old 04-04-2011, 12:21 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
So what if the Z28 weighed 3800 lbs.?
The Boss is about 20 lbs. more than the GT, and blows it away. It's all about control. Losing weight would be nice, but you can still have great handling just ask Pedders and Pfadt!

Yes a heavy car can handle BUT it is much better to do it with a lighter car. Besides loosing weight makes the need for bigger brakes a nonissue, less spring rate and smaller swatbars which keep the weight in check. Heavier performance cars get bigger heavier brakes (unsprung weight a big bad), bigger swaybars and needed even bigger heavier engine to run just as good, this puts more stress on the car itself. Basicly taking a 4000 Z28 and try to run with a 3600 Boss Mustang will require much more to get it done. Adding weighty parts to make a heavy car work is like screwing for virginity. Light weight is a win win win over a heavy a$$ "performance" car.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:03 PM   #100
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Yes I understand however the car exist as is. So you work with what you given. I believe that 3,800'lbs is doable. Then add all the toys.
Btw cars are gonna stay heavy since the government continues to add to the bulk. And then they want better gas mileage on top of it.
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:45 PM   #101
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John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr:
Ironhead... We continue to work on evolving Camaro. Regarding Z28, all I can say is stay tuned...


[Comment From KentWatkins KentWatkins: ]
No comment on the Z28 then? The Z28 was brought out to battle the Boss Mustang back in the Trans Am days.
John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr:
KentWatkins.. I think it is very interesting to note that history of the Z28 and its comparison to Boss 302...


Oh Yeah! There's gonna be a Z28!!!!!!
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:56 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Q-ship View Post
Yes a heavy car can handle BUT it is much better to do it with a lighter car. Besides loosing weight makes the need for bigger brakes a nonissue, less spring rate and smaller swatbars which keep the weight in check. Heavier performance cars get bigger heavier brakes (unsprung weight a big bad), bigger swaybars and needed even bigger heavier engine to run just as good, this puts more stress on the car itself. Basicly taking a 4000 Z28 and try to run with a 3600 Boss Mustang will require much more to get it done. Adding weighty parts to make a heavy car work is like screwing for virginity. Light weight is a win win win over a heavy a$$ "performance" car.
Look we all wish we can have a lighter car but its not going to happen in a 5th gen. All we can do is minimize the weight added in the end by removing unneeded weight else where. And that idea of always needing a bigger heavier engine is an old misconception.
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:58 PM   #103
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Let's hear it!!!
Number 3 is already questioning the lack of post in the Z28 section.
Don't think for a minute that GM doesn't pay attention and consider the forum a free study in marketability. My background is in marketing and I'd kill for information like this.

C'mon let's get on the bandwagon!!!
I already have one 2010 Camaro SS, that will take the Boss, and any Boss killa' that comes out of GM for the next 5 yrs., well may not a mod'd ZR1 vette. Dammit. LOL
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:35 PM   #104
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Look we all wish we can have a lighter car but its not going to happen in a 5th gen. All we can do is minimize the weight added in the end by removing unneeded weight else where. And that idea of always needing a bigger heavier engine is an old misconception.
Why can't it happen? I am not saying lose 400 lbs (that would be a huge undertaking costing big bucks) but how about 200 to 300 lbs with lossing the heavy a$$ bling wheels (18" rims will fit with the Brembos). If you dump the heavy wheels then the brakes will work even better, making the heavier 6 piston Brembos not needed (would make the Z28 cheaper too). Suddenly the need for much heavier suspension is gone too. Throw in Recaros (or like) seats to knock weight and improved holding, rear seat delete, some sound deadening removed, and minimal added bracing (don't need as much when you lose weight). I am not even saying things like carbon fiber fenders, doors,and hood. Those pieces will reduce a small amount while making the car very expensive. Decontent the Camaro a bit (let people put the option back on if they want them) no nav, sounds system minimized, no heated power seat tracks, manual mirrors without auto dimming....see where I am going? Now instead of a 4000 lbs Camaro, you have a 3750-3800lbs Z28 with added HP/TQ in the LS3, throw in 3.73 and you have a Camaro that will make the Boss Mustang work for it. So yes it can and should be done!
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:40 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr: Regarding Z28, all I can say is stay tuned...

[Comment From KentWatkins KentWatkins: ]
The Z28 was brought out to battle the Boss Mustang back in the Trans Am days.
Actually, KentWatkins, you have that bass ackwards...the Z/28 finally begat the BOSS 302...2 Model Years later...

Let's hope the "reply" this time is more prompt!
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:33 PM   #106
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More than half the cars on this site would smoke the BOSS and the ZL1/Z28............
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:09 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
You are incorrect.
According to Road and Track the Boss has NO limit. However the Boss LS does.
There is a limit on the Boss 302 as well, there will be a total of 4000 Boss 302's built this year. 750 of those will be Laguna Seca's. It is strange that Ford actually went public with a solid figure, they usually are pretty secret about that.

On another note, some of us "enthusiast" are petitioning Ford to start a Boss job #2 since all of those 2012 Boss Mustang's have been spoken for.

The success of the Boss is only candy for GM. The Boss hype is probably really making them think about the Z28.
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:24 PM   #108
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It's all marketing!!!
Ok they'll make a little bit of $$$$ too.
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:18 PM   #109
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Why can't it happen? I am not saying lose 400 lbs (that would be a huge undertaking costing big bucks) but how about 200 to 300 lbs with lossing the heavy a$$ bling wheels (18" rims will fit with the Brembos). If you dump the heavy wheels then the brakes will work even better, making the heavier 6 piston Brembos not needed (would make the Z28 cheaper too). Suddenly the need for much heavier suspension is gone too. Throw in Recaros (or like) seats to knock weight and improved holding, rear seat delete, some sound deadening removed, and minimal added bracing (don't need as much when you lose weight). I am not even saying things like carbon fiber fenders, doors,and hood. Those pieces will reduce a small amount while making the car very expensive. Decontent the Camaro a bit (let people put the option back on if they want them) no nav, sounds system minimized, no heated power seat tracks, manual mirrors without auto dimming....see where I am going? Now instead of a 4000 lbs Camaro, you have a 3750-3800lbs Z28 with added HP/TQ in the LS3, throw in 3.73 and you have a Camaro that will make the Boss Mustang work for it. So yes it can and should be done!
A page back i stated we could see at most a loss of 110 lbs from a 1ss, which is 3860 lbs. The big problem is not what weight can be removed its what weight needs to be add.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:47 PM   #110
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I already got a mustang killer... except for the supersnake. Sorry but I can't beat that! Cause every ss mustang i ran into was pullied and bolt ons. But when the bank rolls in Im gonna sell the 427 4th gen and get me a camaro with 1400+hp Its a nice thing stepping back a generation and then drop 427 in and running with todays current 60k cars and only doing it for 20k
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:00 PM   #111
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Why can't it happen? I am not saying lose 400 lbs (that would be a huge undertaking costing big bucks) but how about 200 to 300 lbs with lossing the heavy a$$ bling wheels (18" rims will fit with the Brembos). If you dump the heavy wheels then the brakes will work even better, making the heavier 6 piston Brembos not needed (would make the Z28 cheaper too). Suddenly the need for much heavier suspension is gone too. Throw in Recaros (or like) seats to knock weight and improved holding, rear seat delete, some sound deadening removed, and minimal added bracing (don't need as much when you lose weight). I am not even saying things like carbon fiber fenders, doors,and hood. Those pieces will reduce a small amount while making the car very expensive. Decontent the Camaro a bit (let people put the option back on if they want them) no nav, sounds system minimized, no heated power seat tracks, manual mirrors without auto dimming....see where I am going? Now instead of a 4000 lbs Camaro, you have a 3750-3800lbs Z28 with added HP/TQ in the LS3, throw in 3.73 and you have a Camaro that will make the Boss Mustang work for it. So yes it can and should be done!
The camaro doesn't start out at 4000lbs... well if you get a real camaro (M6 LS3,) then you start at 3860, so then cutting off 200lbs you camaro is actually 3660. And there is many threads I have seen and read about how you can cut off 200lbs. 300 is a little too radical. And getting down to 3660 is also bumping power to 496. So your power to weight ratio went from 9.06 to a 7.37! The boss has a pw ratio of 7.77, and to give some motivation a base corvette has a pw ratio of 7.44... Your car has 2 extra seats and you camaro is cheaper depending on what you opted for

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Old 04-06-2011, 05:22 PM   #112
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well if you get a real camaro (M6 LS3,)
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