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Old 05-05-2011, 09:02 AM   #1
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Stealth Helicopter?

Top Secret Stealth Helicopter Program Revealed in Osama Bin Laden Raid: Experts
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Before an elite team of U.S. Navy SEALs executed a daring raid that took down Osama bin Laden, the commandos were able to silently sneak up on their elusive target thanks to what aviation analysts said were top secret, never-before-seen stealth-modified helicopters.

In the course of the operation that cost the al Qaeda leader his life, one of the two Blackhawk helicopters that carried the SEALs into bin Laden's Pakistani compound grazed one of the compound's wall and was forced to make a hard landing. With the chopper inoperable, at the end of the mission the SEALs destroyed it with explosives.

But photos of what survived the explosion -- the tail section of the craft with curious modifications -- has sent military analysts buzzing about a stealth helicopter program that was only rumored to exist. From a modified tail boom to a noise reducing covering on the rear rotors and a special high-tech material similar to that used in stealth fighters, former Department of Defense official and vice president of the Lexington Institute Dan Goure said the bird is like nothing he's ever seen before.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:02 AM   #2
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True or not, it's a fairly interesting concept.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:14 AM   #3
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interesting. wouldnt be the first time we've had "new" technology "revealed"
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:18 AM   #4
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MAkes sense they have been doing this to warships for years and of course the stealth bomber. It makes them impervious to radar.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:16 AM   #5
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MAkes sense they have been doing this to warships for years and of course the stealth bomber. It makes them impervious to radar.
There's one thing that would make a "stealth helicopter" stick out on radar that they can't fix: Rotor blades turning at hundreds of RPM. Those blades turning really stand out on radar.

Also, I'm not sure how much noise mitigation they've come up with over the years but from personal experience, a person can hear a helicopter coming from pretty far out depending on wind direction/velocity, altitude of the aircraft, etc.

Still, it's a cool concept... I just don't think that the physics of how a helicopter flies supports it.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:49 AM   #6
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This really sucks, because the parts that are left are in the hands of Pakistan, and could be sent to the Chinese. If our leaders had any brains they'd demand the parts back or the Pakistani's get no more aid.
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:06 AM   #7
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>>If our leaders had any brains........

LOL!

If that were true, there's a whole lot of problems we wouldn't have!
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:09 AM   #8
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yep
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:17 AM   #9
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Anyone who watches KOTH have known about them for years.


"In episode 4 in the first series of the American television series King of the Hill, Dale Gribble claims a noise to be that of "one of those stealth helicopters with computerised noise- cancellation capability... they're still workin' the 'chings' out." When Bill Dauterive asks him how he knows about stealth helicopters, Dale replies: "alt.conspiracy.black.helicopters"."
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:19 AM   #10
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There's one thing that would make a "stealth helicopter" stick out on radar that they can't fix: Rotor blades turning at hundreds of RPM. Those blades turning really stand out on radar.

Also, I'm not sure how much noise mitigation they've come up with over the years but from personal experience, a person can hear a helicopter coming from pretty far out depending on wind direction/velocity, altitude of the aircraft, etc.

Still, it's a cool concept... I just don't think that the physics of how a helicopter flies supports it.
That's exactly what they are talking about. It's not just the material it's made with. It's the functionality. Take in mind, the story said, the helicopter "grazed" the compound and it took them getting that close to be detected. (If indeed it was shot down by enemy forces).

Quote:
The stricken aircraft, which commandos blew up at the scene, appears to be a long-rumored stealth helicopter, NBC News reported; a Black Hawk modified to reduce rotor noise and make it more difficult to detect by radar.

Pentagon officials have declined to comment.

Aviation Week reported that the chopper's tail appears to be highly modified compared to a standard H-60 Black Hawk. The report noted that stealth features on a helicopter usually aim to dampen rotor noise and reduce infrared signals.

Noise reduction can be accomplished by adding blades to the rotors and changing the way the pilot flies the chopper, such as flying in a manner to reduce the rotor's rpm, the report said.

As for reducing the likelihood of the aircraft chopper giving off infrared signals, Aviation Week pointed to an earlier helicopter prototype that had a complex exhaust system and fresh air ejectors to lessen the aircraft's heat signals
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42912904...h_of_bin_laden
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:15 PM   #11
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This really sucks, because the parts that are left are in the hands of Pakistan, and could be sent to the Chinese. If our leaders had any brains they'd demand the parts back or the Pakistani's get no more aid.
I think the Chinese are still trying to reverse engineer our stealth plane that got shot down 20 years ago.
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:06 PM   #12
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I'm still interested in the role of the RQ-170
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:11 PM   #13
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There's one thing that would make a "stealth helicopter" stick out on radar that they can't fix: Rotor blades turning at hundreds of RPM. Those blades turning really stand out on radar.

Also, I'm not sure how much noise mitigation they've come up with over the years but from personal experience, a person can hear a helicopter coming from pretty far out depending on wind direction/velocity, altitude of the aircraft, etc.

Still, it's a cool concept... I just don't think that the physics of how a helicopter flies supports it.
Coming from a former Navy Helo crewman who was able to work with Navy SEALs on Combat SAR training...

You'd be surprised what we can do do minimize the sound signature on approach...

Now in a hover that's a differnt story... you are obviously most vulnerable and noisy when in a hover.
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:19 PM   #14
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The stricken aircraft, which commandos blew up at the scene, appears to be a long-rumored stealth helicopter, NBC News reported; a Black Hawk modified to reduce rotor noise and make it more difficult to detect by radar.

Pentagon officials have declined to comment.

Aviation Week reported that the chopper's tail appears to be highly modified compared to a standard H-60 Black Hawk. The report noted that stealth features on a helicopter usually aim to dampen rotor noise and reduce infrared signals.

Noise reduction can be accomplished by adding blades to the rotors and changing the way the pilot flies the chopper, such as flying in a manner to reduce the rotor's rpm, the report said.

As for reducing the likelihood of the aircraft chopper giving off infrared signals, Aviation Week pointed to an earlier helicopter prototype that had a complex exhaust system and fresh air ejectors to lessen the aircraft's heat signals
What some may not realize is the H-60 has a constant rotor speed. it doesn't spin faster to accelerate or slower to decelerate. Now under heavy load the rotors do slow down but due to the load not due to any direct input from the pilot. The invers is also true, under light load the rotor will spin a little faster but that's still a function of decreased load to the rotor head.

So, it's all based on the angle of attack of the blades and the rotor head which on an H-60 is a fully articulated rotor head...

the rotor head can pivot in all directions and the blades twist on their longitudinal axis...

this combined with the angle of the helo results in accelleration or deceleration,

The angle of the blades will result in Climb or decent.

but the pilots are trained to know what angles are quieter than others to help with the element of surprise....

edit: Note in the two pics below the rotor RPMs are nearly identical.

this image is a helo accellerating forward and climbing... This pic gets my blood pumping..



This one is of decelerating and decending into a hover.

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Old 05-05-2011, 01:35 PM   #15
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Looks a little like Airwolf. Remember that show?
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:02 PM   #16
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I was wondering if that was you following me the other day...
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:05 PM   #17
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I was wondering if that was you following me the other day...


Damn! what gave us away...
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:26 PM   #18
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Wait. Didn't that Pakinstani guy twitter about all the noise the choppers made the whole time they were there?
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:46 PM   #19
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Damn! what gave us away...
normally, they fly farther up as to not draw attention. but since you were right behind me, I figured it was you trying to mess with me. next time, just drop in the bed and save on fuel
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:46 PM   #20
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There's one thing that would make a "stealth helicopter" stick out on radar that they can't fix: Rotor blades turning at hundreds of RPM. Those blades turning really stand out on radar.

Also, I'm not sure how much noise mitigation they've come up with over the years but from personal experience, a person can hear a helicopter coming from pretty far out depending on wind direction/velocity, altitude of the aircraft, etc.

Still, it's a cool concept... I just don't think that the physics of how a helicopter flies supports it.
Ever hear of the RAH-66 Comanche? It was supposed to be the first "stealth" helicopter, but the program got cancelled years ago. If the images above are close to true, then it's technology derived from the Comanche. I actually saw one on a test flight and I can tell you that I have never heard anything that sounded like it.

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This really sucks, because the parts that are left are in the hands of Pakistan, and could be sent to the Chinese. If our leaders had any brains they'd demand the parts back or the Pakistani's get no more aid.
Looking at the pictures, the only thing that could be gathered from what's left is the special paint composition (if it is a special paint like the F-117 and B2) and materials, assuming that it isn't regular aircraft grade aluminum skin.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:22 PM   #21
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The probability that the SEALS didn't destroy something critical or important is extremely slim in my mind. While it is definitely possible that they may have left something important, it was likely something that is more complicated than it appears.

Take the gurney flap for instance on spoilers. Nobody understood what it was for a long time and so even though they duplicated it, they didn't know what it was doing and as such didn't understand the benefit of having it, and sometimes made changes to it which negatively impacted the intent of the element.

From an engineering standpoint, even if you have a fully functioning copy of a competitor's product, it doesn't guarantee that you'll understand even the basic physical design and what does or doesn't make it work. That's why I would be more worried about keeping track of the engineers and scientists who do know how it works more so than about the bits and pieces they left behind in Pakistan.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:30 PM   #22
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Id say the communication equipment would be a big info target if survived, stuff they use has to be 10x what we could wish for. If your talking black ops unknown aircraft. Its gonna be well beyond standard issue.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:21 PM   #23
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I wondered why a perfectly good helicopter would just "stall" then "hit a wall"

If it was some sort of prototype, I can see that. Prototypes are always buggy as crap! Good thing they blew most everything up!
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:30 PM   #24
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something to note.

taking small arms fire... so obviously we're speculating.... but..

helicopters are under enormous stresses when transitioning from forward flight to hover... you are basically beating the air into submission to keep the aircraft from smacking the ground which is what it is trying to do. couple that with the fact that it was Hot, heavy, and out of ground effect.. a simpey hydraulic line failure or an engine failure, would cause it to land hard... in this scenario the aircraft was probably not in a single engine state, so if an engine flamed out while transitioning into his hover he'd have to plant it... now way he could lift out under single engine power...

Now, could small arms fire have contributed to the cause of the mechanical failure...

I guess we'll never know...
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:00 PM   #25
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something to note.

taking small arms fire... so obviously we're speculating.... but..
Thats the issue now kinda, as it seem to be the same old situation.

The original story has now changed. News org's are saying there was no firefight, they got the drop on them and no one had a gun now.
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