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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 06-08-2011, 06:31 AM   #251
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Here you go guys. Do this with the z/28 body.
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Old 06-08-2011, 06:33 AM   #252
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:42 AM   #253
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If a Z/28 is under $50k and 500hp SAE rated @ the crank and can beat a Boss 302 lap time, I'd buy one (provided the dealers don't price gouge...)

LS7 would be a dream come true, but I think the engineers can tweak the LS376/480 enough for a Z/28 to outperform a Boss 302.

I would love to see push button start, fine with manual adjustable seats as long as the seats are comfortable (for an average size American male).
No RS option...

I'll add more as I think of it...
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:06 AM   #254
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Here you go guys. Do this with the z/28 body.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:54 AM   #255
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So, it seems that we're really stuck on the LS7.


Let me throw this out there. Does anyone think that such a Camaro will generate enough lateral g to warrant the LS7s dry sump oil system? The dry sump adds cost and weight you know.
Its not really the dry sump we want, its mostly comes down to that fact that we have no other certified engines at the moment. The LS3 does not rev high enough for what we want and we do not really want a turbo or supercharger, so there goes a possible twin turbo V6 and the LSA and LS9. So since the is really no other engine in use we are left with the LS7, or left crossing our fingers that GM drops the new GenV V8 in the Z28 at the same time as the Vette.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:08 AM   #256
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If they built the LS7 with the LSX block & LSX-DR heads. And put it in the Z/28. I would be a buyer,and I am 61 years old. I have a street rod with the LS7 now. And love it. But the LS7 block/heads are to weak to put NOS on it safely. So give me the LSX stuff, and then I will put a bottle or turbo on it myself. Like I said GM BUILD ONE FINAL BAD ASS Z/28. THAT KICKS ALL THE FORDS AND DODGES ASSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of you want a drag car, get a ZL1.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:15 AM   #257
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Of you want a drag car, get a ZL1.
To heavy!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus my truck is not a full on drag vehicle. I get 20MPG, hit the interstate at 70MPH, and can sit in 3 hour bumper to bumper traffic. I want the LSX block & the LSX-Dr heads. With the LS7 CI.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:44 AM   #258
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To heavy!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus my truck is not a full on drag vehicle. I get 20MPG, hit the interstate at 70MPH, and can sit in 3 hour bumper to bumper traffic. I want the LSX block & the LSX-Dr heads. With the LS7 CI.
Z28 = Track Car
LSX = Nose Heavy

Not the right direction.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:46 AM   #259
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Anyone know what happened to The Pill?
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:48 AM   #260
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Anyone know what happened to The Pill?
I think he crossed the "line".
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:52 AM   #261
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Oh, that makes sense, because he was everywhere for a while, and then nuthin'.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:13 PM   #262
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Anyone know what happened to The Pill?
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I think he crossed the "line".
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Oh, that makes sense, because he was everywhere for a while, and then nuthin'.
His account is suspended, I don't know for how long.

More less told a mod he was just here to stir the pot.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:18 PM   #263
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A few cudos...and clarifications:

1) Number 3 is a valued member of this forum, not only for his "insight" from an OEM perspective but also, for his automotive engineering knowledge. He "tempers" our "boyz who dream" exuberance and passion with an occasional dose of reality...and reels us back to "what actually might be" territory. NEVER a bad thing, NOT a roadblock, NOT a killjoy...and certainly he's NOT of "beancounter cloth", although at some point the "beancounter$" WILL play their roll. A roll Number 3 is unfortunately familiar with... I think this is where the "respect" icon is inserted...

2) Z4E, for those of you not aware, moderates the CAMARO sub-forum at gminsidenews.com He's passionate. He's in contact, obviously, with all and sundry kinds of folks...some of whom even work for GM. As some have rightly mentioned, here, NO ONE on the "inside" DARE "spill the beans", in totality or perhaps even in an off-handed way. Doesn't mean "hints" of things that may come to pass are not/won't be present...and it certainly doesn't mean those within GM aren't above a lil "teasing"... After all, those folks put their pants on, one leg at a time, too.

3) My personal keen interest in seeing a Zee with an LS7 is based on personal experience, both street AND road course, with TT'd LS-series engines AND the LS7. And I'm here to tell ya, bang for the buck, gimme the LS7...ANY DAY... As I mentioned earlier, this sort of "concept" is far from new, or even recent. Goes back months 'n months...and there ARE GM folks chompin' at the bit to see a sensible, profitable version of this car come to market...long before the announcement of the BOSS. The BOSS simply (?!) makes the "discussions" more poignant...

And to mitigate "packaging issues" with regard to drysump, GM through GM PP has already created a wetsump LS7 kit...it was featured a few months ago in Hot Rod Magazine...will therefore crash-test like an LS3 (but you still have to "prove" that)...which means no sump tank hung out the front, or anywhere else. Will a wetsump LS7 live? Pete has the answer to that. I doubt he's popped any LS3s from oil starvation...

And for another co-operative venture NOT approved for production, take a gander at this from Thomson Automotive, a company somewhat familiar to GM Powertrain personnel and GM PP peeps:

http://www.thomsonautomotive.com/?page=ultimate_ls7.cfm

Something to consider, when YOU get YOUR Z/28...

And yes, that was a "tease"...too...kinda...


4) My mention of Akerson's quote regarding "special engines for sport(y) cars", even if NOT "accurate", certainly HINTS at "mass usage of existing components"...which builds a better "business case"...and builds it more quickly, with broader consensus...

5) Number 3's "observation" of "streamined production": TAKE NOTE! This car will not be all things to all people. Hell, I don't want no "*****" Zees in Panther Pink with fuzzy seats and illuminated make-up mirrors.

A few colors...a very few options...batch-built...weight-restricted...aero-correct with ZL1 splitter/spoiler...maybe the Heritage Grille for this obviously "heritage" car, as its primary differentiator, appearance-wise, since a crash-test is necessary anyway...

Now...someone start a THREAD on EVERY CAMARO SITE EXTANT...kinda like that luckless "El Camino" deal a few weeks back...soliciting GENUINE ORDER INTENT...

...and THEN send all results/feedback to someone as far up the foodchain in the RenCen as you can reach...

...and I'll raise MY HAND NOW!

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 06-08-2011 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:59 PM   #264
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The only reason I am so interested in the LSX block. Is that the LS7 block is to weak to support NOS, turbos or superchargers safely. Plus the LS7 heads have a weak link also, the exhaust valves. And the LS7 rods are also a weak link. Dont get me wrong I love my LS7 motor. I would just like the cubes of the LS7 with a stronger block,heads, rods, & exhaust valves.
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:18 PM   #265
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Then buy the ZL1...

Did you read what Thomson could do to your LS7? Spray, aside...
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:37 PM   #266
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Well, for one thing, the LS7 won't be around for much longer. At the end of the day, I really don't see an alternative to a slightly hotter version of the LS3.

We'll see a potentially more powerful DI Gen V in the C7 in about two years, but I'd doubt that GM would spend the money to certify that for the current Camaro, right at the end of it's lifespan.
This is the dilemma I see with the Z. It can't compete with the boss with the current LS3, and upgrading it to the level it needs to be at brings CAFE and emissions problems along with it.

Using the LS7 solves the power problem, but brings money problems. If you were to build a Z/28 with the LS7 and the upgraded drive-train components, plus the brakes. Then add in an upgraded suspension and wheels/tires, you're talking serious money. This car would have and engine that's more expensive than the one that's going the ZL1. Just deleting some comfort and convenience items and the magnetic shocks isn't going to knock 10 grand off the price, so it couldn't compete with the Boss on price with this setup.

It seems the choice is to compete the Boss on price OR performance, but I don't think both are possible.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:21 PM   #267
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His account is suspended, I don't know for how long.

More less told a mod he was just here to stir the pot.
Oh thanks.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:22 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
Well, for one thing, the LS7 won't be around for much longer. At the end of the day, I really don't see an alternative to a slightly hotter version of the LS3.

We'll see a potentially more powerful DI Gen V in the C7 in about two years, but I'd doubt that GM would spend the money to certify that for the current Camaro, right at the end of it's lifespan.
All the more reason to use the LS7 in the 5Gen Z28.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:29 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
A few cudos...and clarifications:

1) Number 3 is a valued member of this forum, not only for his "insight" from an OEM perspective but also, for his automotive engineering knowledge. He "tempers" our "boyz who dream" exuberance and passion with an occasional dose of reality...and reels us back to "what actually might be" territory. NEVER a bad thing, NOT a roadblock, NOT a killjoy...and certainly he's NOT of "beancounter cloth", although at some point the "beancounter$" WILL play their roll. A roll Number 3 is unfortunately familiar with... I think this is where the "respect" icon is inserted... Yes I've never met him, but consider him a friend (2cnd chance)

2) Z4E, for those of you not aware, moderates the CAMARO sub-forum at gminsidenews.com He's passionate. He's in contact, obviously, with all and sundry kinds of folks...some of whom even work for GM. As some have rightly mentioned, here, NO ONE on the "inside" DARE "spill the beans", in totality or perhaps even in an off-handed way. Doesn't mean "hints" of things that may come to pass are not/won't be present...and it certainly doesn't mean those within GM aren't above a lil "teasing"... After all, those folks put their pants on, one leg at a time, too.

3) My personal keen interest in seeing a Zee with an LS7 is based on personal experience, both street AND road course, with TT'd LS-series engines AND the LS7. And I'm here to tell ya, bang for the buck, gimme the LS7...ANY DAY... As I mentioned earlier, this sort of "concept" is far from new, or even recent. Goes back months 'n months...and there ARE GM folks chompin' at the bit to see a sensible, profitable version of this car come to market...long before the announcement of the BOSS. The BOSS simply (?!) makes the "discussions" more poignant...

And to mitigate "packaging issues" with regard to drysump, GM through GM PP has already created a wetsump LS7 kit...it was featured a few months ago in Hot Rod Magazine...will therefore crash-test like an LS3 (but you still have to "prove" that)...which means no sump tank hung out the front, or anywhere else. Will a wetsump LS7 live? Pete has the answer to that. I doubt he's popped any LS3s from oil starvation...

And for another co-operative venture NOT approved for production, take a gander at this from Thomson Automotive, a company somewhat familiar to GM Powertrain personnel and GM PP peeps:

http://www.thomsonautomotive.com/?page=ultimate_ls7.cfm

Something to consider, when YOU get YOUR Z/28...

And yes, that was a "tease"...too...kinda...


4) My mention of Akerson's quote regarding "special engines for sport(y) cars", even if NOT "accurate", certainly HINTS at "mass usage of existing components"...which builds a better "business case"...and builds it more quickly, with broader consensus...

5) Number 3's "observation" of "streamined production": TAKE NOTE! This car will not be all things to all people. Hell, I don't want no "*****" Zees in Panther Pink with fuzzy seats and illuminated make-up mirrors.

A few colors...a very few options...batch-built...weight-restricted...aero-correct with ZL1 splitter/spoiler...maybe the Heritage Grille for this obviously "heritage" car, as its primary differentiator, appearance-wise, since a crash-test is necessary anyway...

Now...someone start a THREAD on EVERY CAMARO SITE EXTANT...kinda like that luckless "El Camino" deal a few weeks back...soliciting GENUINE ORDER INTENT...

...and THEN send all results/feedback to someone as far up the foodchain in the RenCen as you can reach...

...and I'll raise MY HAND NOW!
I vote this quote of the week!
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:35 PM   #270
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There is nothing really that expensive on the LS3 or most LSx engines. In fact, they may even be cheaper to manufacture than the Camaro's 3.6 V6.

The LS3 is certainly cheaper to make than Ford's 5.0L Coyote motor. For sure MUCH cheaper than the Boss motor. I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't put all of the LS7's forged, titanium, sodium filled, dry sump, fancy pants internals into a 6.2L like the LS3 for far less than what Ford spends on the Boss. The LS3 in the Corvette GS already incorporates the LS7's dry sump system. IF GM is truly serious about this whole deal, why can't they create a Z/28 specific engine off the LS3 in the same way that Ford did for the Boss? Blaming cost in this instance can pretty much be interpreted as not having the will to do it.

As far as the rest of the cost involved, well hey, GM isn't going to be giving these cars away for free. You'll probably be in the $40-$50K range by the time your done. If GM can't deliver the kind of product we're describing here, for that kind of money - then they just need to hang it up and get out of the car biz.
Time!
It would take tooooooo loooooong.

I'm sure it could be done for the low $40's. As a matter of fact I beleive Number 3 agreed on low $40's a few pages back.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:38 PM   #271
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Thanks for your interest. We now have made this the #1 replied to thread in the Z28 section.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:49 PM   #272
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Read the quote attributed to Akerson..."NO NEW ENGINE". And anything you do to an LS3 makes it a "new engine"...even an LS3.1...

Call GMPP...ask for a quote: "LS7 le$$ than LSA?". "Yes, absolutely, how many would you like? Discounts for volume..."

LS7 merely (?!) needs certification/validation in the Camaro chassis with Camaro gearing...just like they're doing for the ZL1...just like they did for the Z06...

Zee28

Exterior - 1SS, (4) available colors, See "Zee28 Performance Package" content

Interior - 1LS, finished in Black Cloth, with 2 additions: *Alcantara Steering Wheel; *Alcantara Shift Knob

Mechanical - 1SS; See "Zee28 Performance Package" content

Zee28 Performance Package - *7.0L LS7 Engine Assembly, *HD. 6-Speed Manual Transmission (ZL1-spec), *HD Rear Axle Assembly with 3.45:1 Ratio (ZL1-spec), * HD Brembo 6-piston (front)/4-piston (rear) Brakes (ZL1-spec), *Special UltraPerformance Suspenion/Bushings (to be determined, non-MR), *Special "Heritage" Grille - body-colored, *Special Front Splitter/Rear Spoiler (ZL1-spec), *Unique 19" X 11" Forged Multi-spoke Wheels, * (4) Michelin Pilot Super Sport Ultra-Performance Summer Tires - P305/30ZR19 (or equivalent), *weight-controlled mastic/deadener/matting

Available Option - USB Port/PDIM

Order Code : 1EZ37

Now...wasn't that EZ?!

Oh...forgot something...

MSRP...$44,995

Oh, say can you ZEE? How patriotic!!

Or, better yet, if the Mustang is a BOSS, then we'll call this one the C E O
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:52 PM   #273
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Thanks for your interest. We now have made this the #1 replied to thread in the Z28 section.
300 more views since 9:30 last night

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Old 06-08-2011, 06:29 PM   #274
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Sing along with me:

To slightly alter a famous Corvette book title, and the words to a kinda famous song...

"Camaro: The Star-Spangled Sporty Car!"

Oh-h build me a ZEE!!
LS7 burning bright
What so proudly will WAIL
In the twilight, a-gleaming
With BROAD STRIPES on BRIGHT CARS
Filled with rumbling MIGHT!
O'er the racetracks we watch
Engine gallantly screaming!!
And the taillights' RED GLARE
The shifts ripping with FLARE
Gave proof, day and night,
Checkered flags are still there!!!
Oh say! Does that star-spangled
Hot car we crave
In the Land of the Free!!!
Mustang owners, be BRAVE!




OK...time for my meds...

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 06-09-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:03 PM   #275
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Very funny!
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