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Old 02-21-2009, 05:09 PM   #1
Muscle Master
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What are your views on this, plz read




My views:
  1. The UAW can kiss my Ass, If I was CEO of GM/Chrysler the first thing on my list to conserve cash would be to cut wages of the UAW

  2. Another thing, he's right about "Fair Trade" and no "Free Trade"..... One cannot compete against a undercutting slave labor, lead filling (additional low blows to imports) producing company that is in another country! And quality isn't an issue! It's wages!

Plz guys, this is an interesting conversation I would like to have- little to no politics at all !!!
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The first rule of modding something that's not American is to not try to compete with modded V8 cars that are American. Really, they can run insane power with little investment. It's not even a fair fight.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:56 PM   #2
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Oh..my god. That was awesome. Totally gone off topic, but awesome.

He does have a point though, it is getting to be a race for resources in the form of wages around the world. Military strategists say that natural resources cause wars.. now it seems Joe Public is going to go to war with Xing Chou over that paycheck rather than Obama and Jintao over oil.

Kinda freaky..
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:05 PM   #3
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That mayor was on fire! Pretty cool that Fox allowed him to tirade like that.

That being said, I don't really agree with him on many of his points...though there were some that made me go "hmmm". Very well spoken arguments, even though he was obviously upset.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:22 PM   #4
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This guy is a total idiot. He does not have a grip on reality. He states that Americans should not have to compete against other countries, and should not have to settle for the lower wages and benefits. Wake up jerk - reality is you will have too! What - do you want to compete against people from Mars instead? On this next issue I have stayed silent and no longer can. I too share the opinion that the UAW is just as insane as this guy. At one time they were needed, but no longer. The free market and competition offer competitive pay. Government agencies manage safety and how pensions are managed. All the UAW does now is push the car manufacturers into agreements that cause the high cost per employee we are now seeing, which ultimately bring them down. We have seen that it is not the per hour cost that is the problem but the added cost for all the unrealistic programs, like having to pay employees to set in a room when their service is no longer needed. And another thing - let them hold out and not become part of the solution by conceding benefits costs, and instead continue to be the source of the problem until GM files chapter 11. Nothing wakes you up to the reality of not having a job like loosing a job! Especially when you could have done something to keep you in that job.

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Old 02-21-2009, 07:56 PM   #5
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As much as you think your opinion is unbiased, id bet a few of you would think differently if it was YOUR paycheck that was being reduced.
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Old 02-21-2009, 09:02 PM   #6
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Virg always goes crazy when he gets on news. Much of what he says is correct though, at least in regard to the double standards between wall street and the automakers. And there's that awful $70/hr number again. I wish someone would clear that number up. It is NOT what people make an hour at GM.
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Old 02-21-2009, 10:03 PM   #7
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You can't have this discussion without political opinions. In light of this, I recommend killing this issue.

Since that may not happen, I'll provide some political analysis of the situation. The UAW is protecting its own. It is banking on GM and Chrysler survival. Without them, they do not exist. Without them, Obama's early presidency is in shambles. They have to survive, so the UAW is making demands.

Obama has to save GM. In order to maintain the support of the left wing of the Democrats as well as the representatives who are so eager to vote with him, Obama has to stick to his running agenda, which includes green vehicles, a surviving domestic auto market, and a lot of government spending. You don't have to like any of this, but this is what the federal government is working to have happen. If this all sorts out, then we will have electric Corvettes crushing Tesla Roadsters in 10 years or less, which would be kind of cool.

It's worth pointing out that Fox is the least credible of any of the major news sources, followed closely by CNN.
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Old 02-21-2009, 11:35 PM   #8
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But why does UAW exist at all, can't they make the cars in america only, or is that to costly

^ To gator ...Seriously If they really care about the survival and success of GM/Chrysler, they would of took the cut no questions asked.... I read over half of them making $70 dollars an hour with only H.S. diplomas living in $400,000 homes, they make me sick ....
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Old 02-21-2009, 11:47 PM   #9
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lol I agree and disagree on alot of what the mayor guy said..


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Old 02-22-2009, 01:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
But why does UAW exist at all, can't they make the cars in america only, or is that to costly

^ To gator ...Seriously If they really care about the survival and success of GM/Chrysler, they would of took the cut no questions asked.... I read over half of them making $70 dollars an hour with only H.S. diplomas living in $400,000 homes, they make me sick ....
Would you PLEASE take a moment to understand where the $70/hr figure comes from? I'm not going to rehash it here, but I suggest taking a look through this thread: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13812 before you assume guys are seeing $70/hr on their paychecks. I agree the union has GM by the balls so to speak, but the factory workers are not making anywhere near that number.
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Old 02-22-2009, 01:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
But why does UAW exist at all, can't they make the cars in america only, or is that to costly
yes, it is too expensive and a logistical nightmare as well. And some countries have laws that say if you sell more than XXXXX units, you have to build some cars there as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
^ To gator ...Seriously If they really care about the survival and success of GM/Chrysler, they would of took the cut no questions asked.... Iread over half of them making $70 dollars an hour with only H.S. diplomas living in $400,000 homes, they make me sick ....
How is it that so few people actually listen to this:

ASSEMBLY LINE WORKERS DO NOT MAKE $70 AN HOUR

that number is the total labour cost which includes hourly pay, benefits, and retiree pension and benefits. Line workers make between $14 and $28 +benefits -union fees. Benefits and pension contributions add $25/hr or so. Retirees add roughly $20/hr to the cost of every hourly employee. So the solution is painfully obvious: get rid of the health care plan and fall back onto the awsome universal health care system that . . . oh wait, nevermind. And tell all the retirees that after putting in 35 years of work into a company, they aren't going to be getting their pension cheques. And every hourly worker should get $10/hr. That would save GM billions every month. Then again, nobody could afford to buy a new car off that. Oh well. Thats what they get for working for a company who agreed to share its sucess with its workers 70 years ago.

The basics for the agreements with the UAW are older than most of the members here, including myself. The UAW itself is older than nearly everyone in the auto industry, certainly older than any of their careers. And the reality is, it will be very difficult to make any quick cost reductions. The VEBA agreement was signed in 2007 and comes into effect in 2010.

On fair trade vs free trade, f*** free trade. Mirror the trade policies of trade partners. If they leave their market open, open up to them. But if they make it difficult, find someone more co-operative. This is the macro economics that government should be working on, not asking "who wants a bailout . . . ". And do something to get consumers spending, because consumers spending = corporate revenue = a stop to the hemorrhaging of job loss. If someone is worried about losing their job, they won't be buying a new car.

I don't even know if all that makes sense anymore. I've re-written it so many times in the last half hour I can't think straight.
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My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:37 AM   #12
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DGthe3, you did an outstanding job in your writeup. I'd challenge the members here to take an up close and personal look at their real cost to their employer. Your vacation time, holidays, insurances, ect... you might be surprised to find that the auto workers package isn't as wealthy to the individual as it seems.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post



My views:
  1. The UAW can kiss my Ass, If I was CEO of GM/Chrysler the first thing on my list to conserve cash would be to cut wages of the UAW

  2. Another thing, he's right about "Fair Trade" and no "Free Trade"..... One cannot compete against a undercutting slave labor, lead filling (additional low blows to imports) producing company that is in another country! And quality isn't an issue! It's wages!

Plz guys, this is an interesting conversation I would like to have- little to no politics at all !!!
If you want to keep politics out of it It would help if you looked up the definition of politics before you ask for opinions on a political question. Not to be a smartass but your question is about politics, you are asking for political answers.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:00 AM   #14
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