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Old 04-20-2011, 11:34 PM   #1
bmorecam
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CEL, long tube, whats the truth?

Today I decided to stop by to see an old buddy of mine who just happened to be having his 370z tuned today(by the way he is pulling almost 379 hp to the rear)and kinda got to talking about my camaro with the peoples who work there.
So this one dude that was helping with the dyno asked me what I have done so far and I tell him my mods and I also tell him that I am running with CEL, immediately he ask ''u didnt tune your car!?" and when I told him no everybody all of a sudden started telling me how my car is probably running rich and my AF is all out of order and how my car is probably not running any better.
I told them other than the CEL my car seem to be running quicker and that I dont notice any problem, then on my way home it got me thinking and kinda got me doubting my own judgement, my car does seem to be idling rougher and my exhaust been popping alot with even a little slight pop almost like a backfire when I come to a complete stop. Isnt this an indication that my car is running rich? Also, my car does act different some days, like one day it drive kinda sluggish and sometimes like a bat out of hell. Is this an indication that my AF might be fluctuating or is this just my mind playing tricks on me?
So I come home tonight and start searching this forum about running without a tune and CEL, and to my surprise those guys was not kidding! there are plenty of posts on v8 section where this type of problems were discussed, but like before its a mixed bag of opinions.
So what is the truth? Is running without a tune and CEL actually hurting my car or its performance, or is all this just a bologna and tuning is just a choice?
I already know that tuning will defenitely help me maximize my HP with mods even tho I hear that is only couple horses that we are leaving on the table before the tune, but I wonder if not tuning is actually hurting our car when we are replacing the factory cats, manifold, exhaust etc.
In a way I feel like I am just being paranoid but I have to clear this up
Any easy way to see where my AF is at this point?
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:37 AM   #2
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Only got one thing to say. Tune the damn car lol... Tuning is so important when it comes to bolt-ons... we just take it for granted cuz the camaros do well without a tune.

My friend who drives a 2010 STI, thought he could just slap on a new intake and gain. Nope, turned out he lost so much torque... so he sold his intake. Then later realized it was just because he didn't tune his car.

My friend whose Camaro I tuned, said his engine died somehow. I think there was a misfire... eitherway, he had to restart the car, but it scared him a bit. Frankly I think you could possibly be hurting your motor... so again, tune it. And yes, it will free up more power, and it will run a lot smoother.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:20 AM   #3
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Well, I just recently got my car dyno'd, as you might have seen. I talked to my shop and he said it was knocking for sure. Had nothing to do with being on a bad coil or not connected right. My AFR was just fine, so it's not hurting anything. I will go back and get a dyno with a base run, then with colder plugs, then the new throttle body. And then finally a dyno with a tune a few weeks later.
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Old 04-21-2011, 05:03 AM   #4
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I have had my car on the stock tune this entire week, I am about to have her inspected. I can feel the sluggishness in the performance delivery and I have to take it easy on pushing her too much, because once I tried to go from 4th to 5th while I was punching it and I got this real weird sensation from the car. Hard to describe, but I know I never got that when I had the car tuned.

Short simple......after doing major mods like intake and LTs, my car needs a tune to make efficient use of that added power. Now about the CEL, well I never got it last year when I hadn't tuned the car for about 100 miles after the mods.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagan323 View Post
Only got one thing to say. Tune the damn car lol... Tuning is so important when it comes to bolt-ons... we just take it for granted cuz the camaros do well without a tune.

My friend who drives a 2010 STI, thought he could just slap on a new intake and gain. Nope, turned out he lost so much torque... so he sold his intake. Then later realized it was just because he didn't tune his car.

My friend whose Camaro I tuned, said his engine died somehow. I think there was a misfire... eitherway, he had to restart the car, but it scared him a bit. Frankly I think you could possibly be hurting your motor... so again, tune it. And yes, it will free up more power, and it will run a lot smoother.
If the vararam was in my car right now Im sure that trifecta would of been too Its just that I am waiting for that one more piece that everybody is waiting for.
This is my first time running a car with all this mods and no tune, but our v6 is so limited with tuning anyway. I wish it was like my old STi where I can just run to turboXS and get a comprehensive dyno tune.
I knew it was not my mind playing tricks My car is defenitely running rich as ever and the idling is just a little too rough for a brand new car even with a long tube
Does anyone know if theres anyway I can check my AF easily??
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:44 AM   #6
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Update: I had the stock tune for about 50 miles or so this week, and the CEL turned on this morning. No biggie....I will clear it. But now I know how long the Camaro can go w/o that coming on, on a stock tune.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:33 PM   #7
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As I understood it in the old days of computerized emission control, the system started in "open loop" until everything got up to operating temp and all systems reported "go". It would then go to "closed loop" and vary fuel, timing etc.. to meet emission standards.

Until it closed, fuel mixture was intentionally rich.

If the computer saw data indicating a mechanical problem (catalytic converter variation perhaps), the system would return to open loop-sometimes referred to as 'limp home mode', and go rich.

I don't know about the newer versions but it goes to follow that if your O2 sensors are reading lean and fuel injection increases output to a maximum criteria (trim), and the computer still doesn't see correction, the manufacturer would have the system go full rich and signal "service engine soon" to prevent significant damage to the engine.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:04 PM   #8
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i believe the long tubes only throw a CEL for the rear o2 sensors. the front ones control fuel and emmisions, the rear ones i think are just a confirmation. but i am no expert. i am sure there are quite a few camaros with long tubes running no tune and having no issues.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:26 PM   #9
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I just bought LT headers and was definitely planning on getting it tuned from the research i was doing on headers.

But didnt know about having to get it tuned after installing an intake. oops.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:42 PM   #10
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I think this thread is going to confuse people.

Guys, there should be no NEED for a tune after installing a properly made intake that is designed correctly. So without going on and on, you do not need a tune from just an intake unless you have installed something not specifcally designed for this car. If it is designed and the intake is 'tuned' right from the manufacturer, its fine.

I also still do not believe you HAVE to get tuned after doing LTs. All the reading and research and dynos on here lead me to believe the car will not hurt itself by just installing LTs. Can a tune help to make your car run better, and optimize the power? Sure it can! Will throwing on LTs throw off your AFR so bad that your car won't run any better or worse than it was before LTs.....no it shouldn't. As PoorMan said earlier, his dyno run with LTs untuned showed an AFR level pretty dang close to where it needs to be. I've seen other dyno runs where guys only gained a few more HP after a tune (with intake, exhaust, and LTs installed) so obviously the car wasn't running terrible beforehand.

I can understand why the guys at the shop jumped your case after hearing your untuned , but for the Camaro V6 it is not something you HAVE to do right away to protect your car and realize gains.

Now, in the case of someone with intake, exhaust, headers, and other bolt ons do I think they could benefit from a tune? Yes of course, and I think you could too.

Are you killing your performance by not having one? No.

Thats my .02
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
I think this thread is going to confuse people.

Guys, there should be no NEED for a tune after installing a properly made intake that is designed correctly. So without going on and on, you do not need a tune from just an intake unless you have installed something not specifcally designed for this car. If it is designed and the intake is 'tuned' right from the manufacturer, its fine.

I also still do not believe you HAVE to get tuned after doing LTs. All the reading and research and dynos on here lead me to believe the car will not hurt itself by just installing LTs. Can a tune help to make your car run better, and optimize the power? Sure it can! Will throwing on LTs throw off your AFR so bad that your car won't run any better or worse than it was before LTs.....no it shouldn't. As PoorMan said earlier, his dyno run with LTs untuned showed an AFR level pretty dang close to where it needs to be. I've seen other dyno runs where guys only gained a few more HP after a tune (with intake, exhaust, and LTs installed) so obviously the car wasn't running terrible beforehand.

I can understand why the guys at the shop jumped your case after hearing your untuned , but for the Camaro V6 it is not something you HAVE to do right away to protect your car and realize gains.

Now, in the case of someone with intake, exhaust, headers, and other bolt ons do I think they could benefit from a tune? Yes of course, and I think you could too.

Are you killing your performance by not having one? No.

Thats my .02
You are right about everything but you forgot to mention that the CEL does light up if you don't have it tuned. Mine did after 50 miles or so this week of running on the stock tune.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:49 PM   #12
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KMPRENGER.. Your answer is always refreshingHaaaa...
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:54 PM   #13
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You are right about everything but you forgot to mention that the CEL does light up if you don't have it tuned. Mine did after 50 miles or so this week of running on the stock tune.
You are correct! (I just assumed that was mostly understood already so I didn't mention it lol)

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KMPRENGER.. Your answer is always refreshingHaaaa...
lol, well I'm no expert thats forsure...but I do try lol.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:59 PM   #14
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lol, well I'm no expert thats forsure...but I do try lol.
Why so MODEST?!
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