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Old 04-07-2011, 02:33 AM   #1
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Upgrade my SS drastically or wait for ZL1?

Hey so I am on the verge of putting about 16k in mods to my L99 mostly performance including whipple SC, cai, catted longtubes, catback exhaust, quad exhaust, sway bars, drop springs, ceramic brake pads and some other cosmetic stuff

after all is said and done, i should expect ~532 rwhp and about 500 rwtq (someone else had this same setup on l99 and got these numbers)...

Now, im trying to weigh out the pros and cons of doing this, to do it now or save and wait ... heres what I got so far:


Power dept - my above L99 setup should yield way more overall horses and probably similar to greater rwtq ... but ZL1 has bigger tires, more aerodynamic, better suspension... so who would be faster in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile? My l99 I assume?

Suspension dept - magnetic ride control will blow away the feeling I will get from only sway bars and drop springs... zl1 clearly wins

Braking - isnt the ZL1 almost hte same as the SS 4 piston front 6 piston rear? atleast my l99 pads would be better lol

appearance dept - my cosmetic upgrades basically match most of the zl1 (different hood though) but the zl1 has the LT front fascia. I however like the SS fascia better and i was gonna get duel upgrades halos. I call this one a tie for exterior, and a win for hte ZL1 on the interior... that red stitching and suade is

Warrenty - win for ZL1

Pricing - Well I have the 2SS/RS with 21'' rims and sunroof and stuff so I paid about $42 for it almost 2 years ago. I assume I could trade it in for $30k? Maybe $25 to be safe? ZL1 starts at around $47000 probably.. ill definitely want some extras like a sunroof so lets say $50k total after tax or whatever.. that leaves me about $5000 short that I need to come up with (I didnt even wanna spent the $15k i am now but I managed to make it work so stretching 5k in a year or so wouldn't be impossible, but wont be fun..

Another big thing is that I think I want the manuel transmission someitmes, so if I got the ZL1 this would be an opportunity to do so. Reason being I want to keep this car for life... after 5 years or so, finance a new car and put it in storage so I dont wanna regret this decision. Any other car I got after this would most likely be an automatic so having a manuel now seems like it could be fun after having the SS for 18 months

Also, what if in 3 years GM releases a Z28 alpha dog that kills the ZL1 in performance? Then I will want that one since Im keeping it for life.

Any input would be appreciated
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:31 AM   #2
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Less than a year until the ZL1 is released.....I'd wait.

Resale on the ZL1 will be MUCH better than a heavily modded SS (a LOT of people won't touch a car with heavy mods) if and when you decide to sell it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:40 AM   #3
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I agree wait for the ZL-1
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:49 AM   #4
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Unless it is a very low vin like mine I would wait. I would love to have a ZL1 but selling #230 would be a tough thing to do .
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:57 AM   #5
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depends on what you want. But lets look at numbers. If you keep the SS you will have 58-60 grand into your current car. Now if you go for a ZL1 your probably right on a 30k trade. It all depends though on if your current car is paid off. If its paid off then you spend 42 on it and will get 30 back and have to put twenty down. So in a sense you then spent 64 grand on your new Zl1.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky918 View Post
Hey so I am on the verge of putting about 16k in mods to my L99 mostly performance including whipple SC, cai, catted longtubes, catback exhaust, quad exhaust, sway bars, drop springs, ceramic brake pads and some other cosmetic stuff

after all is said and done, i should expect ~532 rwhp and about 500 rwtq (someone else had this same setup on l99 and got these numbers)...

Now, im trying to weigh out the pros and cons of doing this, to do it now or save and wait ... heres what I got so far:


Power dept - my above L99 setup should yield way more overall horses and probably similar to greater rwtq ... but ZL1 has bigger tires, more aerodynamic, better suspension... so who would be faster in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile? My l99 I assume?

I think you're going to be maybe 20-30 more RWHP than ZL1 will be. You can upgrade to lighter wheels and tires just as easily . I don't know that I'd say the aerodynamics will make ZL1 faster; certainly help plant the tires better at speed, but that costs top speed sometimes, so it's a trade off. ZL1's exterior WAS designed in a wind tunnel, though, so those parts are functional. As far as times go, I think any advantage ZL1 might have over your car in terms of suspension and PTM could be overcome by your higher power; it will depend on how effective your car is at planting it. The auto' will be easier and more consistant, though, especially if you match a good converter to it.


Suspension dept - magnetic ride control will blow away the feeling I will get from only sway bars and drop springs... zl1 clearly wins

Yes. Power is wasted unless you can put it to the tarmac. You certainly have options, though, that I think could at least equal in terms of performance; you just won't have the immediate adjustability and active suspension that will optimize performance with relative comfort. If you could trade-off a little comfort for a LOT of performance, many vendors have many great products that I think will utlimately out-perform ZL1 on a track. Comfort on the street - maybe not as much, but if you're an enthusiast, which I think you are, I'll bet you'll be okay with that small sacrifice.

Braking - isnt the ZL1 almost hte same as the SS 4 piston front 6 piston rear? atleast my l99 pads would be better lol

ZL1 has what looks like CTS-V front calipers and what appear to be SS rear Brembos. I'm sure compounds will be a little different, but I'm sure better performance, minimal dusting, and low noise can be had from the aftermarket. However, ZL1 has larger front rotors, and I'm sure they're thicker than SS rotors, too, so that will help with fade. If you aren't tracking your car though, that money might be better put elsewhere.

appearance dept - my cosmetic upgrades basically match most of the zl1 (different hood though) but the zl1 has the LT front fascia. I however like the SS fascia better and i was gonna get duel upgrades halos. I call this one a tie for exterior, and a win for hte ZL1 on the interior... that red stitching and suade is

ZL1 doesn't have LT's front bumper. I has a larger lower grille, brake cooling ducts, and a splitter. ZL1's front facia is essential in the downforce package GM has designed for the car. I'm on the fence with the DRL/fog light treatment, but I'm certainly not unhappy with it.

It sounds like CAMARO might get an updated interior very soon with some touches ZL1 will enjoy. I'm sure the suede will be an option for LT and SS cars, too, but to what degree, I can only speculate (like much of what I'm posting). I know that I really like the interior, too


Warrenty - win for ZL1

YES

Pricing - Well I have the 2SS/RS with 21'' rims and sunroof and stuff so I paid about $42 for it almost 2 years ago. I assume I could trade it in for $30k? Maybe $25 to be safe? ZL1 starts at around $47000 probably.. ill definitely want some extras like a sunroof so lets say $50k total after tax or whatever.. that leaves me about $5000 short that I need to come up with (I didnt even wanna spent the $15k i am now but I managed to make it work so stretching 5k in a year or so wouldn't be impossible, but wont be fun..

Another big thing is that I think I want the manuel transmission someitmes, so if I got the ZL1 this would be an opportunity to do so. Reason being I want to keep this car for life... after 5 years or so, finance a new car and put it in storage so I dont wanna regret this decision. Any other car I got after this would most likely be an automatic so having a manuel now seems like it could be fun after having the SS for 18 months

Also, what if in 3 years GM releases a Z28 alpha dog that kills the ZL1 in performance? Then I will want that one since Im keeping it for life.

Any input would be appreciated
I'm not sure your trade-in is going to fetch as much; I haven't spec'd out the pricing, though, so I'm just guessing. We still don't know many important details of ZL1, and pricing speculation is all over the map. I'll I'm going to say is save as much money as you can get

If GM releases the 6th Gen, it BETTER be a better car, or what's the use? Personally, I won't care, because I fell in love with the 5th Gen as SOON as I saw the Concept. I reaches back to the best days of CAMARO and even though there are some improvements I'd have liked to have seen, they did little to deminish my enthusiasm for this model. I've bashed the Heck out of both my 4th Gens because I love this model so much, and I really didn't think I could enjoy a car, then, as much as I do this one now, and I don't even have one yet! My point - you can't anticipate and wait to see what happens, or you could miss something great; I know I don't have to make that point. Maybe it's a better idea to hang onto your SS, add a few more little upgrades, and if the 6th Gen is more appealing, trade it in at that time. If not, finish your upgrades and complete what sounds like is a GREAT car that you already have. The points you made are things I think about a lot, but I'm set on this ZL1. If the name means something, that's one thing. If you're looking for performance from CAMARO - you can achieve nearly the same thing with your kickass car. Ultimately, you can probably build it to at least match ZL1 in performance, so unless that model means something to you, go with what makes you more happy.

JMVHO
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:06 AM   #7
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If you can save up $16K for upgrades, I'd wait and use that as the down payment on the ZL1.

The ZL1 will have a much better resale then your modified SS. The ZL1 mod's coming from the factory like a forged engine, better breaks, upgraded interior, better suspension, etc are either not available or way more expensive then what your current mod budget can cover.

Keeping the SS for another year in its current state and packing funds away for the ZL1 sounds like the way to go. I can't see you getting anywhere near the $30k trade in out of your car though. I would be shocked if you got $23k. Check KBB.com and see what the lowest trade in value is. Most dealerships are going around that or less.

Mod your SS or wait, that is a tough choice. If you feel the ZL1 is worth starting your payments over to get a forged motor with a TVS 1900, go for it. It's not what I am doing, but I like my SS that much.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:55 AM   #8
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One thing to consider if you plan on lowering the vehicle is many CTS-V people are unhappy with the results. The MRC system doesn't react the same way when the car is lowered using a stiffer spring.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:05 AM   #9
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You dont have to be drastic to hit the ZL1 performance numbers. You can customize the exterior to a similar and more personal appearance. Cost savings can cover most of the warranty issues that may arise. You can build your own off a 2SS, blower, internals, built tranny, driveshaft, axels, upgrade brakes and custom exterior and wheels for 60K .... Remember 550Crank HP is only 470 RWHP and that is not an outragious number by any means. You wont be even close to being one of the coveted Camaros at your local car show.

Blower 6K, Tranny 5K, Internals 5K Brakes 3K, Axels 1500, Shaft 1K, fuel delivery 1K slightly used 2SS 30K= 52,500 WITH 7500 for additional exterior mods. And you will be 700 rwhp monster built with reliable components



Just sayin!
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:11 AM   #10
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If you can save up $16K for upgrades, I'd wait and use that as the down payment on the ZL1.

The ZL1 will have a much better resale then your modified SS. The ZL1 mod's coming from the factory like a forged engine, better breaks, upgraded interior, better suspension, etc are either not available or way more expensive then what your current mod budget can cover.

Keeping the SS for another year in its current state and packing funds away for the ZL1 sounds like the way to go. I can't see you getting anywhere near the $30k trade in out of your car though. I would be shocked if you got $23k. Check KBB.com and see what the lowest trade in value is. Most dealerships are going around that or less.

Mod your SS or wait, that is a tough choice. If you feel the ZL1 is worth starting your payments over to get a forged motor with a TVS 1900, go for it. It's not what I am doing, but I like my SS that much.
not entirely true...Look at the components in a lsa. still have powder forged rods, but does have forged pistons which is good. still has the tremec 6060 with known issues. Its a lowered compression FI motor but in no way is intended to up the power to levels easily achieved by others. Yes its a factory built car...big bonus. But with the thousands of custom modified Camaros on the market its going to be a weak sister no matter how you slice it. You have to really look at the market and what a Camaro is and always will be. The important thing is that you are happy with what you choose and do... I think the build and story telling and learning and playing is what the Camaro is really about.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:35 PM   #11
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If you're concerned with resale value and potential collector value down the road, or want a relatively rare factory built high performance model, then wait for the ZL1.

If you just want to go fast and don't care much about future value or factory exclusivity, then upgrade your SS.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:40 PM   #12
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You wont get those upgrades back on trade or in a private sale. I still think for 50k ZL1 price you can mod an SS to smoke it with reliable parts and labor. Warranty will never be as good though.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:44 PM   #13
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Both choices will cost ya plenty.....No sense in trying to rationalize either one. Pick the one you want and pull the trigger.

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Old 04-07-2011, 02:52 PM   #14
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Just to be reasonable, you aren't going to modify an SS with PTM and Mag select ride control, etc. It's still not going to be as good as a ZL1 just because of that. I'd wait unless you know someone who is willing to buy your SS for what you have in it when the ZL1 comes out. That's not too likely. Just sayin'!
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:39 PM   #15
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for me, it's about the puzzle, not the answer. I enjoy every second of being with my car and working on it. If you plan to do all the mods yourself, you will be much more satisfied with what you've accomplished in the end rather than buying a different car.

on the other hand if you're paying someone else to do the mods, then I think you'd be better off waiting for the ZL1. As you won't have as much "sweat equity" in it and you'll be happier with something that performs so well with a warranty.

Just my .02 Not knocking paying someone for your mods at all, that's perfect for some people, just not up my alley.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:52 PM   #16
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wait!
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:48 PM   #17
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Asked myself this question as far as moding mine.

The resell thing is a valid point. But reselling was NOT in the cards.

So I made my own ZL1. I made a PQ1.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:53 PM   #18
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Even with $16,000 worth of mods, you would not have everything that a ZL1 has. I would use the 16K as a down payment on a ZL1 and trade the SS towards the ZL1. The trade in value amount will lower the amount of taxes you pay on the ZL1. Just knowing that I would have a full 5year / 100,000 Mile warranty would be enough for me to wait for the ZL1. Good Luck with your decision.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:03 PM   #19
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Wait for the zl1 dont waste the money your never retreive it back save it for diff in pricing of the new z
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Even with $16,000 worth of mods, you would not have everything that a ZL1 has. I would use the 16K as a down payment on a ZL1 and trade the SS towards the ZL1. The trade in value amount will lower the amount of taxes you pay on the ZL1. Just knowing that I would have a full 5year / 100,000 Mile warranty would be enough for me to wait for the ZL1. Good Luck with your decision.
What would a ZL1 have that mine won't?

Besides a warranty.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #21
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What would a ZL1 have that mine won't?

Besides a warranty.
19 ZL1 badges, very cool stuff !!

4 Brakes, 4 Wheels, 2 Door Sills, 2 Seats, 2 Hood, 1 Steering Wheel, 1 Dash, 1 Front Grill, 1 Trunk, 1 Shift Knob
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #22
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Thanks for the input guys... after a full day of contemplation... I am leaning towards the ZL1 ... kinda crazy as I was about to put a deposit down on my 16k mods this week! ...

anyway, the 2013 gt 500 will smoke the 550 HP ZL1 which Im not happy about :(
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...er-future_cars
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:28 PM   #23
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Thanks for the input guys... after a full day of contemplation... I am leaning towards the ZL1 ... kinda crazy as I was about to put a deposit down on my 16k mods this week! ...

anyway, the 2013 gt 500 will smoke the 550 HP ZL1 which Im not happy about :(
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...er-future_cars
Until the Government / Insurance Companies / Energy Regulations step in and demand a stop to the horsepower wars, the high horse power cars will continue to make more HP with each new model year trying to best the other auto makers. You can either buy the best that is available in the current year or upgrade to more HP every year. Somebody somewhere will always have more money to build a more powerful car, you just have to decide for yourself, what will be enough for you and put a grin on your face every time you fire it up.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:34 PM   #24
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you just have to decide for yourself, what will be enough for you and put a grin on your face every time you fire it up.
my stock SS now puts a grin on my face ... but I kinda do want a little more... and I have an automatic now so getting the ZL1 would allow me to get a manual for added fun!
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:39 PM   #25
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my stock SS now puts a grin on my face ... but I kinda do want a little more... and I have an automatic now so getting the ZL1 would allow me to get a manual for added fun!
I would be very surprised if the ZL1 did not make you a very happy Camaro owner, for a very long time.
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