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Old 04-10-2011, 11:57 PM   #1
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STS Turbo Help Needed!

Ladies and Gents,

I have a 2011 LS and have recently had a STS Turbo kit installed. The guys who did the install were great and they took their time to make sure everything was functioning properly. I was there when they put it on the dyno and had a tune that I uploaded with a laptop via Trifecta tune. I couldn't wait to see the numbers. Unfortunately I was kind of dissapointed. Here's why...

- STS states that out of the box you make 5 psi. The dyno results proved otherwise. I was only making 2.9 psi. They checked for leaks and none were found. My local speed shop suggested getting a manual boost controller to get the boost up to the 5-7 psi range. Can there be something else wrong here or will the boost controller fix the issue? BTW with 2.9 psi I dynoed 342 RWHP with 3 pulls.

- When I installed the Trifecta tune things seemed to be good to go but when I drove it down the road under normal driving conditions my main gauge lit up like a christmas tree saying I need to have my traction control maintenaced and the transmission light came on. Is this a tunning issue that data logging can fix? I have re-installed the turbo tune and the same thing keeps happening. The graph from the 3 dyno runs "appears" to be the knock sensors doing their job and pulling timing to stave off detonation. Is this really a tune per se or am I better off having the tunning done by my speed shop?

Any info or prior experience/lesson learned would be appreciated.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:30 AM   #2
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If you had 342 at the wheels, you should have been about 5 psi. There have been several that have run STS and another system that have all reached about 350 rwhp at 5 psi. I don't think 3 psi would have given you +100 rwhp. What were you using to measure boost?

Regarding the lights, so far I have not heard anyone having those issues. I assume that you are aware that on the dyno if you didn't turn off traction control you will throw several lights but those should go away after a few miles. You can use the Trifecta software to check what codes are being thrown. Then report that to Trifecta and they should be able to straighten you out.

Regarding the tune, did your speed shop imply they could tune your car? I would definitely check carefully on that claim first.

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Old 04-11-2011, 07:13 AM   #3
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Z is right. No way you got to 342 RWHP on 2.9 psi. I got about 300 RWHP at 3 psi and 345 RWHP at 4.5 psi (dual though).
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:25 AM   #4
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If you had 342 at the wheels, you should have been about 5 psi. There have been several that have run STS and another system that have all reached about 350 rwhp at 5 psi. I don't think 3 psi would have given you +100 rwhp. What were you using to measure boost?

Regarding the lights, so far I have not heard anyone having those issues. I assume that you are aware that on the dyno if you didn't turn off traction control you will throw several lights but those should go away after a few miles. You can use the Trifecta software to check what codes are being thrown. Then report that to Trifecta and they should be able to straighten you out.

Regarding the tune, did your speed shop imply they could tune your car? I would definitely check carefully on that claim first.

And welcome to the FI club!
I actually had my TC/ABS/blah,blah warnings stay on for several key cycles after a dyno session... kind of freaked me out a bit, beca use, like you said, normally they go off after a very short distance...
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:47 AM   #5
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I agree with Z and scrming. The only time I saw lights like that was after it was on the dyno. My lights didn't go off until after about 40 miles of driving, so I was really freaked out too.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:23 AM   #6
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Sounds to me like as long as the lights in the dash go away, your looking pretty good so far.

Work with Vince on the tune to hopefully get another lbl of psi or two and be sure your AFR looks good, and your good to go! Get some traction and take her to the track!

Just a comment here but, it will be nice to see someone finally throw on a turbo kit and after the initial dynoing/tuning, the car run great. There are several ppl on here that are using FI now, but seems like everyone has been doing constant tweaking and changing and monitoring ever since they began. I know monitoring is part of it, but I'd hate to have to spend more weeks/months after the install tweaking everything just to finally get the car running right. I'd feel like I was always on pins and needles worrying something on the car could break at anytime! lol.

That said, my hats off to you guys.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:45 AM   #7
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Sounds to me like as long as the lights in the dash go away, your looking pretty good so far.

Work with Vince on the tune to hopefully get another lbl of psi or two and be sure your AFR looks good, and your good to go! Get some traction and take her to the track!

Just a comment here but, it will be nice to see someone finally throw on a turbo kit and after the initial dynoing/tuning, the car run great. There are several ppl on here that are using FI now, but seems like everyone has been doing constant tweaking and changing and monitoring ever since they began. I know monitoring is part of it, but I'd hate to have to spend more weeks/months after the install tweaking everything just to finally get the car running right. I'd feel like I was always on pins and needles worrying something on the car could break at anytime! lol.

That said, my hats off to you guys.
But that's half the fun Keith! I'm not to worried about reliability at these levels of boost (I drove 1K miles back from FL). I just want to make it better. For me the priority is better traction before I worry about more boost. I'm going to get the tune working at 9-10 psi and probably dyno it. Then I'm going back to 6 psi and get her to grip better. I'll be tweaking things for quite a while.


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Old 04-11-2011, 11:29 AM   #8
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But that's half the fun Keith! I'm not to worried about reliability at these levels of boost (I drove 1K miles back from FL). I just want to make it better. For me the priority is better traction before I worry about more boost. I'm going to get the tune working at 9-10 psi and probably dyno it. Then I'm going back to 6 psi and get her to grip better. I'll be tweaking things for quite a while.
Well, I can agree with that statement for the most part lol. I guess I'm just thinking about those guys whom are less mechanically inclined than you are and just wanna spend the money and go!
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:45 AM   #9
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Well, I can agree with that statement for the most part lol. I guess I'm just thinking about those guys whom are less mechanically inclined than you are and just wanna spend the money and go!
Yeah, just ribbing you a bit. .


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Old 04-11-2011, 12:22 PM   #10
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So are we all in agreement - this is normal dyno behavior and the lights will go off all by themselves?
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:33 PM   #11
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Yeah, they'll go away. If I remember right I used the code scan/clear function from the Trifecta app once. You can give that a try, too.
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Old 04-11-2011, 04:14 PM   #12
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Yeah, just ribbing you a bit. .


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Old 04-11-2011, 07:25 PM   #13
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-Yep all the traction contol lights do go off after 8-10 miles of normal driving but every time I start the car the same lights come on. I am sure it is something witht the tune. I'll let Vince know about it.

- The guys at the shop said they could see how much boost I was making from the dyno. I watched the screen as they did it but not sure if you can use the dyno to get the psi?? I do have the Dual ADM gauges with A/F and boost on a wide band sensor, maybe this is what they were using. And they used a dyno that has a current thing that simulates the weight of the vehicle. I guess it doesn't let the wheel spin freely, provideds some kind of resistance?

- The speed shop did say they could not tune my vehicle. V8's they can do but not the V6's. They are a reputable shop. They did state that they found it odd that anyone can custom tune the V6. The shop said the graph from the 3 dyno runs "appears" to be the knock sensors doing their job and pulling timing to stave off detonation which made them suspicious of it being able to be custom tune. I have no experience with tunning but this is what they are telling me.

I'll have the owner of the shop e-mail me the graph this week. They ordered the manual boost controller and I should have it installed in a few days. Then I'll do some data logging and send them off to Vince.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:35 PM   #14
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-Yep all the traction contol lights do go off after 8-10 miles of normal driving but every time I start the car the same lights come on. I am sure it is something witht the tune. I'll let Vince know about it.

- The guys at the shop said they could see how much boost I was making from the dyno. I watched the screen as they did it but not sure if you can use the dyno to get the psi?? I do have the Dual ADM gauges with A/F and boost on a wide band sensor, maybe this is what they were using. And they used a dyno that has a current thing that simulates the weight of the vehicle. I guess it doesn't let the wheel spin freely, provideds some kind of resistance?

- The speed shop did say they could not tune my vehicle. V8's they can do but not the V6's. They are a reputable shop. They did state that they found it odd that anyone can custom tune the V6. The shop said the graph from the 3 dyno runs "appears" to be the knock sensors doing their job and pulling timing to stave off detonation which made them suspicious of it being able to be custom tune. I have no experience with tunning but this is what they are telling me.

I'll have the owner of the shop e-mail me the graph this week. They ordered the manual boost controller and I should have it installed in a few days. Then I'll do some data logging and send them off to Vince.
Not sure how they would read the boost from the dyno. They could have a sniffer that reads the AFR and maybe that was what they were talking about.

The base tune is for 5 psi and I would say you are probably right on the money there. Vince will be able to tweak it for your car (every one is a little different) once you send the logs.

Question -- does the AEM dual gauge to allow you to adjust the boost? The reason I ask is if it does, then why go with the manual boost controller? I've got the seperate wideband and boost controllers from AEM and the boost controller works great. It only take 30 sec. or so to change the boost once you get the hang of the order to push the buttons.

Anyway, good luck and keep us up to date.
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1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:21 PM   #15
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-Yep all the traction contol lights do go off after 8-10 miles of normal driving but every time I start the car the same lights come on. I am sure it is something witht the tune. I'll let Vince know about it.

- The guys at the shop said they could see how much boost I was making from the dyno. I watched the screen as they did it but not sure if you can use the dyno to get the psi?? I do have the Dual ADM gauges with A/F and boost on a wide band sensor, maybe this is what they were using. And they used a dyno that has a current thing that simulates the weight of the vehicle. I guess it doesn't let the wheel spin freely, provideds some kind of resistance?

- The speed shop did say they could not tune my vehicle. V8's they can do but not the V6's. They are a reputable shop. They did state that they found it odd that anyone can custom tune the V6. The shop said the graph from the 3 dyno runs "appears" to be the knock sensors doing their job and pulling timing to stave off detonation which made them suspicious of it being able to be custom tune. I have no experience with tunning but this is what they are telling me.

I'll have the owner of the shop e-mail me the graph this week. They ordered the manual boost controller and I should have it installed in a few days. Then I'll do some data logging and send them off to Vince.

How many times have you started the car since? As SCRMNG mentioned, it may take a few key cycles. You can check the code scanner if you are worried. And although Trifecta is tuning the V-6's its not yet perfect. I am still working with him on the timing issues.

Regarding the boost, the only way they can tell is if they tapped into a vacuum hose. Where did you tap the boost guage? I would start there and make sure you are not having any issues (like a leaking connection). What are you readings at idle? If you can get a hold of a manual boost gauge, that might help. I know with some of the electronic boost gauges they may have a problem of needing a constant power source during start-up or the gauge won't zero properly.

Be careful before you add a manual boost controller. Those are not precise in the adjustments and I would also be worried if your boost gauge is off that you could easily over boost your motor.

Last edited by Z Madness; 04-12-2011 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:46 PM   #16
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Z madness...

-Today the stabiltrac lights have all gone off. I would say this was the 8th or 9th time I've started the vehicle since the install. Seems like the computer figured it out.

-I'll have to ask the shop where they tapped into for the boost gauge. My readings at idle are 15.4 Air/Fuel digital gauge and (negative) -10.4 psi on the digital boost gauge in neutral in my driveway. When driving normally my A/F hangs around 14.6 and my boost psi around (negative) - 6.6 psi. I have the ADM dual gauges from admperformance.com.

-I'll be sure to bring what you stated with them. I do not want to overboost the motor! I'll make sure the tap into the vacuum hose to do the testing while on the dyno. Again I'll have to ask how they came up with psi during the initial dyno runs.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:58 PM   #17
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Z madness...

-Today the stabiltrac lights have all gone off. I would say this was the 8th or 9th time I've started the vehicle since the install. Seems like the computer figured it out.

-I'll have to ask the shop where they tapped into for the boost gauge. My readings at idle are 15.4 Air/Fuel digital gauge and (negative) -10.4 psi on the digital boost gauge in neutral in my driveway. When driving normally my A/F hangs around 14.6 and my boost psi around (negative) - 6.6 psi. I have the ADM dual gauges from admperformance.com.

-I'll be sure to bring what you stated with them. I do not want to overboost the motor! I'll make sure the tap into the vacuum hose to do the testing while on the dyno. Again I'll have to ask how they came up with psi during the initial dyno runs.
Glad the lights went out. Yes, they can get funky sometimes.

At idle, your A/F should be like 14.7 and boost should be reading -15 to -20. You have to let the car get to normal idle. I would say re-check the gauges first to make sure everything was installed correctly and where it is being tapped into. I'm not familiar with ADM but my Autometer needed to have the constant power during start-up or the gauge wouldn't zero correctly.

Does you car drive okay? If the turbo is set-up properly, you should definately feel the extra 100 hp's. Good luck!
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:54 AM   #18
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Can we please get some videos from you guys? PLEASE........
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:36 AM   #19
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Can we please get some videos from you guys? PLEASE........
Videos of what? Z and I have posted some on our build threads (track, dyno, etc...). Are you looking for something else?
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1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:29 PM   #20
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Z Madness,

Thanks for all your input as well as the other posters. My Air/Fuel fluctuates between 14.4 and 14.7. I am sure once I data log Vince will be able to sweeten it up. I have searched around many forums and as far as the boost gauge goes most people with various makes/models seem to hover around -11.5 and -6.0 at idle post cold start. I will ask my speed shop to double check the install and call ADM to see what they say. I did get on it today and my boost gauge went up to + 4.4 psi and then the blow off valve kicked in. Vince stated that I could go up to 7 to 7.5 safely without having to change internals.

I do have one more question though. For anyone that has the STS turbo for the V6, the oil pump is pretty noisy even inside the cabin, I did put some second skin vibration material (similiar to Dynamat) around where it is mounted in the front right wheel well. It did help some with the sound but was wondering if there is anything else I can do so it is not so noticeable?
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:51 PM   #21
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Z Madness,

Thanks for all your input as well as the other posters. My Air/Fuel fluctuates between 14.4 and 14.7. I am sure once I data log Vince will be able to sweeten it up. I have searched around many forums and as far as the boost gauge goes most people with various makes/models seem to hover around -11.5 and -6.0 at idle post cold start. I will ask my speed shop to double check the install and call ADM to see what they say. I did get on it today and my boost gauge went up to + 4.4 psi and then the blow off valve kicked in. Vince stated that I could go up to 7 to 7.5 safely without having to change internals.

I do have one more question though. For anyone that has the STS turbo for the V6, the oil pump is pretty noisy even inside the cabin, I did put some second skin vibration material (similiar to Dynamat) around where it is mounted in the front right wheel well. It did help some with the sound but was wondering if there is anything else I can do so it is not so noticeable?
The noise from the oil pump is definitley a major annouance. I think the only thing that can be done is get a new pump
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:31 PM   #22
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Z Madness,

Thanks for all your input as well as the other posters. My Air/Fuel fluctuates between 14.4 and 14.7. I am sure once I data log Vince will be able to sweeten it up. I have searched around many forums and as far as the boost gauge goes most people with various makes/models seem to hover around -11.5 and -6.0 at idle post cold start. I will ask my speed shop to double check the install and call ADM to see what they say. I did get on it today and my boost gauge went up to + 4.4 psi and then the blow off valve kicked in. Vince stated that I could go up to 7 to 7.5 safely without having to change internals.

I do have one more question though. For anyone that has the STS turbo for the V6, the oil pump is pretty noisy even inside the cabin, I did put some second skin vibration material (similiar to Dynamat) around where it is mounted in the front right wheel well. It did help some with the sound but was wondering if there is anything else I can do so it is not so noticeable?
Yup, I complained about the oil pump from day one. At some point, I plan to replace it but its one of those bottom of the list things. It's mostly sitting at the stoplight that drives me nuts or rolling in on a cruise night.

Hopefully other STS guys will post up but my vacuum at idle is closer to 20 psi. Also, the blow-off valve should not be opening at 4 psi. Do you mean the wastegate? The wastegate should be opening at ~5 psi.

Sounds like things are getting better for you. I think everyone so far has had initial issues with their set-ups, which is not uncommon for ANY forced induction build so stay positive and it will all be worth it.
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:57 PM   #23
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Z...

Kind of sucks about the oil pump. I'll ask around and see if there is a less noisy option. Well I got on it really hard today and my boost gauge went up to 7.4 psi. I was hauling the mail and there was some oil leakage around the seals of the turbo. Things are fine for right now but it had me a little concerned when I checked it out. Seems like this will take some time to iron out all the details. I am looking forward to getting this setup completely right.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:31 PM   #24
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Found out today I had a bad wastegate and one of the oil fittings was loose (fixed on site). So my speed shop called STS and they are over nighting a new wastegate. Will have it in this Tuesday. Hats off to STS for getting this resolved so quickly and my local speed shop for finding out what was going on. A+ in my book!
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:41 PM   #25
MyWorld
 
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Drives: RJT 2LT RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by elsololobo02 View Post
Found out today I had a bad wastegate and one of the oil fittings was loose (fixed on site). So my speed shop called STS and they are over nighting a new wastegate. Will have it in this Tuesday. Hats off to STS for getting this resolved so quickly and my local speed shop for finding out what was going on. A+ in my book!
That's good that you guys caught it quick. My next mod is going to be a electronic boost controller and a turbo fuse. Going to wait a few weeks though while the bank account recovers
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