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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 05-12-2011, 11:22 AM   #1
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Z28 and the 5th Gen Refresh.

It occurred to me today that the 5th Gen Z28 should be released with the 5th Gen refresh and the perfect time to refresh the 5th Gen would be model year 2013. Since the Camaro's model year is typically from July to July, I believe that the Z28 should be a mid-model year release like the ZL1 is going to be... and here is why:

First off, the ZL1 will be released in February 2012 and I'm pretty sure those models will be snatched up fairly quick. If the 5th Gen were to be refreshed the year after, it would make the 2012 ZL1 very, very exclusive and lets face it, those who buy a ZL1 want to be exclusive.

Next, The Z28 should mirror the release of the ZL1 around the February time frame. In fact, all of the Camaro's performance models like the ZL1 and Z28 should be released in the 1st quarter of every year. This ensures that the performance models reach customers hands before the racing season starts in April/May. Also, by the time February 2013 rolls around, the Camaro's sales will be slumping further than they ever have. Sales will naturally start to fall regardless of the looks, performance and sometimes even the MSRP cannot be low enough. The 2013 Camaro would receive its refresh in July 2012 and by that time, the convertible sales will have leveled out to regular convertible sales, the ZL1's sales will have peaked in the spring and will be long gone and the base LT/SS's will need a bump. The July 2012 refresh will be just in time and open the door to the upcoming 2013 Z28 and give GM the opportunity to make the refresh more race/competition focused and take a more modern approach to the 5th Gen Camaro. Along with the natural decline in interest and sales of the 5th Gen, Ford will begin to circulate spy photo's and information about the 50th Anniversary "Mustang III" that should begin production in the first quarter of 2014.

GM will need to make noticeable improvements to the 5th Gen in order to stay competitive and attract some of the media's attention. There are drivetrain improvements that could be done and if that is the approach GM is considering, expect to see some pretty unique range of engine options and horsepower ratings. GM has a plethora of engine options and I would imagine that some of those more limited options may see the light of day just to remain competitive with the obviously older chassis and styling (the roles will be reversed). Performance is one thing and something that will get pretty interesting on the GM side during that time but the styling is where GM will pull in more of those stray consumers. The Camaro's competition will move to the more modern styling and therefore, so will the Camaro. I'm not saying that the 5th Gen will completely change overnight but I can see them taking a few pages from the 3rd and 4th Gen... In which both of those generations have a HUGE fanbase. I have noticed in Grand Am that the Rolex Sports Car Series GT Camaro's have slightly altered the headlights for aerodynamics. I see a modern 3rd and 4th Gen Camaro trying to get out and a possible 2013 Z28 rendition. It is modern, it looks aggressive and race ready, it keeps everything the people loved about the 5th Gen and improves on the current design.



It's simplistic and with a little work to the lower fascia, I'm sure GM could get the top and bottom to work together. I can practically see the 2013 refreshed Camaro and a Z28 right here. It reminds me so much of the 3rd Gen and changing it up a little would secure the 2010-2012 Camaro exclusiveness and build the current design more into a race ready vehicle. The picture above is just something the Camaro GT.R teams threw together to improve aerodynamics and protect the headlights from debris, but I think GM could really turn this simple headlight design into something better and more modern to keep the sales up. This simple design also makes the current Camaro look more classic and somewhat dated compared to what the GT.R is now. This Camaro looks like its ready to work and with the slight adjustment to the fascia, makes the Camaro look drastically different and in my opinion better. What better to introduce the 2013 Camaro Z28 design than to actually use the Grand Am GT.R front fascia. Born and Bred race car...

EDIT: 2013 CAMARO Z28, I made adjustments to a render of the 2006 Chevrolet Camaro concept by X-Raited Creations. This original concept was not my creation.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:22 PM   #2
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Some more angles on my proposed 2013 Z28 5th Gen Camaro refresh. This is just a simple headlight cover but it really changes the Camaro's looks. Imagine if the lower fascia was changed to complement the new headlights, work the grille maybe flush with the headlights for more aerodynamics. Use the Bumblebee/ZL1 brake ducts/driver lamp cluster standard. Need some feedback here... or some help...

I like the black Camaro here, Black always wins.




Nice profile shot here, looks really clean. The bumper cover was altered to accommodate the new headlight shields.




This looks really aggressive, very race car inspired look. Just the simple change in headlight design and the car looks significantly different.


The yellow tint is from rubber debris and grime from racing, the headlight cluster is used on this Camaro. Something worth looking at.
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:17 PM   #3
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I hear ya, its functional, but only 1 issue "it's ugly".
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Old 05-12-2011, 06:38 PM   #4
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I hear ya, its functional, but only 1 issue "it's ugly".
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:33 AM   #5
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What refresh?
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:47 AM   #6
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I really like this


[/
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#3 - 1981 Z/28 Bright Blue Metallic / Black - sold
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:08 AM   #7
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What refresh?
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I hear ya, its functional, but only 1 issue "it's ugly".
If GM intends for the 5th Gen to continue to sell in large volumes, there will most likely have to be a model refresh somewhere around the middle of the 5th Gens life. The goal is obviously to outsell the Mustang and with the Mustang III coming up, the 5th Gen will be a tired body style by then. It was after the S197's third year that sales began to slow down and that was mainly from an economic event. In order to remain competitive, GM will get creative with drivetrains accompanied by a mid generation refresh to keep heads turning. The only issue will be the dedicated few that have been heavily influenced by the current styling and will have a difficult time accepting any changes to the Camaro. GM should not forget that 1% of enthusiast but GM should not be held hostage by them either. We are concerned what the other 99% of potential buyers think... and I think GM needs to explore the modern approach.

I have occasionally tampered with the current 5th Gen Camaro to try and refresh the front fascia and I will tell you, it is a very difficult task. I am a fairly decent photoshop artist but trying to redesign the Camaro without destroying the original lines that GM laid down while improving the exterior is horrible. The one problem I repeatedly encountered was remodeling the headlights. As long as the headlights remained unchanged, the Camaro would keep the same original 5th Gen look. I know that most will say that there is nothing wrong with the current Camaro and, that may be true. But realize that those who agree with you are the 1% of consumers who bought the Camaro, and 99% of future buyers will not want a 2010 Camaro in 2013. In my educated opinion, (and I say educated because I have spent the last 21-22 years involved with Camaro enthusiast in one way or another) Camaro enthusiast are some of the most difficult car enthusiast to please. Every time a new generation Camaro comes out, it creates a new generation of brand elitist that eventually despises every other car made, including other Camaro's. What we need is to work on the car to formulate a Camaro that doesn't just speak to that 1%, but caters to the other 99% while improving on the areas only us... scratch that... only you, the 1% of enthusiast can identify with. That 99% of consumers are going to mainly pay attention to the exterior design because sadly, that's all they know about cars...

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Old 05-13-2011, 08:42 AM   #8
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Jinx has done some awesome photoshops in the past, here is the link to his Z28. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=z28
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:14 AM   #9
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Jinx has done some awesome photoshops in the past, here is the link to his Z28. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=z28
I love the lower fascia, the small side ducts w/drivers light and the lower grille with the extra duct intakes incorporated into the lower grille. Then again, it still look like the same ol' 5th Gen in the front. The headlight and upper grille design is powerful as it pretty much defines the entire vehicles looks. If the headlights and grille are changed slightly, it alters the entire look of the car. I still like the fictional headlight cover that the GT.R uses...
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:22 AM   #10
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Those headlight cover-thingies are gross. Keep 'em on the race cars where they belong, thank you.

And I say let the professionals determine when and how to make changes to keep the car fresh...rather than jumping the gun.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:23 AM   #11
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The picture below looks like a more race oriented ZL1, although the bumper cover itself is far to slender, the design is pretty cool. Put the Jay Leno hood on this Camaro and it would have my vote.



I can see a 2013 Z28 here but I'm having trouble getting away from the current design...


Here are some interesting lower fascia work. I love the first picture below, it is simple and very functional. It is similar to the 2012 Boss 302's lower valance that shovels cool air into the radiator and has the capability to mount a brake duct kit on each side. The second pic is really just a one piece splitter but the raised fascia section around the fog light is unique. The third pic is an advanced bumper cover and front fascia with primary brake duct ports in the fascia and secondary duct ports in the lower valance. The whole design is more rounded and really creates a more sleek look to the 5th Gen. The splitter is a two piece design and is part of the fascia and is not just a bolt on. This is a very modern look and while it may look a little busy, I would like to graph the GT.R's headlight covers onto this rendition and see what we get. Also, you see the hips on the third pic look more like a fin and express much sharper lines in the rear (Corvette style). Someone mentioned earlier that GM needs to do rework the body panels to make the Camaro appear to be smaller than it actually is. This would mean tucking in some of HUGE rear end and front fascia. I was in one of these Camaro's yesterday (for research) and upon approaching the vehicle, it always astonishes me how physically big this car is. It makes my Mustang look tiny...
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:38 AM   #12
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Those headlight cover-thingies are gross. Keep 'em on the race cars where they belong, thank you.

And I say let the professionals determine when and how to make changes to keep the car fresh...rather than jumping the gun.
You are within that 1% of dedicated Camaro enthusiast that have been heavily influenced by the current 5th Gen Camaro. At this point, any gradual changes will receive heavy fire from the 1% but will be widely accepted and loved by the 99% that just love new automobiles. Like I said, this will be the most difficult task GM and Team Camaro have ever had to carry out. There was an overwhelming portion of that 1% that found the ZL1's design to be flawed so I would hope that you would agree with me on this. I have a bone to pick with the ZL1's design because I know where they got it from and most people do not know that the fascia was borrowed. I want the Z28 to be original not like the ZL1's design was. I would like that the 5th Gen refresh was distinct enough to separate the 5th Gen from the 5.1 Gen but not drastic enough to lose their base but, I have a feeling thet there will be quite a few 1%ers that do not like version 5.1. Just be prepared to be supportive and display some acceptance when we start seeing the refresh...

I really want to see the front end rounded off a little bit like the last pic I posted. The rear end needs to calm down a little, round down some of those extreme accents and, as you said, tuck some of that mass in a little...
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:06 PM   #13
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If GM intends for the 5th Gen to continue to sell in large volumes, there will most likely have to be a model refresh somewhere around the middle of the 5th Gens life. The goal is obviously to outsell the Mustang and with the Mustang III coming up, the 5th Gen will be a tired body style by then. It was after the S197's third year that sales began to slow down and that was mainly from an economic event. In order to remain competitive, GM will get creative with drivetrains accompanied by a mid generation refresh to keep heads turning. The only issue will be the dedicated few that have been heavily influenced by the current styling and will have a difficult time accepting any changes to the Camaro. GM should not forget that 1% of enthusiast but GM should not be held hostage by them either. We are concerned what the other 99% of potential buyers think... and I think GM needs to explore the modern approach.
The modern approach is to not do a refresh. That is the old, cheap way of doing things. When you want to milk a platform for all its worth and merely keep a product competitive, but not excellent. You only need to do refreshes when you have an extended product life. Keep the life short, and you no longer need to do a half-assed attempt at making an old car look new. Plus, making small additions to the lineup on a continual basis keeps it fresh. Such as a convertible ~2 years in, then a super high performance version ~3 years in, followed by new engines and so on. Then after a 5 or 6 year run, move to the next generation and skip the refresh altogether. The next gen Mustang is expected what, 2014ish? 6th gen Camaro is expected 2015ish.
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:25 PM   #14
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The modern approach is to not do a refresh. That is the old, cheap way of doing things. When you want to milk a platform for all its worth and merely keep a product competitive, but not excellent. You only need to do refreshes when you have an extended product life. Keep the life short, and you no longer need to do a half-assed attempt at making an old car look new. Plus, making small additions to the lineup on a continual basis keeps it fresh. Such as a convertible ~2 years in, then a super high performance version ~3 years in, followed by new engines and so on. Then after a 5 or 6 year run, move to the next generation and skip the refresh altogether. The next gen Mustang is expected what, 2014ish? 6th gen Camaro is expected 2015ish.
I think Fbod said that 2015 redesign wasn't going to happen so I think a 50th Anniversary redesign would be fitting. I don't know if the Camaro has enough appeal to go unchanged all the way to 2017, I don't even think it would sustain sales up until 2015 without some new body work. The Z28 will no doubt help pull some attention but I believe it will be another limited edition. If the 5th Gen Camaro last 7 years that would see the maximum profits being made from this generation. If GM were to change it too soon, say 2015, then the 5th Gen may not cover the cost of R&D and IP and they would be in the hole again throughout the 6th Gens life too. 7 Years gives GM the time to pull out all the tricks like a Z28, 6 month interval special editions, a mid-gen refresh and some unique drivetrain additions like an LS9, LS7 and SSX LS3. The Mustang III will be seen camo'd around the spring/summer of 2012, details won't go public until Ford gets rid of the majority of 2013's (for sales and hold outs). That would be a perfect time for GM to shake things up with a refresh, a new Z28 and another, improved ZL1. There will need to be drastic measures taken by Team Camaro when the Mustang III starts hitting the rumor mill. I think that the Camaro should do its own thing (like the Challenger does now) after the 2014 Mustang comes out, If they chase Ford it could force them into a premature redesign and if sales are still good, there is no need to do that. Nobody is going to cross shop a 3400lbs, 440hp car to a 4000lbs, 430hp car...
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:07 PM   #15
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I think Fbod said that 2015 redesign wasn't going to happen so I think a 50th Anniversary redesign would be fitting. I don't know if the Camaro has enough appeal to go unchanged all the way to 2017, I don't even think it would sustain sales up until 2015 without some new body work. The Z28 will no doubt help pull some attention but I believe it will be another limited edition. If the 5th Gen Camaro last 7 years that would see the maximum profits being made from this generation. If GM were to change it too soon, say 2015, then the 5th Gen may not cover the cost of R&D and IP and they would be in the hole again throughout the 6th Gens life too. 7 Years gives GM the time to pull out all the tricks like a Z28, 6 month interval special editions, a mid-gen refresh and some unique drivetrain additions like an LS9, LS7 and SSX LS3. The Mustang III will be seen camo'd around the spring/summer of 2012, details won't go public until Ford gets rid of the majority of 2013's (for sales and hold outs). That would be a perfect time for GM to shake things up with a refresh, a new Z28 and another, improved ZL1. There will need to be drastic measures taken by Team Camaro when the Mustang III starts hitting the rumor mill. I think that the Camaro should do its own thing (like the Challenger does now) after the 2014 Mustang comes out, If they chase Ford it could force them into a premature redesign and if sales are still good, there is no need to do that. Nobody is going to cross shop a 3400lbs, 440hp car to a 4000lbs, 430hp car...
He never said there won't be an all new Camaro in 2015. That may be how you interpreted it, but that is not what he said. In typical fashion, he said very little. And what he did actually say may not be what you think he was saying. By dismissing the 2015 Alpha rumour, you seem to think that means the next gen has been put to some way off time in the future. But it could also mean that it has been pulled ahead. Or that the platform won't be called Alpha. Or it has been pushed back a year. Or he could just be amused with the fact that so many people outside GM know it to be fact, when GM isn't positive on all the details themselves. Go back to that thread, and you'll see that he also dismissed someone who was saying that there will be a simple refresh (well, he called it a redesign but I'm sure he meant a mid-cycle refresh not a ground up redesign) and that the next gen wouldn't be until much later.
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:09 PM   #16
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He never said there won't be an all new Camaro in 2015. That may be how you interpreted it, but that is not what he said. In typical fashion, he said very little. And what he did actually say may not be what you think he was saying. By dismissing the 2015 Alpha rumour, you seem to think that means the next gen has been put to some way off time in the future. But it could also mean that it has been pulled ahead. Or that the platform won't be called Alpha. Or it has been pushed back a year. Or he could just be amused with the fact that so many people outside GM know it to be fact, when GM isn't positive on all the details themselves. Go back to that thread, and you'll see that he also dismissed someone who was saying that there will be a simple refresh (well, he called it a redesign but I'm sure he meant a mid-cycle refresh not a ground up redesign) and that the next gen wouldn't be until much later.
I'll go back and read it, I just remember Fbod LHAO at the guy suggested that the Alpha would be out in 2015. Now you have me second guessing the 5th Gen can sustain sales after the Mustang III comes out. They can just reduce production like the Challanger does and focus on profits per unit. There is nothing wrong with selling 3000-4000 Camaros out of the 4000 that are produced each month. I still think that a Z28 would do some damage in the media when the 50th Mustang comes to market. It will be difficult to go sales for sales with the new Mustang, especially since the Mustang will be taking over for the Falcon in Australia, and that is a 50,000-70,000 units extra a year.

GM has pulled the Camaro from the pony car market before, no shame in doing so while they benchmark the new Mustang. Grand Am is reaching huge spectator counts each month. I think the Z28 will do pretty well there, not saying that they will bump the Mustang and BMW, but they will definitely draw some attention. If I read the rules correctly, the Camaro could be DQ'd unless they meet the minimum production car sales requirement and that would let those Camaro teams seek employment elsewhere. Some straight up, factory support would really help...
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:30 PM   #17
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You are within that 1% of dedicated Camaro enthusiast that have been heavily influenced by the current 5th Gen Camaro.
At this point, any gradual changes will receive heavy fire from the 1% but will be widely accepted and loved by the 99% that just love new automobiles.
I didn't know you've quantified this.... Thank you for telling me what I think.

Like I said, this will be the most difficult task GM and Team Camaro have ever had to carry out. There was an overwhelming portion of that 1% that found the ZL1's design to be flawed so I would hope that you would agree with me on this.
Again...glad you've quantified this...I try, generally, not to pull statistics out of my behind, it just doesn't look good. Worth thinking about...

I have a bone to pick with the ZL1's design because I know where they got it from and most people do not know that the fascia was borrowed. I want the Z28 to be original not like the ZL1's design was. Oh, do tell.......

I would like that the 5th Gen refresh was distinct enough to separate the 5th Gen from the 5.1 Gen but not drastic enough to lose their base but, I have a feeling thet there will be quite a few 1%ers that do not like version 5.1. Just be prepared to be supportive and display some acceptance when we start seeing the refresh...There's that "1% again"...I ought to change my signature, maybe....
Let me remind you that the reason the Camaro looks the way it does is because the Camaro people within GM were overwhelmingly touched by the rendering that Sangyup Lee produced....they turned it into something real that you can touch and spin on a stage.

When enthusiasts saw this car, it was the essence of Camaro...a 40-year old story told in 2006. They (we) demanded the production model be built, and not deviate. The engineers overcame enormous compromises to make a car that looks like this still perform the way we expect, and for that they should be applauded - but the bottom line is that the design has sold this car.

When regular people see this car, they do 180s...approach the owners, etc, etc...370zs, Altima coupes, Audi TTs and S#'s BMWs, and yes even Mustangs tend to blend in with the rest. The design of Camaro is SO good, it's even made its way into other Chevrolet's in the form of family design cues.

So if I appear apprehensive of an "anything goes" approach with regards to the Camaro's design, it's because it's very difficult to alter a design as close to perfection as this and come out the other end successful. But don't mistake me for a part of this imaginary 1% you keep referring to. I don't expect the Camaro to stay frozen in time, nor do I want it to. I simply don't pretend to know what it should look like...it's a task far above my head. If there's a design group that can do it, though, they're in the Renaissance Center.

In my very humble opinion, generally I'd like to see them nip/tuck the car in the same fashion that Camaro's and Corvettes (also think Aston Martins and Porches) have been redesigned for decades...evolutionary. And I'm sure they'll stay true to the simple elegance that defines the Chevrolet family design.

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I think Fbod said that 2015 redesign wasn't going to happen so I think a 50th Anniversary redesign would be fitting. I don't know if the Camaro has enough appeal to go unchanged all the way to 2017, I don't even think it would sustain sales up until 2015 without some new body work. The Z28 will no doubt help pull some attention but I believe it will be another limited edition. If the 5th Gen Camaro last 7 years that would see the maximum profits being made from this generation. If GM were to change it too soon, say 2015, then the 5th Gen may not cover the cost of R&D and IP and they would be in the hole again throughout the 6th Gens life too. 7 Years gives GM the time to pull out all the tricks like a Z28, 6 month interval special editions, a mid-gen refresh and some unique drivetrain additions like an LS9, LS7 and SSX LS3. The Mustang III will be seen camo'd around the spring/summer of 2012, details won't go public until Ford gets rid of the majority of 2013's (for sales and hold outs). That would be a perfect time for GM to shake things up with a refresh, a new Z28 and another, improved ZL1. There will need to be drastic measures taken by Team Camaro when the Mustang III starts hitting the rumor mill. I think that the Camaro should do its own thing (like the Challenger does now) after the 2014 Mustang comes out, If they chase Ford it could force them into a premature redesign and if sales are still good, there is no need to do that. Nobody is going to cross shop a 3400lbs, 440hp car to a 4000lbs, 430hp car...
You over-think things...and assume MUCH.

Firstly...if Fbodfather ever said anything directly related to a next-gen Camaro...it certainly wouldn't have been anything to interpret as an official statement. That's not to say that he can't - only that he doesn't do that...if I had to guess, somebody made some grandiose comment that warranted a few "......" from the holder of the 2x4.

Secondly...your commentary on profitability has been entertaining...but we don't know nearly enough to make such assertions. Only they know. And only they can make the decisions and choices you present yourself to be privvy to. Maybe they already recouped the R&D on the car. Or maybe they never will. Perhaps the 6th gen will have such a low cost of development thanks to the ATS/CTS that it won't matter, anyways. The bottom line is we don't know...and it's rather silly to use shaky assumptions as a foundation to draw further conclusions.

Finally...let's leave the Mustang chest-thumping out of the ZL1 and Z28 specific forums...(I'd say the site, but that's too much to wish for...). This is, however, the 'holy ground' of the site and I don't want to hear about non-existent mystical super-stangs in here. Whatever Ford chooses to do is their own business, and better suited to the other vehicles or off-topics section....or the versus section if it ever actually comes to pass....
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:45 PM   #18
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Pill, you can rant all you want about the specific specs of the camaro--I have driven both and I will tell you that the Camaro EPITOMIZES a muscle car and the way I like to drive, the mustang is a smaller car for small people and the styling just does not Get it--just my very humble opinion..
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:06 AM   #19
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You over-think things...and assume MUCH.
Nobody ever told me that before, its the war harden mentality that has me spinning ever issue to get a look at it from all sides. It is how I approach all things and will be difficult for me to change...

However, back to the Z28 designs. I stand by my post and believe that one of these cars, along with a mid-gen refresh is in the works. Its always good to save the best for last...
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:16 AM   #20
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Pill, you can rant all you want about the specific specs of the camaro--I have driven both and I will tell you that the Camaro EPITOMIZES a muscle car and the way I like to drive, the mustang is a smaller car for small people and the styling just does not Get it--just my very humble opinion..
I have driven both as well, I spent a whole day with a 2SS a few days ago for a review. I drive my GT almost everyday and I just cannot get over how close they got the 2010+ to the 1967-1969's. I loved the prototype pictures of the 2006 Camaro but when I went to look at one in 2009, it didn't look like the same car. I rented a V6 Camaro again in Hawaii in 2010 and drove it for 8 days out of the 18 I was there and you are correct by saying that the Mustang is a smaller car. I put money down shortly after the 5.0 announcement after I got back from Hawaii on the 2011 GT, I needed a car for competition....

I would like to see the refresh get rid of some of the extra metal on the outside like Dragoneye said. It's also a very hard thing to do but if Ford can do it, I think GM can.

I think that this Camaro really brings the front of the car into modern times, It's simple, functional and looks like a track athlete. It also takes the Camaro into another direction and would definitely make the older 5th Gens more exclusive. I think those headlights bring the 3rd Gen back a little...


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Old 05-14-2011, 06:04 AM   #21
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I have a bone to pick with the ZL1's design because I know where they got it from and most people do not know that the fascia was borrowed. I want the Z28 to be original not like the ZL1's design was. Oh, do tell.......
What really turned me off about the ZL1 was that the lower fascia, the part that was suppose to really set the car aside from the SS, was borrowed from another GM product. The Fascia was taken from the 2008 Vauxhall VXR8 that carries the LS3. Once I seen that, I threw up. I hope the Z28 doesn't try to copy and paste parts from foreign cars, regardless if it is a performance model... people do live in other countries and are willing to bust them on this... Hurry up and look at this, I want to take this down.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:21 AM   #22
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Let me remind you that the reason the Camaro looks the way it does is because the Camaro people within GM were overwhelmingly touched by the rendering that Sangyup Lee produced....they turned it into something real that you can touch and spin on a stage
I agree that Mr. Lee's 2005 sketches were incredible, they were also very similar to Rob Jenson's 2003-2004 sketches of the S197 that were scrapped because they were too big in design. Ford obviously went with he classic drawings which brought about the smaller Mustang and went on to win the Miller Cup in 2005...

Lets compare... Ford eventually went with the black and whites at the bottom. Good history lesson though...
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:29 AM   #23
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You see, the Mustang and Camaro are practically related.. Here some more from Robs 2004 batch, You will see the 50th Anniversary Mustang concept art in here, the black and whites half way down.... and the reason Ford went with the smaller styling, the current body lines of the 2010+ match the body lines of the 1964-1969 Mustang's. You are right about the new Mustang's looking smaller than they actually are (see bottom) That was no doubt very hard to do... I would like to see the 2013 Z28 match up with the 1969 Z28. That red Mustang would make a nice 2013 Z28, just change out the headlights, running pony of course and there ya go GM. The red one makes a nice nip/tucked 5th Gen...
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:56 AM   #24
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My question is, when the 5th Gen is refreshed, will the majority of 5th Gen owners accept it? I would like to think so, some may regret buying the current car. Some are kicking themselves for not waiting until the 2012 just for the options available. I still think that the refresh will meet with some resistance here on Camaro5 but the majority of new car buyers will love the redesign more than the current car. That's what refreshes do, they attract attention to a tired model. The convertible is technically a refresh and it was about 50/50 accepted on here. This gives GM an opportunity to redesign the car to be functional and not just appealing to a limited number of consumers. If GM is starting to make some profit, why not keep the Camaro fresh each year with improvements? Even though the majority of sales are already out the window, limit production a bit (already in the works) and only build to the demand. The Challenger is laughed at every month but I guarantee they sell what they build and profits per are a couple thousand dollars more than the Mustang and Camaro. It's a strange strategy but it works, they are doing less work and running away with more profits due to the higher MSRP. By 2013, this strategy will be in place at Oshawa...
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:02 PM   #25
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Gen 5 only has TWO production years under its belt. It needs no refreshing as of yet. Not really diggin the headlamp covers. Functionality over form every time, but this car deserves to have both.

I response to your most recent query: There will (not hypothetically. I know gen 6 is on the way.) be no buyer's remorse for me. I bought this car loving every inch of it, just as it is. The interior has already been "refreshed" for 2012, and only reinforces how happy I am to have a 2010.
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