Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Grabiak Performance Center
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics

Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-13-2011, 11:57 AM   #1
Rocky918
 
Rocky918's Avatar
 
Drives: SS for Super Sexy!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 747
Z28 release April 2012?

So I was reading this months Car and Driver magazine under '25 cars worth waiting for' ... then I read the ZL1 part which said to expect a release on Feb 2012 as the "horse power edition" ... it went on to say that GM will be matching fords every move and to expect a "track and performance pack edition" for April 2012 likely to be later named as the Z28 to match the Mustang Boss... and the performance pack edition will likely feature mostly improved handling and suspension

anyone else have information on this? My thinking is this, why get the ZL1 to to match the GT 500 when the 'Z28' is probably just around the corner. If GM matches fords mustang boss in its Z28, than the Z28 would have to have a 1/4 mile of at least 12.3 second and 0-60 in 4 seconds flat...

the ZL1 however, would likely be faster than that by what? ... 0.3 seconds in the 1/4 and maybe .2 seconds faster on the 0-60? ... Are these small time improvements on the ZL1 really worth having compromised suspension/handling compared to the Z28?

here is a very similar article to the one I read in the magazine:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...l1_z28-feature
__________________
- Life is to short to let it pass you by
Rocky918 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 12:22 PM   #2
GbrilliantQ
¡ʇuɐıןןıɹq
 
GbrilliantQ's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro IOM 2SS/RS
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Decatur, Illinois
Posts: 2,614
Who knows. What really doesn't make sense, is why Chevy is going out of order of nameplates. The V6 RS, Z28, SS, ZL1...

Just wondering why the Z28 will be faster than the SS. It's always been the other way around.
GbrilliantQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 12:23 PM   #3
Camaro_Corvette
36.833283,-76.021958
 
Camaro_Corvette's Avatar
 
Drives: Team 1LE
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 22,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by GbrilliantQ View Post
Who knows. What really doesn't make sense, is why Chevy is going out of order of nameplates. The V6 RS, Z28, SS, ZL1...

Just wondering why the Z28 will be faster than the SS. It's always been the other way around.
You're opening a big can "o" worms with that question.
__________________
Camaro_Corvette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 12:35 PM   #4
Rocky918
 
Rocky918's Avatar
 
Drives: SS for Super Sexy!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by GbrilliantQ View Post

Just wondering why the Z28 will be faster than the SS. It's always been the other way around.
its just the way it is lol
__________________
- Life is to short to let it pass you by
Rocky918 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 01:34 PM   #5
Blizzard
Searching for the truth
 
Blizzard's Avatar
 
Drives: 85 K-10
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Starkville, Mississippi
Posts: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by GbrilliantQ View Post
Who knows. What really doesn't make sense, is why Chevy is going out of order of nameplates. The V6 RS, Z28, SS, ZL1...

Just wondering why the Z28 will be faster than the SS. It's always been the other way around.
We dont know if the Z28 will be faster but the first gen Z28.....

ok ok im off topic i will just stop

Do a search and you will learn all about this can of worms
__________________
2013 1LE 1SS RS TPW 4/29
Blizzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 03:31 PM   #6
Bond
Heritage Hanger
 
Bond's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS, Black.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 1,174
It's nothing other than a marketing scam brought to you by GM (which I don't necessarily disagree with)! A "save the best for last" or "save the most buzzed about for last" sorta scheme.

The Z28 was being asked about before the first production cars were rolling off the line in '09!

I also like how GM played the "When the latest GT500 comes out, we'll grab one and build a performance car against it!" (ZL1). I have a feeling that they pretty much have a Z28 built, but want to get their hands on a Boss to put them together on the proving grounds and tweak their winner. And while I've been reading the reports on the Boss, it's evident that Ford built one hell of a track car! If the Z28 is in fact built to compete with the Boss, I'd seriously consider trading my SS for one!
__________________
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=4574&pictureid=46944

Keeping The Spirit Alive!
Bond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:01 PM   #7
GbrilliantQ
¡ʇuɐıןןıɹq
 
GbrilliantQ's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro IOM 2SS/RS
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Decatur, Illinois
Posts: 2,614
I know why, just thinking out loud sorry for the topicishness..

Hopefully if there is a Z, they can get the weight down for the Z to win against the Boss. Weight is the issue IMO
GbrilliantQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:15 PM   #8
Gramps69Z
Still waiting on the Z
 
Gramps69Z's Avatar
 
Drives: 69 Z/28, 06 Denali, 09 CTS
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Destin FL
Posts: 1,652
Send a message via AIM to Gramps69Z Send a message via Yahoo to Gramps69Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by GbrilliantQ View Post
Who knows. What really doesn't make sense, is why Chevy is going out of order of nameplates. The V6 RS, Z28, SS, ZL1...

Just wondering why the Z28 will be faster than the SS. It's always been the other way around.
You can't go by this rating!
__________________
1 year, 5 months to go!
1969 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
2006 Denali
2009 Cadillac CTS


The Six Old Guys
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
The last thing we want is to ship something that isn't right.

Last edited by Gramps69Z; 07-28-2012 at 04:09 PM.
Gramps69Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 05:01 PM   #9
GreenMonster
Its all about the U
 
GreenMonster's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SGM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,676
z28 ftw
__________________
GreenMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 03:03 AM   #10
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond View Post
I also like how GM played the "When the latest GT500 comes out, we'll grab one and build a performance car against it!" (ZL1). I have a feeling that they pretty much have a Z28 built, but want to get their hands on a Boss to put them together on the proving grounds and tweak their winner. And while I've been reading the reports on the Boss, it's evident that Ford built one hell of a track car! If the Z28 is in fact built to compete with the Boss, I'd seriously consider trading my SS for one!
That is a great observation. If this is possibly the case, I would look for GM to reverse engineer the Z28 engine from their Grand Am GS car. Let me do some research into the GS LS3 engine and I will get back to this thread on what I find. Not saying that this engine is in the works right now and its out there racing. It would give us a benchmark of what to expect at a minimum and, information about the current setup will be well known to Z28ist in this thread any any abrupt engine changes in Grand Am would tell us that "This is it".

Be Right Back...
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 03:50 AM   #11
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
If the Z28 is to be reverse engineered from the Camaro GS in Grand Am, here are some disqualifying factors that have to be taken into consideration. This is kind of a long post but the "QUOTES" are taken from the 2011 Grand Am Rule Book and can be read in its entirety here: http://www.grand-am.com/news/index.cfm?cid=13517&rr=no
Be sure to scroll down to the Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge section

First, the minimum production rate.
Quote:
Eligible cars will ordinarily be those described in manufacturer’s catalogs, produced at a
minimum rate of 500 units per year, and available for purchase through normal dealer outlets 30 days or more prior to competing in an event. Exemption from minimum production requirements must be approved by GRAND-AM.
and...
Quote:
3-3.1 GRAND-AM may use any legitimate forms, publications, original components and vehicles describing the production OEM (original equipment manufacturer) specifications of the eligible makes and models in order to verify compliance with these regulations.
GRAND-AM may require a competitor to furnish factory specifications prior to competing.
3-3.2 GRAND-AM may establish specifications that are not per the original manufacturer specification.
3-3.3 Each car must conform to the standard configuration as delivered to U.S. consumers by the manufacturer except where these regulations allow or require modifications.
The CTS-V or ZL1 braking system cannot be migrated over to the Z28. Those braking systems are for heavy vehicles anyway and since the Z28 is aiming to be at the SS's weight, they would be useless. The ZR1/Z06 Carbon Ceramic might be eligible but only the disc, not the calipers. Most of these Grand Am cars use smaller disc brakes over the stock. I have a simple formula that can determine a vehicles required braking system requirements.
Quote:
GRAND-AM may allow a brake upgrade for specific models. If allowed, only one two-piece (split into two halves) caliper of aluminum alloy with a maximum of four pistons and two pads per wheel permitted.
It is safe to assume that the engine will not be forced induction of any type. This actually takes a lot of pressure of the independent teams to do so.
Quote:
7-6.1 All forced induction vehicles will be assessed an additional fee when registering for the season. This is to offset the cost for data collection equipment for these cars. Forced induction teams will also be required to purchase (from GRAND-AM) and install the following sensors:
ST453 Boost sensor with DSP ST543 IR Lap Time Rx
The boost sensor may be collected by GRAND-AM at any time to verify calibration and accuracy. Replacement for sensors damaged in use will be the responsibility of the team.
The data acquisition modules will be randomly assigned by GRAND-AM. Only a GRAND-AM official may access the information on the unit. These units must be returned to at the conclusion of each event.
Engine specifications:
Quote:
7-8.1 Engine management systems may be replaced with non-OEM systems with GRAND-AM approval. Effective 01/01/08 all GS and 05/01/08 all ST Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge cars that choose to use an aftermarket ECU must use the GRAND-AM specified ECU and wiring harness. Spec ECU and wiring harnesses cannot be modified in any way.
7-8.2 The following components may be tooled enough for balancing only - pistons, rods, crankshaft, harmonic balancer, flywheel and clutch.
7-8.3 The lightest rod and piston must remain unaltered.
7-8.4 The crankshaft and harmonic balancer may weigh no less than the OEM specification.
7-8.5 Aftermarket pistons may be used provided they remain identical in weight, dimension and form.
7-8.6 Allowed to overbore block up to .030 maximum.
7-8.7 The oil pan and oil pick up may be modified (not the pump)
7-8.8 Engine oil Accu-sump system and valve is permitted.
7-8.9 All pushrod engines may use aftermarket blueprinted or adjustable length pushrods, provided
they are of the same material and configuration of the original.
7-8.10 Other items that may be replaced include cam gears, sprockets and chains. 7-8.11 The airbox and air filter are free on normally aspirated cars unless otherwise specified by
GRAND-AM. Ram air induction is not permitted.
7-8.12 GRAND-AM will provide restrictors when required. Teams will be responsible for gaskets and bolts to attach the restrictors. Return of the restrictors is mandatory following each event or fines will be imposed.
Here is the exact Camaro requirements and regulations page.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by thePill; 04-14-2011 at 04:17 AM.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 04:13 AM   #12
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
For those of you who do not know this, Grand Am is becoming a very BIG deal. It was purchased by NASCAR on September 4, 2008 and since then has become a breeding ground for competition sport coupe's just like the Trans Am days of old. BMW came over from SCCA in 2005, trying to destroy the American sports coupes. BMW is the enemy here and since coming to Grand Am, interest in the sport grew considerably. This is where the GT vs. M3 battle originated from.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 09:41 AM   #13
Rocky918
 
Rocky918's Avatar
 
Drives: SS for Super Sexy!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 747
So basically only some parts may come from other models? No brake calipers from zo6/zr1 and no FI... no magnetic ride control and much less weight .... suspension will be based off grand am?
__________________
- Life is to short to let it pass you by
Rocky918 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 08:29 PM   #14
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky918 View Post
So basically only some parts may come from other models? No brake calipers from zo6/zr1 and no FI... no magnetic ride control and much less weight .... suspension will be based off grand am?
The Boss 302 IS the Grand Am car. Last year in Grand Am GS, Multimatic ran the only Boss 302 and was had Ford factory support. The Boss didn't do good at all last year, it never broke down.. it had some electrical problems. Much like the 1969 Boss 302, it ran but the entire field other than the factory backed car was still running the 289ci Mustangs in that class (The heavier class was running the big block but that class went away). This year, the Boss covers the entire field with the exception of a few GT's still running. The NEW Grand Am rules state that the vehicle must be a production model and there is a limit to how old the model and engine can be. This is the reason Ford doesn't run the FR500C "Boy Racer" anymore (the FR500S and FR500GT4 are ineligible). The FR500C production is basically limited to the teams that are still running them now so they can continue to run until the production rule is in full effect.

That means the Camaro GS WILL have to be replaced very soon by either an SS or something of another caliper (PUN POINTS!!!). The Camaro is the only entry right now that doesn't use a factory nameplate. This might be why we see a 4SS coming this year because the Camaro is struggling and most of that has to do with the suspension setup (and some other things, but it is not the drivetrain). If I remember correctly, there was no 2010 FR500C, S or GT4 so that means season '10 and season '11 so far has been run with the FR500C and these are usually teams that are independent and are always strapped for cash. Grand Am may make an exception for these teams because it would shrink the field down to a very small amount of cars. If anyone here remembers the 2007 ALMS GT1 class that had two Dodge Vipers and two Corvettes that ran the class. In 2008 the GT1 class had two Corvettes (team mates) that remained in the class and Corvettes won the championship, in 2009 they dropped down to GT2. Grand Am, now controlled by NASCAR, is insuring that bleeding teams of their money to conform to quickly changing rule book doesn't happen.

I would predict the 2012 Camaro 4SS will be the stand in model until the Z28 is ready. I will be watching the races closely and try to dig up info month by month as the FE4 SS see production in these coming months to see if any changes are made. We can continue to watch Grand Am GS to see if the announcers make any mistakes like they did with the Boss 302 waaaaay back before it was officially made public, 29 July, 2010.. check it out:


Last edited by thePill; 04-15-2011 at 06:28 PM.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 08:41 PM   #15
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky918 View Post
So basically only some parts may come from other models? No brake calipers from zo6/zr1 and no FI... no magnetic ride control and much less weight .... suspension will be based off grand am?
Whoops!! I went into an extended rant and forgot to answer your questions. Magnetic Ride Control is illegal in road racing of almost every kind. The old F55 option MRC shocks would overheat as well but I believe the next generation shocks were suppose to fix that (says the Z06 elitist). I don't think the Carbon Ceramic brake rotors would make it either, they are banned in ALMS, not because they are ineffective or dangerous to run... because those lower level teams that fill up the pack cannot afford them. Road racing has a lot of rules to keep it competitive with driver skill and race engineering. If cash teams were allowed to run prototype equipment or systems that were far more advanced than everybody elses.... money would win everytime. These cars are as close to production, real life automobiles as your going to get in racing today.

I would definitely look too Grand Am's Camaro for the next Z28. As soon as you see GM Performance directly sponsoring either the Stevenson or Mitchum Camaro, you know there is definitely, absolutely, 100% positively Camaro Z28 tech going in there.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 11:04 AM   #16
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
LOWDOWN's Avatar
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,061
Pill, you're basing your "cannot do" list on an existing production SS chassis. IF there is a Z/28 created and available in volumes greater than 500 units (which WILL be the case), the Z/28 will come with "upgrades" over and above the SS...including most assuredly the BRAKES...which will NOT be a "useless" upgrade...

Remember that brakes, like horsepower, can never be "too much"!

As for the Multimatic Mustang of Scott Maxwell and Co., look for them up front...they have a certain history with the FR500C that is enviable...and Multimatic is a division of Magna International Inc. (do a google), who do NOT suffer from a lack of either funds OR factory support...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...D_AM/110419995

Scott, to Mustangs, is kinda like Ron Fellows was to C5R/C6R Vettes...and coincidentally, both are Canadians who earned their stripes in the GM/Player's Challenge Series 20-odd years ago in Canada.

http://www.playerschallengeseries.ca..._East_pics.htm
__________________

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 04-15-2011 at 11:46 AM.
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 08:01 PM   #17
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Pill, you're basing your "cannot do" list on an existing production SS chassis. IF there is a Z/28 created and available in volumes greater than 500 units (which WILL be the case), the Z/28 will come with "upgrades" over and above the SS...including most assuredly the BRAKES...which will NOT be a "useless" upgrade...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post

Remember that brakes, like horsepower, can never be "too much"!
I put the "500 minimum production" rule out there just to solidify a point I made three post after I posted the rule. My point was that the Camaro GS will be replaced by either the SS or the Z28 soon, same as every eligible car has done already. My intentions were not to say that the Z28 would be limited to 500 units a year. You obviously do not support the Camaros in Grand Am enough to know this but..... Although some eligible cars do run a factory setup, others like the Camaro GS do not always use the factory 14" fr/14.4" rr disc brake setup. Camaro teams are actually permitted to use the stock V6 12.4" rear disc brakes and most of them do. Some teams run smaller than factory disc in Grand Am but most production cars a factory ready to run this type of race and do not need to downsize to smaller brakes because they are factory built small (11.9 rr brakes on the Boss). In race cars, "race weight" and the race cars brakes go hand in hand just as GVWR and brake systems in production cars do. In fact, braking systems and GVWR's are so dependent on each other that they identified by the same digit in the VIN. If you lighten the vehicle, it is only natural to reduce amount of brake surface and the amount of force applied to that surface via the calipers. 14.7"/14.4" rotors are light weight and at speeds, could defeat the traction of a 285 tire and possibly the ABS at a race weight of only 3400lbs. That braking system may be too much for a car that has a 4550lb GVWR (as the production Z28 would hopefully be equal to the SS). So the teams usually opt for a smaller disc...

The Grand Am Z28 will not have big disc brakes on the race car, this is something the production cars will have that the Grand Am cars do not but the Z28 will not require the ZL1/CTS-V's braking system because:

1.) they are too large for the vehicle that must maintain at least the front disc and still use an 18" wheel.

2.) The GVWR will be the same or hopefully a few pounds lower than the SS.

3.) The 6 piston calipers are illegal in Grand Am and only a maximum of four pistons are allowed per wheel...

The three reasons stated above would make 14.7 inch, 6 piston calipers USELESS on a track ready, turnkey production race car. Because they are too large for the race weight/wheel size and the calipers are not permitted to compete.


Quote:
As for the Multimatic Mustang of Scott Maxwell and Co., look for them up front...they have a certain history with the FR500C that is enviable...and Multimatic is a division of Magna International Inc. (do a google), who do NOT suffer from a lack of either funds OR factory support...
Quote:
Scott, to Mustangs, is kind of like Ron Fellows was to C5R/C6R Vettes...and coincidentally, both are Canadians who earned their stripes in the GM/Player's Challenge Series 20-odd years ago in Canada.
I know Multimatic is a great team, they also have factory support in the Grand Am GS Boss 302 as well as FIA GT3 Mustang. Roush also is a wealthy team which is why I said:
Quote:
Road racing has a lot of rules to keep it competitive with driver skill and race engineering. If cash teams were allowed to run prototype equipment or systems that were far more advanced than everybody else’s.... money would win every time.


Roush and Multimatic have factory support, great drivers and fantastic race engineering, that is why they are in the front all the time. BMW came to Grand Am to race Ford, BMW brought exactly those three things but didn't dominate the GS series as they would have liked to. BMW won last year, Ford won the year before and I hope they win it this year as it looks like Multimatic and Roush are after the BMW's this year (slow start though). If one of the Camaro teams had factory support they might do better...
You make it sound like the whole Multimatic team is an evil, underground, criminal organization that is funded by an illegal black market corporation. They drive a Ford, why wouldn't they have factory support? Multimatic is using Ford next gen IRS in the FIA Mustang, maybe Ford supports them because they can keep their mouths shut when testing stuff like the Boss and CB IRS.

Anyway, why don't you try to add something to the Z28 instead of just telling me whats wrong with my post. You never add anything.

What chassis will the Z28 be built on and why not the 5th Gen?
What kind of improvements to the current chassis would have to be made?
What would the "upgraded" brakes be?
How many Z28's do you think will be built?

Last edited by thePill; 04-15-2011 at 08:42 PM.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 08:40 AM   #18
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
LOWDOWN's Avatar
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,061
What sized brakes do they put on the Z06? The ZR1? The Vette GS? Which weigh what? Great big useless ones...

Regardless of what GrandAm allows or disallows, expect brakes on a Z/28 production version to be superior to those currently offered on the SS, regardless of the Z/28's GVWR. Many more Z/28s (and BOSS Mustangs) will see usage in HPDE environs than GrandAm racing...and after an hour or two of runnin', none of those folks will ever accuse the Manufacturers of putting "useless big brakes" on their cars.

My "opinion" of a Z/28 is chronicled elsewhere on this forum. In appropriate threads. And my "opinion" is merely that...like yours, it's "conjecture" at this point. Time will tell...

As to your "extended rant", I'm now sorry I validated it... And don't re-use YOUR quote and attribute its content and/or suppositions to ME, as if I think Multimatic is "the Evil Empire". I made no such statement, implied or direct. I merely linked then DIRECTLY to Ford, which they are. And their direct association goes back many years, through many projects...all the way back to the mid-'90s, uninterrupted. Which partially explains their continued success...and why, once again, GM has to play "catch-up", involving racing AND Camaro vs. Mustang.

As to "money" being involved, it ALWAYS is...that is EXACTLY how the breed is advanced...

Facts, not conjecture...

You've managed to take a Production-based "When will it arrive?" thread and turn it into a "Here's what we'll race, how we'll build it, and where we'll race it" thread. Perhaps Stevenson AND the Camaro Team need your psychic and engineering abilitites...
__________________

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 04-16-2011 at 09:24 AM.
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 09:14 AM   #19
nak3dsnake


 
nak3dsnake's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro IBM 2LT/RS M6
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by GbrilliantQ View Post
Who knows. What really doesn't make sense, is why Chevy is going out of order of nameplates. The V6 RS, Z28, SS, ZL1...

Just wondering why the Z28 will be faster than the SS. It's always been the other way around.
The SS was faster in strait lines, not around corners. The z/28 was made to be a street legal race car. The SS was put the biggest motor you can in it and see how fast it goes. After the first and second gen the SS package more or less disappeared. With the exception of the 1998-2002 SS's but they were modified by SLP, not GM.
__________________
Looks: AAC P13W DRLs, Heritage Grille, RS Embroidered Headrests, GM Door Sill Plates, GM Premium Floor Mats, Body Color Engine Cover, LLT Mobile 1 Oil Cap, ZL1 Sport Pedals, 3M Clear Bra.
Performance: Vararam Ram Air Intake, Hurst Short Throw Shifter w/ Hurst Hard Drive Pistol Grip, IDEALG Clutch Master Cylinder, RX Catch can, GTO clutch fluid reservoir, Brembo Brakes, 1LE Track Pack, GMPP Exhaust Upgrade.
nak3dsnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 11:10 AM   #20
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
What sized brakes do they put on the Z06? The ZR1? The Vette GS? Which weigh what? Great big useless ones...

Regardless of what GrandAm allows or disallows, expect brakes on a Z/28 production version to be superior to those currently offered on the SS, regardless of the Z/28's GVWR. Many more Z/28s (and BOSS Mustangs) will see usage in HPDE environs than GrandAm racing...and after an hour or two of runnin', none of those folks will ever accuse the Manufacturers of putting "useless big brakes" on their cars.

My "opinion" of a Z/28 is chronicled elsewhere on this forum. In appropriate threads. And my "opinion" is merely that...like yours, it's "conjecture" at this point. Time will tell...

As to your "extended rant", I'm now sorry I validated it... And don't re-use YOUR quote and attribute its content and/or suppositions to ME, as if I think Multimatic is "the Evil Empire". I made no such statement, implied or direct. I merely linked then DIRECTLY to Ford, which they are. And their direct association goes back many years, through many projects...all the way back to the mid-'90s, uninterrupted. Which partially explains their continued success...and why, once again, GM has to play "catch-up", involving racing AND Camaro vs. Mustang.

As to "money" being involved, it ALWAYS is...that is EXACTLY how the breed is advanced...

Facts, not conjecture...

You've managed to take a Production-based "When will it arrive?" thread and turn it into a "Here's what we'll race, how we'll build it, and where we'll race it" thread. Perhaps Stevenson AND the Camaro Team need your psychic and engineering abilitites...
Sorry bud, my last post was a little uncalled for, I may have prematurely linked the possible April 2012 Z28 release with the Grand Am series. Many of the post before mine referenced the Boss being the benchmark and GM being able to attain one to do just that now that the Boss is public. I was trying to make the connection between the Boss and Z28 by merely pointing out how the Boss 302 was brought to production and was pointing out that Grand Am was used as a developing tool. Knowing that, and knowing that Grand Am requires a actual production car and identifying the current Camaro GS/Grand Am situation.... We can watch the Grand Am series for any changes in the Camaro or any slip ups like the announcer video I posted.

As for the braking systems used by the Corvettes, in ALMS, the Corvette uses smaller cast iron rotors in ALMS GT2 (now just GT) and not the production carbon fiber disc brakes. The ZR1 uses carbon-ceramic 15.5" disc, 6 piston calipers in front/15.0" disc, 6 piston calipers in the rear where the ALMS GT Corvette uses cast iron 14.9" disc,6 piston calipers in front/14.0" disc, 4 piston calipers in the rear. The Corvette uses a smaller rotors because the actual car does not require the extra disc area and the extra force offered by the 6 piston calipers in the rear. The GT Corvette is 545lbs lighter than the ZR1 and as I said before, too much disc area on a car that does not need it can defeat the tires traction and even ABS if it is used. This is going to sound strange but... there is a common misconception that brakes are used to stop the car... but, "brakes are used to stop the tires that are on the wheels... the tires are used to stop the car"(A great driver once told me that). I'm not saying that prototype disc brakes are useless, I'm saying that those types of brakes are useless for a dual purpose, road and track Z28.

I believe the that both the SS (and the GT) production brake systems are not suitable for track use in their current form. I also believe that those systems could be vastly improved to see track duty as the GT's brakes showed in the production Boss 302 application as they are also used in Grand Am. While either car could easily be raced in a GT class, I would rather see the cars in the GS class race. The GT classes around the world usually are using technology that "will be in cars tomorrow" but the GS class in Grand Am is more like "what is in cars today" and this is one of the places where I think this pony car battle should be played out... but we have to get rid of those damn BMW's first.

I understand that you think this "when will it arrive" is not the appropriate thread to talk about the "Here's what we'll race, how we'll build it, and where we'll race it" but...... if the Z28 comes to light, and as this thread questions if April 2012 is appropriate, then we need to at least have an understanding of what it will be used for, how it should be built and where it will be used to get a better idea of when it will be built. We already know why... to battle the Boss 302.

It was my understanding that Team Camaro and GM were listening to the fans, I seen that first hand with the recent announcement with the 2012 Camaro changes. I'm not trying to be psychic and I'm not sure my understanding of automobiles can be considered "engineering abilities’ (at least not yet). I am only missing the final "W" here in the production Z28 and just adding my enthusiasm in hope that GM's team Camaro is listening and we will see or hear about this car soon... Again, I apologize for the aggressive post and sorry for the length of some of them
.

Last edited by thePill; 04-16-2011 at 12:59 PM.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 07:16 PM   #21
nasa.zl1
 
Drives: 2011 White Camaro
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 122
I am in a bit of a quandry, although i am on the dealer's list for a zl1 I really want a z28 (something lighter and nimble more road and track friendly at a cheap price). My problem is I have to wait to find when and if there will be a z28.

I have to get another car sometime next year and i hope GM becomes a bit more action oriented and starts to move things along a bit faster.




Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
Sorry bud, my last post was a little uncalled for, I may have prematurely linked the possible April 2012 Z28 release with the Grand Am series. Many of the post before mine referenced the Boss being the benchmark and GM being able to attain one to do just that now that the Boss is public. I was trying to make the connection between the Boss and Z28 by merely pointing out how the Boss 302 was brought to production and was pointing out that Grand Am was used as a developing tool. Knowing that, and knowing that Grand Am requires a actual production car and identifying the current Camaro GS/Grand Am situation.... We can watch the Grand Am series for any changes in the Camaro or any slip ups like the announcer video I posted.

As for the braking systems used by the Corvettes, in ALMS, the Corvette uses smaller cast iron rotors in ALMS GT2 (now just GT) and not the production carbon fiber disc brakes. The ZR1 uses carbon-ceramic 15.5" disc, 6 piston calipers in front/15.0" disc, 6 piston calipers in the rear where the ALMS GT Corvette uses cast iron 14.9" disc,6 piston calipers in front/14.0" disc, 4 piston calipers in the rear. The Corvette uses a smaller rotors because the actual car does not require the extra disc area and the extra force offered by the 6 piston calipers in the rear. The GT Corvette is 545lbs lighter than the ZR1 and as I said before, too much disc area on a car that does not need it can defeat the tires traction and even ABS if it is used. This is going to sound strange but... there is a common misconception that brakes are used to stop the car... but, "brakes are used to stop the tires that are on the wheels... the tires are used to stop the car"(A great driver once told me that). I'm not saying that prototype disc brakes are useless, I'm saying that those types of brakes are useless for a dual purpose, road and track Z28.

I believe the that both the SS (and the GT) production brake systems are not suitable for track use in their current form. I also believe that those systems could be vastly improved to see track duty as the GT's brakes showed in the production Boss 302 application as they are also used in Grand Am. While either car could easily be raced in a GT class, I would rather see the cars in the GS class race. The GT classes around the world usually are using technology that "will be in cars tomorrow" but the GS class in Grand Am is more like "what is in cars today" and this is one of the places where I think this pony car battle should be played out... but we have to get rid of those damn BMW's first.

I understand that you think this "when will it arrive" is not the appropriate thread to talk about the "Here's what we'll race, how we'll build it, and where we'll race it" but...... if the Z28 comes to light, and as this thread questions if April 2012 is appropriate, then we need to at least have an understanding of what it will be used for, how it should be built and where it will be used to get a better idea of when it will be built. We already know why... to battle the Boss 302.

It was my understanding that Team Camaro and GM were listening to the fans, I seen that first hand with the recent announcement with the 2012 Camaro changes. I'm not trying to be psychic and I'm not sure my understanding of automobiles can be considered "engineering abilities’ (at least not yet). I am only missing the final "W" here in the production Z28 and just adding my enthusiasm in hope that GM's team Camaro is listening and we will see or hear about this car soon... Again, I apologize for the aggressive post and sorry for the length of some of them
.
__________________
1969 ZL1 Camaro, "I'll be back"
nasa.zl1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 07:53 PM   #22
Z4me

 
Z4me's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 IOM Vin #169
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,938
As much as I would love to see a Z28 being produced in the year 2012 so that I could choose between the ZL1 and Z28 I just don't see it happening. I mean from a marketing scheme its like shooting yourself in the foot. Your competing with your self and the buyers that could afford either car, I just don't see it happening. GM is a company and they need to make money that's the bottom line, and also the time to develope thier cars the right way. The Z28 will make its appearance I have no dought about that, due to the interest that's been shown here and at the various auto shows. But you need to be realistic about things and the timing of
introducing new products.

Last edited by Z4me; 04-16-2011 at 08:10 PM.
Z4me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 08:08 PM   #23
nasa.zl1
 
Drives: 2011 White Camaro
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 122
GM can either compete against themselves with zl1 or z28 or lose some sales to the Boss for those who want an affordable type of z28 car. For myself i'll either get the zl1 or a 2012 Camaro v6. The 2012 Camaro has 323 HP and it is light and agile (track friendly).




Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4me View Post
As much as I would love to see a Z28 being produced in tghe year 2012 so that I could choose between the ZL1 and Z28 I just don't see it happening. I mean from a marketing scheme its like shooting yourself in the foot. Your competing with your self and the buyers that could afford either car, I just don't see it happening. GM is a company and they need to make money that's the bottom line, and also the time to develope thier cars the right way. The Z28 will make its appearance I have no dought about that, due to the interest that's been shown here and at the various auto shows. But you need to be realistic about things and the timing of
introducing new products.
__________________
1969 ZL1 Camaro, "I'll be back"
nasa.zl1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 08:11 PM   #24
Z4me

 
Z4me's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 IOM Vin #169
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,938
There ya go sounds like a plan to me
Z4me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 09:02 PM   #25
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4me View Post
As much as I would love to see a Z28 being produced in the year 2012 so that I could choose between the ZL1 and Z28 I just don't see it happening. I mean from a marketing scheme its like shooting yourself in the foot. Your competing with your self and the buyers that could afford either car, I just don't see it happening. GM is a company and they need to make money that's the bottom line, and also the time to develope thier cars the right way. The Z28 will make its appearance I have no dought about that, due to the interest that's been shown here and at the various auto shows. But you need to be realistic about things and the timing of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4me View Post
introducing new products.
I understand how you feel man and I'm sure there are many enthusiast on this site that feels like you do. Torn between a ZL1 or a Z28 does seem like a dilemma for GM. But the enthusiast on this site and all the other sites make up only about 1% of the actual sales. Real car enthusiast are found here and for the most part, are the only people who feel your pain. Regular people won't see these cars (Z28), because regular people will be trampled on by the group of people I'm going to talk about now.... The other crowd, and this would be the same crowd who invested in the Boss 302 idea, is the race crowd. The SCCA, NASA and FIA have a much larger, committed crowd. They are the kind of people that have the money in their pocket and are dedicated to racing almost full time. This is what the Boss was aimed at and this is who the Boss was sold too... This is what the Boss was for. I know GM is just getting started in the GT500's class and this is probably a scary time for GM. This is also the Camaro's 45th anniversary and I have to admit, the 45th Ann Camaro is the best anniversary Camaro ever.

I know it seems like they are shooting themselves in the leg here but I believe they will sell all their ZL1s. The Z28 will have no trouble selling as well, I might even personally have a plan to fulfill the slight increase in production without dipping into the ZL1/Convertible. This Z28 needs to be built, they know how to build it because they built the SSX for a reason, probably trying to see how much weight could be reduced in the car. They are already parting the SSX out now, what’s to say that still couldn't continue. I'm not saying bring it out tomorrow, I’m not saying bring it out next year.. but by fall 2012 we should hear word of the upcoming Z28 and I feel like it can be done on the 5th gens chassis.

If it isn't done, I will be convinced that either the 5th gen Camaro is just not worthy of the Z28 name or the Z28 name is just not that big of a deal. We are currently enjoying a time in US automobiles that is GREATER than the 60s and 70s... I would like to see it all. It might not sound realistic, but Ford is trudging ahead through the adversity of fuel prices and emissions and sticking to the one thing that brought our cars to light... racing... I will continue my campaign... all I want to know is, who’s coming with me?
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New 2012 Camaro Z28 Video Tran Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 56 11-19-2010 09:35 PM
Want to Trade My 9th-Off-the-Production-Line 2010 Camaro for a 2012 Z28. clove503 Autos For Sale / Wanted 19 10-09-2010 11:36 PM
Possible new option packages changes wanted for '11 '12 model years PYROLYSIS 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 91 09-15-2010 05:15 PM
When do you think GM will release Z28 specs? Z_Rocks Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 33 09-14-2010 03:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.