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Old 04-15-2011, 07:09 AM   #1
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comparing the Mustang(s) and ZL1

I admit I am tempted by the Boss Mustang. That's because I had a 70 once and it was a cool car. Motor Trend says the 2012 Boss ran 12.3 in 1/4 mile. They also tested the GT 350 and it ran 12.0
However, I am past the graphics, look at me, days and think the ZL1 is nicely understated but is bold enough to be recognized.
Not particularly happy that it continues to gain weight as that's a lot of tonnage to haul around. Ford's weight platform has an advantage.
The car needs to be an 11 second car to compete with the two above not to mention the GT500, and the price needs to be in the ball park.
With Ford flooding the market with all sorts of performance choices, GT, Boss, GT350, GT500, Chevrolet needs to get the ZL1 right from the start.
How close do you get to Corvette before you threaten it ?
It's good times for us to have these choices and performance that beats the 60's by far.
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:36 AM   #2
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I think one of the biggest problems for the Camaro is having the 'Vette as a sibling. Though they are targeted at different buyers, how can GM not be concerned about sales cannibalization, if the performance is too close between the two? Hopefully the C7 'Vette will have a much higher performance envelope, allowing the Camaro's to perhaps fall in line with the current C6's capabilities. I don't doubt for one minute that the 5th gen Camaro has the potential to outperform the Mustang, it's the "family dynamics" that are making things a little sticky...
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:37 AM   #3
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Another way to look at these "family dynamics" is to consider
the fact that GM might take Ford out of the running for many
consumers. Instead of a person debating between a Camaro and
a Mustang, they just might start debating between a Camaro and
a Corvette. GM FTW!
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:37 PM   #4
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Chevrolet needs to get the ZL1 right from the start.
no doubt
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:08 PM   #5
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My understanding is that Ford will make 4000 Boss 302's and that all of them have been spoken for. Very few of them sold for the $41,000 MSRP. I hope you find what you are looking for.
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Old 04-16-2011, 06:36 AM   #6
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I'm pretty sure the GT350 is not a factory Ford offering. I also feel very few people actually cross-shop between a sportscar (Corvette) and a ponycar (Camaro or Mustang), as each serves its own purpose as a vehicle. If I were to step onto a dealer lot looking for a Corvette, you're not going to convince me to buy a Camaro instead. The same is true in reverse.

I'd recommend that everyone quit worrying about keeping up with the Jones's and require GM to simply build the best quality cars it can. The rest will work itself out.
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Old 04-16-2011, 01:12 PM   #7
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I think its time for chevy to drop the "Corvette Halo" and start maximizing the camaro to its fullest potential. In terms of the camaro engine choices, IMO I feel that chevy is fully maximized in terms of total power and ease of manufacturing (aka warranties and reliability). What we need to see in the camaros going forward is a continuous push in making the car lighter, more agile with handling, and at cost effective pricing. Chevy shouldn't worry whether a camaro could perform as well as a vette (or better) because a top performing camaro should generate excitement into the pony car segment, which could ultimately generate more sales. Better tuning and performance numbers would also encourage the corvette to get better as well.

As far as the mustang, Chevy's camaro has demonstrated that it can compete and dominate against its rival in the past, thus the camaro should be able to beat it in the days ahead. The Chevy Camaro (and company) has to be as willing to compete and uptick its status as vigorously as the Ford Mustang. In terms of the Challenger the camaro seems to be safe; Just do not ignore the Challenger because it is a car that is still in the performance war games.
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:47 PM   #8
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i understand the natural order of things, the vette is the top dog etc. But in all honesty, what really would be bad about the camaro being as fast or faster than a vette. How fast the car is, isnt the only thing people consider when they buy a car.
Like why does it have to have a liner progression from good to bad.
Whats the worse thing that could really happen. Someone buys a camaro instead of a vette. People already do that and its obviously not because of the speed diff. And it better than them going and buying a mustang or some other performance car.
Personally, i would never buy a vette no matter how much money i had to blow. At least not any of the modern vettes, they simply dont look good to me.
But i love the idea of owning a vette as its a true American classic, i just wish they looked better.

but whatever, im just really bored right now.
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Old 04-16-2011, 05:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larietrope View Post
I admit I am tempted by the Boss Mustang. That's because I had a 70 once and it was a cool car. Motor Trend says the 2012 Boss ran 12.3 in 1/4 mile. They also tested the GT 350 and it ran 12.0
However, I am past the graphics, look at me, days and think the ZL1 is nicely understated but is bold enough to be recognized.
Not particularly happy that it continues to gain weight as that's a lot of tonnage to haul around. Ford's weight platform has an advantage.
The car needs to be an 11 second car to compete with the two above not to mention the GT500, and the price needs to be in the ball park.
With Ford flooding the market with all sorts of performance choices, GT, Boss, GT350, GT500, Chevrolet needs to get the ZL1 right from the start.
How close do you get to Corvette before you threaten it ?
It's good times for us to have these choices and performance that beats the 60's by far.
1. It should not be too much a problem since no one cross shop the vette or camaro.
2. The C7 Vette is not that far out and it is expected to be a 200-300lbs or more lighter than the current C6, with a Gen V V8. I bet the C7 will be about 1,000lbs lighter than the ZL1.
3. The Vette will always have a performance advantage over the camaro since the vette will always be a much lighter vehicle. The fact that it is a 2-seater apeals to a different market aswell.

edit: Also lets not forget that the Mustang is Ford's Corvette.
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbls1 View Post
I think its time for chevy to drop the "Corvette Halo" and start maximizing the camaro to its fullest potential. In terms of the camaro engine choices, IMO I feel that chevy is fully maximized in terms of total power and ease of manufacturing (aka warranties and reliability). What we need to see in the camaros going forward is a continuous push in making the car lighter, more agile with handling, and at cost effective pricing. Chevy shouldn't worry whether a camaro could perform as well as a vette (or better) because a top performing camaro should generate excitement into the pony car segment, which could ultimately generate more sales. Better tuning and performance numbers would also encourage the corvette to get better as well.




Right on target there. I fully concur.

Yes, I was one of those hoping for 600 plus at the crank from the factory.
I want my ZL1 to help me grab a quarter in eleven-something seconds.


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Old 04-18-2011, 05:00 AM   #11
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There has historically been a policy to not let the Camaro threaten the Corvette from a performance stand point but I read something last year that was talking about how they were having to temporarily ignore it. With the current Corvette getting pretty old and sales numbers hurting they can't let the brand new high volume Camaro lag behind the competition. I think the C7 is going to be very impressive but with the Camaro/Mustang war being so competitive it will have to really step it's game up.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:11 AM   #12
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The Camaro is not a threat to the Corvette. First, they are two completely different cars with two completely different buyers.

Second, the Camaro is nowhere close to the Corvette. Sure, the ZL1 probably matches the base Corvette in a straight line. The Vette will still beat the ZL1 in other performance categories. (lets not forget that the Vette weighs almost 1000 lbs less than the ZL1). And that is the top Camaro against the starter Corvette. Make the Corvette a ZO6 or a ZR1, and there is no comparison.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:00 PM   #13
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There has historically been a policy to not let the Camaro threaten the Corvette from a performance stand point but I read something last year that was talking about how they were having to temporarily ignore it. With the current Corvette getting pretty old and sales numbers hurting they can't let the brand new high volume Camaro lag behind the competition. I think the C7 is going to be very impressive but with the Camaro/Mustang war being so competitive it will have to really step it's game up.
+1
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
There has historically been a policy to not let the Camaro threaten the Corvette from a performance stand point but I read something last year that was talking about how they were having to temporarily ignore it. With the current Corvette getting pretty old and sales numbers hurting they can't let the brand new high volume Camaro lag behind the competition. I think the C7 is going to be very impressive but with the Camaro/Mustang war being so competitive it will have to really step it's game up.


even if the ZL-1 is a faster (in a straight line) and more powerful than the base corvette.. WHO CARES??? they are 2 different cars. If a corvette fanatic really wants a super fast car, they will save and spend the extra money to get a ZO6 or ZR1 ...

i see no reason the ZL-1 cant be faster and more powerful than the BASE corvette... the base corvette will still WAYYYYY out-handle the bulky camaro....

now if the ZL-1 approaches the straight line numbers of the Z06, then we have a new ballgame (although extremely unlikely)
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:32 PM   #15
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A Mustang/ZL1 thread turns into a Camaro/Corvette thread.....I LOVE IT.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:51 PM   #16
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A Mustang/ZL1 thread turns into a Camaro/Corvette thread.....I LOVE IT.
well, I guess nobody want to talk much about fords
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