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Old 05-07-2011, 09:56 AM   #1
PercyJWellingtonIII
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2012 V6 Camaro aiming for 13sec times.

I hear the 2012 v6 is shooting for stock 1/4mi times in the high 13s. Probababy 13.9something with the new engine. How will it do it? We all know it will lose 20lb of weight on the new engine yet gain just 11hp more with no change in torque. So how will new engine accomplish this feat? Start with a new cylinder head design with integrated exhaust manifold.
- Improved intake port design and larger intake valves within the cylinder heads.
- Longer-duration intake camshafts.
- Composite intake manifold.
- New fuel pump and isolated fuel rail.
- New, optimized-flow fuel injectors.
- Structural front cover and cylinder block enhancements.
- Stronger and lighter-weight connecting rods. How will it accomplish this new performance numbers?
With the above changes the new engine will rely mostly on quicker revs do to lightweight internal moving parts. Revs hould be substantialy quicker than the current v6 Especially at take off which is what the v6 his been lacking in my opinion. Quicker more instant revs to get you out of the hole and an additional 11hp to pull you through may be what it takes to get into the 13s. Adding and CAI and exhaust will pretty much guarantee it.
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:32 AM   #2
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So you think losing 20lbs in the engine and 11HP will give it a 1/4 mile time that is .5 sec better? I don't think so and here's why....

You haven't accounted for weight changes in the interior like the new dash trim, steering wheel, new rear view mirror w/ backup camera, new mechanicals in the front passenger seat. How much will all this weigh? I think the 20lb weight reduction will be closer to 15-10lbs when all is said and done. Besides, the Camaro V6 needs more torque for a faster 1/4 mile.

Oh, and saying that a CAI and exhaust will guarantee it? No kidding, guys here on C5 are already posting times down into 13.7 range but that wouldn't be in the 13's stock now would it?
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:37 AM   #3
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:55 AM   #4
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Folks..HP is a fluffy number. HP basically ensures top speed and how long you can maintain that speed. Torque is where the money is at.

This is exactly why on paper the 2011 Camaro V6 and the 2010 Mustang GT are "so close", 312 and 315 are basically even. However, the GT put out 325 foot lbs of torque (IIRC) vs the 270 of the Camaro. In reality the GT is alot quicker than the V6 Camaro despite being "only 3 HP apart".

If the V6 Camaro wants to hit high 13's it needs to shed some weight and pick up some torque. If they could find a way to get it to 320 HP and 300 TQ, you'd see the V6 in the 13 second bracket.
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:58 AM   #5
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They also need to do something about the 1-2 shift in the manual trans cars...any more power means squat if you can't shift it correctly to transfer it to the wheels.
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:06 PM   #6
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They also need to do something about the 1-2 shift in the manual trans cars...any more power means squat if you can't shift it correctly to transfer it to the wheels.
+1
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:10 PM   #7
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Anyone doing turbos and/or bigger rear ends for the v6s??
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
Folks..HP is a fluffy number. HP basically ensures top speed and how long you can maintain that speed. Torque is where the money is at.

This is exactly why on paper the 2011 Camaro V6 and the 2010 Mustang GT are "so close", 312 and 315 are basically even. However, the GT put out 325 foot lbs of torque (IIRC) vs the 270 of the Camaro. In reality the GT is alot quicker than the V6 Camaro despite being "only 3 HP apart".

If the V6 Camaro wants to hit high 13's it needs to shed some weight and pick up some torque. If they could find a way to get it to 320 HP and 300 TQ, you'd see the V6 in the 13 second bracket.
Completely agree but what makes a car like the M3 with 414HP but 295ft-lb so fast?
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:13 PM   #9
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I don't see it happening. Just my .02
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
Folks..HP is a fluffy number. HP basically ensures top speed and how long you can maintain that speed. Torque is where the money is at.

This is exactly why on paper the 2011 Camaro V6 and the 2010 Mustang GT are "so close", 312 and 315 are basically even. However, the GT put out 325 foot lbs of torque (IIRC) vs the 270 of the Camaro. In reality the GT is alot quicker than the V6 Camaro despite being "only 3 HP apart".

If the V6 Camaro wants to hit high 13's it needs to shed some weight and pick up some torque. If they could find a way to get it to 320 HP and 300 TQ, you'd see the V6 in the 13 second bracket.
I agree, and your example is exactly why. But I do think that is what GM is aiming for... high 13's (they can do it if they really want). I also believe that they should aim for low 12's for the SS, but that's just me.
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #11
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LOL...I am sure GM would love to hear your input on what they are attempting with this engine. I am sure they could use some Jr. Engineers for some good tips on what works and what wont.
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:49 PM   #12
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Slow forever.
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:42 PM   #13
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Completely agree but what makes a car like the M3 with 414HP but 295ft-lb so fast?

7 speed DCT. Torque multiplication + lightning fast shifts.
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:43 PM   #14
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Completely agree but what makes a car like the M3 with 414HP but 295ft-lb so fast?
Its where the M3's torque shows up (3900 RPM) vs where the Camaro's torque arrives (5200). The nearly 300 ftlbs arrives 1300 RPM sooner than the Camaro and thus the M3 gets out of the hole and up to speed alot quicker, and at speed the HP then kicks in and kicks the M3 down the track fast.

On the current V6 if the 270(ish?) HP were to kick in at 4200 RPM vs its current mark you would see the Camaro be quite a bit quicker.

Its one of of the reasons why people get confused when a "smaller"/ weaker motor can bring a car to speed almost as fast, or even faster, than a larger engine. I'd rather have 410 ftlbs at 4100 vs 430 HP at 6400.
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:43 PM   #15
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7 speed DCT. Torque multiplication + lightning fast shifts.
That too.
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Old 05-07-2011, 02:50 PM   #16
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Its where the M3's torque shows up (3900 RPM) vs where the Camaro's torque arrives (5200). The nearly 300 ftlbs arrives 1300 RPM sooner than the Camaro and thus the M3 gets out of the hole and up to speed alot quicker, and at speed the HP then kicks in and kicks the M3 down the track fast.

On the current V6 if the 270(ish?) HP were to kick in at 4200 RPM vs its current mark you would see the Camaro be quite a bit quicker.

Its one of of the reasons why people get confused when a "smaller"/ weaker motor can bring a car to speed almost as fast, or even faster, than a larger engine. I'd rather have 410 ftlbs at 4100 vs 430 HP at 6400.
Absolutely. That's what I love about my LT1. Factory 285 hp but 325 fl/lbs of torque at a LOW 2,400 rpm. It'll scoot out of the hole.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:07 PM   #17
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Slow forever.


V6 people. Lol.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:14 PM   #18
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My 76 TA was rated maximum torque 310ft/lbs at 1600 rpm. Very slow car indeed. I think what we are saying is it's about the largest and broadest torque curve that wins all other thing being equal.

A 3.6l v6 with a flat 200ft/lb available from 2200 to 5500 would easily outperform the much larger 6.6 liter that peaked Torque at 1600 (310ft/lbs) and reached maximum hp at 3600rpm (all 180 hp).
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:19 PM   #19
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One of the main reason the V6 Mustang is faster than the V6 Camaro is because of the weight difference.

V6 Camaro - 3790 lbs
V6 Mustang - 3508 lbs

That's 282 lb difference. That's worth about .3 in the 1/4 mile. It also equates to about 30hp penalty.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:22 PM   #20
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It's not going to happen. Plus they are going to worse gear ratios, at least in the 2LS (I think its a 2.92 ratio). With all the mods I have on mine I'm just at 13.9-14.0, if they want it to be in the 13's stock a lot more is going to have to happen.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:50 PM   #21
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One of the main reason the V6 Mustang is faster than the V6 Camaro is because of the weight difference.

V6 Camaro - 3790 lbs
V6 Mustang - 3508 lbs

That's 282 lb difference. That's worth about .3 in the 1/4 mile. It also equates to about 30hp penalty.
And the fact that Ford offers a "V6 Performance Pack" for the V6 Mustang which includes 3.31 gears.


Add in the fact that the new Ford V6 responds incredibly well to a CAI and Tune (25+ RWHP) and more performance minded gears makes the V6 Mustang a serious threat. From a very strict performance numbers game (nothing subjective like looks, commonality, color, etc) is the better car in terms of performance and customizations.

Again..I'm talking hard numbers, not opinions.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:53 PM   #22
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And the fact that Ford offers a "V6 Performance Pack" for the V6 Mustang which includes 3.31 gears.


Add in the fact that the new Ford V6 responds incredibly well to a CAI and Tune (25+ RWHP) and more performance minded gears makes the V6 Mustang a serious threat. From a very strict performance numbers game (nothing subjective like looks, commonality, color, etc) is the better car in terms of performance and customizations.

Again..I'm talking hard numbers, not opinions.
now only if it didn't say "Ford" or "Mustang", i probably would have gotten it.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:54 PM   #23
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One of the main reason the V6 Mustang is faster than the V6 Camaro is because of the weight difference.

V6 Camaro - 3790 lbs
V6 Mustang - 3508 lbs

That's 282 lb difference. That's worth about .3 in the 1/4 mile. It also equates to about 30hp penalty.
You mean one of many other reasons......

Ford built a better V6 car
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:59 PM   #24
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With a manual maybe.
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Old 05-07-2011, 04:02 PM   #25
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With a manual maybe.
Maybe not. With better gearing you'd see the advantage shift more than likely to the auto.
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