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Old 05-26-2011, 06:15 PM   #76
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Number 3, it sounds like if we want Boss 302 performance at or near Boss 302 price that we will need to get a Boss 302. Just wondering why Ford seems to be so much nimbler and able to engineer performance...Don't take it personally, I am a GMI graduate (1984) but seems like GM can't compete well in the niches...I wish I could be on the Camaro Team to help overcome this...
Number 3 GM's been called out again! Ouch!
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:21 PM   #77
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Number 3 GM's been called out again! Ouch!
You are Damn right!
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:23 PM   #78
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You are Damn right!

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Old 05-26-2011, 06:36 PM   #79
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You are Damn right!
Just talkin' 'bout Shaft...

Sorry it took me there.
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:38 PM   #80
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Just talkin' 'bout Shaft...

Sorry it took me there.
What does that mean?
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:33 PM   #81
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Number 3, it sounds like if we want Boss 302 performance at or near Boss 302 price that we will need to get a Boss 302. Just wondering why Ford seems to be so much nimbler and able to engineer performance...Don't take it personally, I am a GMI graduate (1984) but seems like GM can't compete well in the niches...I wish I could be on the Camaro Team to help overcome this...
Not taking it personally. Basically Ford was doing work with money they borrowed back in 2006 when there was credit. GM just came out of bankruptcy. All you are seeing is some money Ford had and GM didn't. Capabilty is a different issue.

One might ask why Ford isn't "nimble" enough to have a Corvette or Z06 competitor. They don't. Does that change your opininon even if just a little bit?

The ZL1 will be out soon enough. Will that change your mind?
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:34 PM   #82
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The theme song from the movie "Shaft", written and performed by Isaac Hayes. He wS the voice of Chef on South Park.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:39 PM   #83
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Not taking it personally. Basically Ford was doing work with money they borrowed back in 2006 when there was credit. GM just came out of bankruptcy. All you are seeing is some money Ford had and GM didn't. Capabilty is a different issue.

One might ask why Ford isn't "nimble" enough to have a Corvette or Z06 competitor. They don't. Does that change your opininon even if just a little bit?

The ZL1 will be out soon enough. Will that change your mind?
I heard rumors that the GT was coming back for it's anniversary. Would GM look at the GT as a Corvette competitor now that the ZR1 is out?
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:54 PM   #84
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I heard rumors that the GT was coming back for it's anniversary. Would GM look at the GT as a Corvette competitor now that the ZR1 is out?
Agreed! But now that GM is making money, can we expect the SAME LEVEL OF Product development and refinement as the competitore, aka Ford, tit for tat? Especially as I believe the cost structure for GM is lower than
Ford as we speak based on contracts...
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:05 PM   #85
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I think GM refines their cars superior to Ford, but I must confess that they do seem to follow Ford's lead especially in anything that is not mainstream.
I don't say this as a complaint, but more as a motivator.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:46 PM   #86
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I must confess that they do seem to follow Ford's lead especially in anything that is not mainstream.



IMO I dont think GM follows Fords lead.... I think they just have different line ups. We all know Ford does not have a Vette fighter. How about a answer to the CTS-V??? On the other hand Ford has some models that we don't have a competitor for.... Raptor and the Boss. I honestly think neither of them follows the other. Its just a matter of what they think is profitable and they go from there.
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:22 PM   #87
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IMO I dont think GM follows Fords lead.... I think they just have different line ups. We all know Ford does not have a Vette fighter. How about a answer to the CTS-V??? On the other hand Ford has some models that we don't have a competitor for.... Raptor and the Boss. I honestly think neither of them follows the other. Its just a matter of what they think is profitable and they go from there.
Hopefully you won't see copying and following. It's part of the reason I am not so concerned about the low volume Boss or Raptor. Outstanding products from Ford. But there isn't a lot of money to be made in carving up very small pieces of pie.

But keep in mind, GM ran Ford out of the Full Size SUV business. Can you buy an Excursion? Nope, Suburban is the only game in town, unless you also consider the Yukon XL or the Escalade ESV. And can you get a Hybrid in a Ford FST or SUV? Negatory on that too.

As mentioned, Ford (Lincoln) really has no answer to Cadillac. And sadly that will only become more clear in the future. Unless you consider a Lincoln styled Explorer to be something truly special.

GM beat Ford to the punch on Ecoboost by developing the SIDI Turbo in the Sky and Solstice years before they came out with theirs in the V6. But I guess you can tip the hat to Ford for marketing it in such a way that they looked like the inovators and not GM as was the case.

GM is kicking Ford in the biscuits in China right now. And Ford has no answer.

Ford has some outstanding products, don't get me wrong. But it is a competition and if we both had the same view of the world, we would have the same products and services. And frankly that would be boring for the customer.
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:45 PM   #88
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But it is a competition and if we both had the same view of the world, we would have the same products and services. And frankly that would be boring for the customer.
I agree 100%
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:47 PM   #89
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Anyone looking to lighten their Camaro should take a look at Doc's build thread. It has some good info and he is starting to plug in weight savings numbers.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45165
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:28 PM   #90
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Anyone looking to lighten their Camaro should take a look at Doc's build thread. It has some good info and he is starting to plug in weight savings numbers.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45165
Cool read thanks!
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