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Old 02-24-2009, 11:47 PM   #1
zebra
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so much for a T-56 swap!

lately i've been researching how to swap my 5 speed for a T-56. i've been anxiously awaiting the day my transmission craps out so i can switch it out. wow, is it way more involved and expensive than i imagined! from the initial things i'd read about it, it didn't seem that complicated, but after i delved farther into it, i realized it would take so much more modification than the normal conversions, considering my particular setup. the usual trucks people convert are 2WD V8s that had the 4l60e. my truck's a 4WD V6 5-spd. the biggest difference for me is the fact that i would have to have a custom-made tail shaft to connect the transfer case (quite expensive) and i would have 2 differentials to change instead of 1. i'd hope the 4.3 bolts right up like the 5.3, but if it's like the 4.8 or the LQ4, it has to have a spacer on the flywheel. as for cosmetics, i'd have to get new carpet from an automatic truck so i don't have a huge hole from the old shifter (the T-56 shifter comes through about 12" farther back), and i'd have to take out the middle seat (again because of the shifter). many other factors go into it all, and it's starting to seem like more trouble than it's worth.

looking back, i don't really know if there's a specific point to this thread, but if anybody has any advise to offer, it'd be welcomed.
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:20 AM   #2
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Sorry wish I could help the last swap I made in a truck was a friend made a AWD S10 using 5.7L SB, AWD transfer case out of a Astro van and 4WD S10. No nothing about the swap your trying
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:17 PM   #3
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keep the 5 speed or get a new truck...
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:22 PM   #4
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keep the 5 speed or get a new truck...
why? i sure ain't gonna find a GM 6-spd pickup outside of a HD towing transmission. when i finally get the money to do my engine swap, it'll be a much better tranny to have than this Getrag
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:32 PM   #5
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why? i sure ain't gonna find a GM 6-spd pickup outside of a HD towing transmission. when i finally get the money to do my engine swap, it'll be a much better tranny to have than this Getrag
wait your swapping the whole engine as well?
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:49 AM   #6
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If you're planning on swapping the engine down the road also, you'd be better off doing the engine and trans at the same time.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:53 AM   #7
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wait your swapping the whole engine as well?
not right now, but it's a future consideration. i'm thinking probably a 5.3 with a few mods. nothin too extreme (although a turbo could come in handy sometimes!)
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:54 AM   #8
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If you're planning on swapping the engine down the road also, you'd be better off doing the engine and trans at the same time.
probably, but i don't know when the engine swap might come about, and i'd like the added benefits of the better transmission regardless of if i have the V8 or not.
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Old 02-26-2009, 03:39 PM   #9
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Trade it on a new Camaro SS!
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Old 02-26-2009, 03:52 PM   #10
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why didnt you ask me?

shoot me a pm with everything you are wanting to do with the truck, engine, trans, whatever
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:46 PM   #11
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Trade it on a new Camaro SS!
i'll still need a truck. my friends, family, & i use the bed too much to not have it. i'm actually gonna be moving some furniture again in the next few days.

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why didnt you ask me?
i was actually waiting to see if you found this thread!

i know most of what's involved. it's more of a question of whether or not it's worth it to go through it all.

here's a rough list of what i'll need (off the top of my head):
  • T56 off an Fbody
  • short throw kit and a new shift arm
  • LS6 or LS7 clutch (preferably)
  • flywheel off an Fbody
  • stronger clutch hoses
  • custom tail shaft to connect to transfer case
  • shorter drive shaft
  • new front & rear differentials
  • carpet from an automatic (to cover the old shifter hole)
  • computer retune
  • possibly a flywheel spacer (depending on how it mates to the 4.3)

lots of stuff & labor. i'd also probably lose my middle seat (which i use somewhat often) due to the new shifter. if so, there's a few guys who make shifters that will work with a Tahoe console to fill the empty space. that's even more work & money.

AAHHH!!! decisions!!!
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:54 PM   #12
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Well spike ....

Enlighten us
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:59 PM   #13
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Well spike ....

Enlighten us
http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...d.php?t=381877
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:41 PM   #14
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are you planning on sticking with the 4.3? or upgrading to a 5.3?


parts you will need that I can think of off the top of my head.

* T56 transmission, bellhousing, slave cylinder extension piece, clutch fork, fork t-stud, inspection cover, shifter, flywheel, pressure plate w/throwout bearing, clutch disk, clutch alignment tool.
* master cylinder with U-bolt, slave cylinder, reservoir
* new roller pilot bearing
* T56 tranny crossmember, tranny mount (can use A4 tranny mount - recommend polyurethane)
* exhaust mount, torque arm bracket, torque arm bushing (can use A4 TA bushing)
* pedal assembly with all the switches and clip for clutch pedal
* shifter console insert (replaces automatic shifter insert)
* lower shift boot
* bolts - bellhousing to tranny, flywheel, pressure plate to flywheel, slave cylinder nuts, master cylinder U-bolt nuts, inspection cover screws, lower shift boot screws.
* 4 quarts of Dexron III
* brake fluid if necessary
* flywheel spacer depending on the trans

Deciding on a clutch and pressure plate combo really depends on your power levels. Clutches available are - GM stock, Centerforce, STAR, McLeod, SLP, and others. The most popular clutches right now are the Street Twin and STAR clutch Stage II and III. From what I have heard, Centerforce is junk, the Street Twin is difficult to setup, the STAR clutch can be grabby/chatter, and the SLP clutch can only handle so much power - so you can't always win. Do not forget, the flywheel most be resurfaced and balanced the same as your flexplate (or neutral balanced if you have an internally balanced/built motor).




a good start....

most everything you need to know




pictures of a blazer t56 swap
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:43 PM   #15
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also... some things to increase some power for the 4.3

http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_0...nce/index.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ild/index.html
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:49 PM   #16
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are you planning on sticking with the 4.3? or upgrading to a 5.3?
for now, the 4.3 stays (maybe til it dies, which could be a while). if the money becomes available, i might do a 5.3 swap

thanks for the help, but all the A4 stuff is irrelevant, mine's a M5


also, from what i read, the bellhousing i have will work fine, as will the master & slave cylinders

again, i appreciate the info!
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:55 PM   #17
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good articles!

i've seen the first one a few times before & the second was pretty informative, but if i was gonna go that far into the engine, i'd be better off building a bigger V8.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra View Post
for now, the 4.3 stays (maybe til it dies, which could be a while). if the money becomes available, i might do a 5.3 swap

thanks for the help, but all the A4 stuff is irrelevant, mine's a M5


also, from what i read, the bellhousing i have will work fine, as will the master & slave cylinders

again, i appreciate the info!
no problem. yeah, I am so used to people swapping from auto to manual. ill see if I can find some more info.


tho depending on your budget, I could probably find you a 5.3 with a t56 for around 1200.
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Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
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Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
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Quote:
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:37 PM   #19
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no problem. yeah, I am so used to people swapping from auto to manual. ill see if I can find some more info.


tho depending on your budget, I could probably find you a 5.3 with a t56 for around 1200.
really?! that would be awesome...

except for the fact that right now, i only have $250 to my name!
i won't be able to start this project for a while.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
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really?! that would be awesome...

except for the fact that right now, i only have $250 to my name!
i won't be able to start this project for a while.
well, a lot of people swap out the 5.3 for a 5.7, 6.0 or a 6.2+, but the 5.3 is a mean little contender. that being said, the 4.3 is a mean little contender as well.
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

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Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
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I piss excellence
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"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:03 PM   #21
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well, a lot of people swap out the 5.3 for a 5.7, 6.0 or a 6.2+, but the 5.3 is a mean little contender. that being said, the 4.3 is a mean little contender as well.
yeah... the 4.3's took everything i've thrown at it (except a firm stomp on the go pedal ) i actually would've beat that escape... sorry, tribute (he makes a firm point to make that distinction) except i missed 3rd (which i now know was because i need to do the drill mod).



...now for the update...


first decision - engine.

i've considered the 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, 6.2, LS1, LS6, LS7. let's face it, the LS6 & LS7 are WAY out of my price range & are overkill for what i need. this is a 4x4 truck - not a road racer :( i just need a little extra under the hood. (the lesser side of a lot extra would be nice). LS1 swaps, from what i read, can be an awful pain if you ain't wanting an all-out built engine. the 4.8 - not worth the swap. 6.2 - too new & expensive. that leaves 5.3 & 6.0 on the table. for what i want, the 5.3 would be the better choice because it's a bit more efficient & more readily available (cheaper).

now for the transmission (because i doubt the stock NV3500 will cut it. it's only rated for 300lb-ft. i've seen guys who've kept it behind a 5.3, dogged it, and it was fine. that rating is for 7200lbs GVWR, so i got plenty of wiggle room @ 4500lbs curb on this truck, but why chance it?)

i've spent the past few days doing some more digging and came to the conclusion that a T56 is right out. way too big of a pain in the butt to try & mate to a transfer case (i've only heard of it being done once & that was expensive due to a bunch of custom fabrication that had to be done). another option would be to gank the ZF S6-650 from a 2500HD, but i'd need a 3" body lift to fit it under the cab, so that's a no-go. one of the more obvious solutions would be to switch to a NV4500, but not only is that sucker much heavier (still no where near as heavy as the 650), but the first 3 gears are even lower than the ones i have now, so... no.

possible solution: the NV3500HD - a nice little gem i finally found. it's basically the same as the NV3500, except it's got stronger internals & rated for 340lb-ft. the first 3 gears are a little better for what i want as well.

xxxxxxxxxx1stxxx2ndxxx3rdxxx4thxxx5thxxxrev
stockxxxxx4.02xx2.32xx1.40xx1.00xx0.73xx3.55
3500HDxxx3.49xx2.14xx1.38xx1.00xx0.73xx3.55

the only problem is that they only came on the 4.7 & 5.2 dakotas and i don't know if the bellhousings are the same. that could be a problem seeing as how the housing is part of the casing with both the 3500 & 3500HD. i'd imagine they'd mate up... especially since the NV3500 was also used on dodge trucks with the 3.9 & sometimes the 5.2



...verdict...

all that said, i think when the time comes, i'll be going with the 5.3 mated to the NV3500HD. Hurst also made a STS for it (it just went out of production a month ago, but can still be found). another perk is that i won't have two differentials to change - i can keep the stock 3.73s & be fine. the swap should be pretty straightforward since everything is the same dimensions as parts that were OEM.

i guess i'll have to necro the crap out of this thread when i actually get to do this stuff! lots of pics will be an order (assuming i ever break down & buy a camera)
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
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keep the 5 speed or get a new truck...
yeah... i already quoted this once, but...

this is another example of people always saying "just sell it & buy what you want"
the inherent flaw with this statement is that most gearheads wouldn't be trying to do a custom job if they could've bought it that way.

my personal example:
i'm looking to have a RCSB GMT800 light duty truck with a stout V8, 5 or 6 speed manual, and 4x4. there literally is almost no possibility of buying this now because 1999 was the only year GM even let anybody order the 5.3 with a manual (the 5spd), so how many people do you think ordered this combo? how many, after 10 yrs, are still in good shape? how many of the ones left in consideration do you think the owners will actually part with?

that's the whole point of customization - to get the exact vehicle that suits your needs & desires. long gone are the days when car companies gave you an option sheet and let you check off the individual items you wanted. it's all about packages now. that makes it easier/cheaper to produce, speeds up QC in the factory, and makes more money for the company by making you buy crap you might not want just because it's "part of the package"

okay... i'm done ranting!
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:15 AM   #23
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just thought i'd share (while we're on the T56 subject)

the 2003 SEMA concept Regular Cab Silverado SS





(sorry for the small pics, that's all i can find)

basically a 395hp/409lb-ft full size that would rape a bunch of cars!
read more here:
http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/aut...vrolet/ss.html
http://media.gm.com/events/sema/02se...eg_cab_ss.html
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl..._ss/index.html

something like this would've been much better than the let-down of a Silverado SS that actually made production. it was powered by a basic mock-up of what turned into the LQ9. it was an iron LQ4 with milled LS6 heads, LS6 intake, custom cam, and custom LTs. it uses a T56 to put all the power to the 3:73 LSD on the back (why they didn't go with 4.10s, i don't know). to get a more stable rear end, they fabricated the 5-link tahoe rear suspension to the truck frame. an Eibach/Bilstein lowering setup that still happily fits some Eagle 295/55R20s made for a solid, sticky ride. if they'd used that AWD transfer case with that, . the interior stayed pretty true to the classic SS mentality in that it had the cloth 40/20/40 bench seat, AM/FM radio, and HVAC. instead of carpet, the floor was covered in the W/T vinyl. this truck was meant to move! they even wanted to keep it under $30k! now only if it wasn't black!

Last edited by zebra; 03-12-2009 at 03:35 PM.
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