Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
JDP Motorsports
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-05-2011, 11:02 PM   #188
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
If the ZL1 can best the Boss which I Believe it can, I'll buy it, but not for GT500 $$,$$$.

There in lies my problem.
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 11:04 PM   #189
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
If the ZL1 can best the Boss which I Believe it can, I'll buy it, but not for GT500 $$,$$$.
But if its competitive with the GT500 than why would it cost anything less?
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 12:30 AM   #190
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 23,082
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
If the ZL1 can best the Boss which I Believe it can, I'll buy it, but not for GT500 $$,$$$.

There in lies my problem.
If it beats the GT500 (which knowing GM, it should), then it beats the boss by default since the GT500 still out performs the Boss.

If you can't afford a ZL1 to beat the Boss and there isn't a Z28, you could always just mod an SS. Some bolt ons and a good suspension kit should be enough to do the job.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 10:02 AM   #191
OldJedi
Use the Force
 
OldJedi's Avatar
 
Drives: 1967 Corvette, 2012 ZL1, 2015 Z51
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Davie, Fl.
Posts: 3,414
Send a message via AIM to OldJedi
I think that it would be difficult for Chevy to have the Camaro lose 200 to 250 pounds, install an LS7 engine along with coil over suspension and keep the price at a Boss based $42,000. The car would not come with a lot of luxuries that we all have come to enjoy on a daily basis, which will turn off a lot of people. I am going to agree with Number3, we have not seen what the ZL1 can really do yet and I am betting that it will surprise a lot of people, especially the blue oval group. The ZL1 name was brought back to to wreak havoc on the world, starting with the Mustangs.
__________________
Walk softly, carry a light saber and drive a ZL1!
OldJedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 12:09 PM   #192
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
^Exactly!
the missing $40K pricepoint. If your competitor sells a mid price point you need to match them.
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 12:30 PM   #193
Q-ship
 
Drives: 1968 Chevelle, 1971 Monte
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Peoples Socialist Republic of California
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldJedi View Post
I think that it would be difficult for Chevy to have the Camaro lose 200 to 250 pounds, install an LS7 engine along with coil over suspension and keep the price at a Boss based $42,000. The car would not come with a lot of luxuries that we all have come to enjoy on a daily basis, which will turn off a lot of people. I am going to agree with Number3, we have not seen what the ZL1 can really do yet and I am betting that it will surprise a lot of people, especially the blue oval group. The ZL1 name was brought back to to wreak havoc on the world, starting with the Mustangs.
No way is there going to be a LS7 powered Z/28 for 42k, that my friend is a pipe dream. The LS7 is a HANDBUILT engine not the assembly line engine like the LS3 so the cost will not get better with volume. The base Corvette is 49K and a Z06 is 74K, so I know that the SS Camaro will not only go up 10K with addition of the LS7.
Q-ship is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 01:24 PM   #194
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Not simply a matter of wanting to do it. Needs a SOLID business case on top of the SS and ZL1. But your math seems in the ball park. An LS7, forged wheels and HD trans for a 10 to 12,000 dollar premium.

Regarding a Z/28-specific LS3:

But you've just created an even lower volume engine. And that means hand built at Wixom. And that still means BIG $$$$.
Either an LS7 is, or isn't, useable. And if it isn't, then it MUST be based on a Corvette-specific "issue".

As I have said more than once, building Production-ready "custom" LS3s will $ave little, and the end result will be LESS than an LS7, regardless...but NOT in weight.

Now to the "best handling Camaro" wearing the Z/28 name-

Pete has more than a few minutes of experience at a technical track named GingerMan...with all manner of cars including Mustangs and Camaros. Two questions arise:

1) All other factors being equal, what effect does placing 200 lbs (Magnacharger with intercooler and attendant hardware) have on handling, and track times? LS3 with and without 'charger? Mustangs, the same? And how repeatable is Lap 10 or 20, timewise, compared to Lap 1, 2, or 3? What effect does heat-soak have on lap times, over time?

2) Can a less-sophisticated suspension be utlized when you shed 5% of the Curb Weight when ALL of that weight comes off the nose?

Car and Driver's "Lightening Lap" gives us some very interesting "benchmarks":

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p_2011-feature

Run at VIR, these times are certainly "comparable":

2011 Shelby GT500 (3824 lb.) ran 1.9 seconds quicker than the previously tested 2007 cast-iron-blocked GT500, with an 84 lb-off-the-nose aluminum block...3.04 vs. 3.05.9

2011 Cadillac CTS-V (4238 lb.) ran essentially-matching 3.04.2 carrying a 556 hp rating and 400 extra pounds! Good show, MR!

Now take out 100-150 lbs. Based on Mustang's previous example, we'll "guess" a 3.00-flat is likely, and less is possible. Which is STILL 6 secongs off the Z06/Z07 Vette @ 2.53.5.

Two more points:

1) No matter what you put in a Camaro, from the Factory, you'll NOT surpass the GM TrackStar, the Z06 Carbon. And, arguably, I'll say the ZR1 in this environment will NOT beat it, lap after lap after lap, either. So...

2) Put an LS7 in a Camaro, properly chassis-tuned with minimized weight, and I believe, as with the Corvette, an LS7 will MATCH an LSA...if not BEAT it...

Somewhere, someone already has this answer...don't they?

...and, therefore, the likely answer to whether or not we'll see a Gen-5 Z/28...
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 02:32 PM   #195
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,145
Let's be CRYSTAL CLEAR about one thing:

The Z/28 that is desirous is what a '67-'69 was in relation to EVERY OTHER PONY CAR OF THE DAY. A scalpel at a fist fight. 396/375s overran it at the strip. COPOs overran it at the strip. Hemi's overran it at the strip. SO WHAT?

Down Mulholland Dr., or around Sears Point, or Riverside, or...?? GIVE ME A ZEE!

THAT'S the ZEE a goodly number of folks want/need/will buy. In quantities at least equal to the BOSS...if, in fact, it's EQUAL TO THE BOSS.

Anything less than that, approaching comparable money, and it will need another name, not to be sullied from it's historically significant Donohue/Penske roots...

"Heritage"...just like the car's design. Complete with "Piggins Performance"...

Keep in mind, in '69, almost 20,000 were sold...vs. about 5,000 396/375s. Ponder those numbers...and, even then, a Zee had a price advantage over the Big Block SS, even with its "unique" engine...
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 03:15 PM   #196
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
Great post overall. But let's talk about the above for a moment.

I am told pretty definitively that a Z/28 is coming. The implication was that it will be a 5th gen. But that was not stated directly to me. Will it be a 5th gen? Will it be a 6th gen? I posted the conversations I had on the subject on my Camaro Forums at GMI, and in no time flat, rumors were flying everywhere on the internet about a confirmed 5th gen Z/28 - but that's just not altogether true. I'm still not 100% certain if the Z/28 will come in time for the 5th gen or be reserved for the 6th gen.

Let's look at this piece by piece. The ZL1 will be coming out early next year as a '12 MY. You'd think GM would give the ZL1 at least a whole year to bask in the sun before coming out with a Z/28. That makes it a late '13 or early '14 model. Would GM develop a 5th gen Z/28 to sell for one or two model years? Could be - who knows.

ON THE OTHER HAND.......

What if GM decided that the 6th gen is really a more appropriate car for a Z/28? Smaller. Lighter. More sophisticated front and rear suspension. New Gen V direct injected smallblock, with new transmissions. I mean, in a perfect world GM would do both a 5th gen and a 6th gen. But are we in a perfect world?
It's been posted many times across the net that there were groups within GM that DIDN'T want ZL1 to be called Z28 in the 5th Gen because ZL1 didn't represent what Z28 had been. Of course, I keep asking what made a 4th Gen Z28 so special, but we have a different group running the 5th Gen program, so I digress.

If we don't see or hear about Z28 shortly after ZL1 hits the streets, I'm going to really consider there won't be Z28 until the 6th Gen. I can't see GM spending that much more money on a new platform (which I think will be more than stickers and bumper covers) and only run it a couple years. It's one think to run special stripes and seat covers, but I think Z28 will be more about suspension, engine, and maybe transmission revisions. Because I think it'll run an NA Gen IV, I think it'll require different suspension tuning. Anyways, I think these are not small changes that they'd run for only the last 2-3 years over the model run. By that time, I suspect they'd already be under the next generations development

All speculation
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 03:18 PM   #197
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Pete,
After having built up a pretty awesome Camaro you are now given the opportunity to design the Z28 for GM what would you do given the parts bin to raid?

Oh and Number 3 please feel free to jump in.
Here is my run at a build-able Z28 from Chevrolet. It starts with a clearly defined build sheet with no options other than six speed or automatic. Colors are limited to no more than three. I would prefer two colors -- White with Black Wheels and Blue with Yellow Wheels. The cars are built in batches. This is critical because we are deviating from a standard Camaro build. By batching them the line can run with a high level of efficiency as color is the only option.

Engine Choice -- If the LS7 is available at a reasonable price we use the LS7, although a LS3 with a GMPP cam and tune would be good too. My bottom line is we need 500 NA at the crank, or more What I really want is 500 NA at the rear wheels. That means 550 or 560 at the crank. That also means we need heads to go with the cam on the upgraded LS3. I am not sure what it would take on the LS7. I'll accept 500 at the crank, but I would be a drooling idiot with 500 at the rear wheels. LS7 or LS3 doesn't matter as long as we are in the RWHP minimum range of 430.

Weight Reduction -- Everywhere we can from reduced spray in sound insulation - cloth non-power seats - fascia - console - wheels - brakes - exhaust - can you use less paint? No sun roof. No back up camera. The focus is on performance. Wait a minute. Can we replace the side view mirrors with a video display for less wind resistance and the same or less weight?

Wheels and Tires -- You can probably guess 19x10.5 lightweight wheels with 305/30/19s

Gearing -- The smaller rolling diameter wheel and tire package address the gear change, but we'll ask the engineers at Chevrolet to fine tune the gear box ratios for optimal performance

Brakes -- CTS-V / ZL1 calipers with the of the shelf GMPP Brembo two piece front rotors to improve breaking and reduce weight and don't forget the brake ducts

Exhaust -- Titanium borrowed from the Vette. A little more aggressive in tone. This ain't no panty waist machine. We want an edge to it.

Hood and Fascias -- Keep it simple, clean and light. If it doesn't reduce the drag coefficient or add down force it doesn't go on the car. Cold air induction is critical.

Thermal Management -- The LS engine do not like heat and they are furnaces. Lose the sound insulation above the plenum. Lose the engine cover. Lose the hood blanket. Add heat extractors. Coat the cast iron manifold inside and out to reduce heat transfer. Add oil and PS coolers. Can we increase the oil capacity with a new pan? Maybe add a few baffles? Don't forget the diff cooler.

Driveline -- We want the revised ZL1 drive-line since we plan on abusing, err driving this one Change out the lube in the OE CV joints so it doesn't liquefy when running hard laps to a higher temp lube.

Suspension -- Forget the typical OE conservative understeer bias. We prefer axx happier The suspension has to be Pedders Supercars with independent bound and rebound adjustment. We'll address the adjustable ride height with special locking rings that require a special bow-tie track spanner to unlock them. The special bow-tie track spanner is for off road use only In addition to the new revised sub-frame bushes that started in January, we want to add Pedders sub-frame inserts. We'll also use the EP6579 full face radius bush inserts. Pedders extended range alignment bolts are direct replacements for the OE bolts and provide a greater range of adjustment to suit the use of the car. These can all be integrated into the line process. A little trickier are the Toe link bushes. I guess GM will have to ship the OE arm to Pedders and we'll return them with our bushes. Allow me to compliment GM on the ZETA II. The arms are good to go from the factory. They do not need replacement. The arms just need a little assist from Pedders

Steering Wheel -- I love the CTS-V wheel. The ZL1 is close to the CTS-V. We want a wheel with Alcantara for grip. I could care less about the controls on the wheel.

Gauges -- We need real gauges and not simulations of gauges. The oil temp must read from an oil temp sensor with an accurate reading.

Warranty -- We are asking for a lot of performance at the best possible price. I for one would be happy with a 24 month / 36k bumper to bumper. I don't expect GM to cover what I am asking to be built for 100,000 miles on the drive-line. There is a balance to be reached. Deliver me a car that works well. Allow me to beat on it, not run it into the ground, but use it as it was intended to be used for a reasonable period of time. i.e. I was running laps at Harris Hiils. My CV joint failed. Cover my CV joint and allow me to be honest. In exchange I'll take a shorter warranty period.

We have a Z28 that is a very different car from my wife's ZL1. It should sell well and compliment SS and ZL1 sales, b ut that is just my opinion.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 03:27 PM   #198
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Let's be CRYSTAL CLEAR about one thing:

The Z/28 that is desirous is what a '67-'69 was in relation to EVERY OTHER PONY CAR OF THE DAY. A scalpel at a fist fight. 396/375s overran it at the strip. COPOs overran it at the strip. Hemi's overran it at the strip. SO WHAT?

Down Mulholland Dr., or around Sears Point, or Riverside, or...?? GIVE ME A ZEE!

THAT'S the ZEE a goodly number of folks want/need/will buy. In quantities at least equal to the BOSS...if, in fact, it's EQUAL TO THE BOSS.

Anything less than that, approaching comparable money, and it will need another name, not to be sullied from it's historically significant Donohue/Penske roots...

"Heritage"...just like the car's design. Complete with "Piggins Performance"...

Keep in mind, in '69, almost 20,000 were sold...vs. about 5,000 396/375s. Ponder those numbers...and, even then, a Zee had a price advantage over the Big Block SS, even with its "unique" engine...
I hope I 'designed' a sharp enough scalpel for you.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 03:27 PM   #199
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,499
OK... to Pete....

But

Need more colors........ but I Think I'm in on all the rest... what about AC? radio... etc???

you leaving all that in?

and I noticed you say to go with adj coilovers.... No Mag ride for the Z28???



and Ti exhaust??? really? seems a little over kill and expensive...

What do you think a Z28 price point should be??? and no... not what you would be willing to pay for it...

GTAHVIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 03:46 PM   #200
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Here is my run at a build-able Z28 from Chevrolet. It starts with a clearly defined build sheet with no options other than six speed or automatic. Colors are limited to no more than three. I would prefer two colors -- White with Black Wheels and Blue with Yellow Wheels. The cars are built in batches. This is critical because we are deviating from a standard Camaro build. By batching them the line can run with a high level of efficiency as color is the only option.

Engine Choice -- If the LS7 is available at a reasonable price we use the LS7, although a LS3 with a GMPP cam and tune would be good too. My bottom line is we need 500 NA at the crank, or more What I really want is 500 NA at the rear wheels. That means 550 or 560 at the crank. That also means we need heads to go with the cam on the upgraded LS3. I am not sure what it would take on the LS7. I'll accept 500 at the crank, but I would be a drooling idiot with 500 at the rear wheels. LS7 or LS3 doesn't matter as long as we are in the RWHP minimum range of 430.

Weight Reduction -- Everywhere we can from reduced spray in sound insulation - cloth non-power seats - fascia - console - wheels - brakes - exhaust - can you use less paint? No sun roof. No back up camera. The focus is on performance. Wait a minute. Can we replace the side view mirrors with a video display for less wind resistance and the same or less weight?

Wheels and Tires -- You can probably guess 19x10.5 lightweight wheels with 305/30/19s

Gearing -- The smaller rolling diameter wheel and tire package address the gear change, but we'll ask the engineers at Chevrolet to fine tune the gear box ratios for optimal performance

Brakes -- CTS-V / ZL1 calipers with the of the shelf GMPP Brembo two piece front rotors to improve breaking and reduce weight and don't forget the brake ducts

Exhaust -- Titanium borrowed from the Vette. A little more aggressive in tone. This ain't no panty waist machine. We want an edge to it.

Hood and Fascias -- Keep it simple, clean and light. If it doesn't reduce the drag coefficient or add down force it doesn't go on the car. Cold air induction is critical.

Thermal Management -- The LS engine do not like heat and they are furnaces. Lose the sound insulation above the plenum. Lose the engine cover. Lose the hood blanket. Add heat extractors. Coat the cast iron manifold inside and out to reduce heat transfer. Add oil and PS coolers. Can we increase the oil capacity with a new pan? Maybe add a few baffles? Don't forget the diff cooler.

Driveline -- We want the revised ZL1 drive-line since we plan on abusing, err driving this one Change out the lube in the OE CV joints so it doesn't liquefy when running hard laps to a higher temp lube.

Suspension -- Forget the typical OE conservative understeer bias. We prefer axx happier The suspension has to be Pedders Supercars with independent bound and rebound adjustment. We'll address the adjustable ride height with special locking rings that require a special bow-tie track spanner to unlock them. The special bow-tie track spanner is for off road use only In addition to the new revised sub-frame bushes that started in January, we want to add Pedders sub-frame inserts. We'll also use the EP6579 full face radius bush inserts. Pedders extended range alignment bolts are direct replacements for the OE bolts and provide a greater range of adjustment to suit the use of the car. These can all be integrated into the line process. A little trickier are the Toe link bushes. I guess GM will have to ship the OE arm to Pedders and we'll return them with our bushes. Allow me to compliment GM on the ZETA II. The arms are good to go from the factory. They do not need replacement. The arms just need a little assist from Pedders

Steering Wheel -- I love the CTS-V wheel. The ZL1 is close to the CTS-V. We want a wheel with Alcantara for grip. I could care less about the controls on the wheel.

Gauges -- We need real gauges and not simulations of gauges. The oil temp must read from an oil temp sensor with an accurate reading.

Warranty -- We are asking for a lot of performance at the best possible price. I for one would be happy with a 24 month / 36k bumper to bumper. I don't expect GM to cover what I am asking to be built for 100,000 miles on the drive-line. There is a balance to be reached. Deliver me a car that works well. Allow me to beat on it, not run it into the ground, but use it as it was intended to be used for a reasonable period of time. i.e. I was running laps at Harris Hiils. My CV joint failed. Cover my CV joint and allow me to be honest. In exchange I'll take a shorter warranty period.

We have a Z28 that is a very different car from my wife's ZL1. It should sell well and compliment SS and ZL1 sales, b ut that is just my opinion.
YOUR WIFE GETS THE ZL1?!
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 03:52 PM   #201
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post
OK... to Pete....

But

Need more colors........ but I Think I'm in on all the rest... what about AC? radio... etc???

you leaving all that in?

and I noticed you say to go with adj coilovers.... No Mag ride for the Z28???



and Ti exhaust??? really? seems a little over kill and expensive...

What do you think a Z28 price point should be??? and no... not what you would be willing to pay for it...

There is a place for mag ride, but not on MY Z28 Mag ride is too integrated into stability control systems. It wants to drive the car and in many cases will drive the car better than you and I. That said, I want to drive the way I want to drive and that is what a Z28 is to me. A driver's car.

You can save pounds with a titanium exhuast. Saving pounds on exhuast is cheap weight savings even with titanium compared to any body panel, sub-frame or arm changes.

No HVAC turns the Z28 into a club racer and limits volume to a handul of cars. That means the HVAC and radio stay.

I knew colors would be a point of contention. If we only offer the Z28 in two colors we create a stronger identity for the Z28. Two special colors. Available only on the Z28.

Price point..... $45,999.99
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 04:53 PM   #202
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
There is a place for mag ride, but not on MY Z28 Mag ride is too integrated into stability control systems. It wants to drive the car and in many cases will drive the car better than you and I. That said, I want to drive the way I want to drive and that is what a Z28 is to me. A driver's car.

You can save pounds with a titanium exhuast. Saving pounds on exhuast is cheap weight savings even with titanium compared to any body panel, sub-frame or arm changes.

No HVAC turns the Z28 into a club racer and limits volume to a handul of cars. That means the HVAC and radio stay.

I knew colors would be a point of contention. If we only offer the Z28 in two colors we create a stronger identity for the Z28. Two special colors. Available only on the Z28.

Price point..... $45,999.99
Ok I get the logic on all of the above... still gonna argue that the Z28 will be a higher volume car and as such need more color options. Not to open the "what do you call it" debate, but I still think that the name itself communicates a widely available and affordable sports/muscle car...

So I'm thinking the price needs to be below 40K...

Having said that... I'm always amazed at how expensive weight reduction is... I think that is going to be the most difficult hurdle to clear... I like the idea of stripped down.. but I don't know if the price point will support that amount of real weight reduction...

I say go with as many suspension components as possible. Remove the fluff, leather power seats (I get the AC and Radio requirement and I agree it should be there.) very simple stereo with less speakers and so on... and try like hell to keep the price down. If, the buyer wants to pay the aftermarket for lighter stuff... then so be it... we've pretty much proven that Camaro owners are spending large sums of money right now...
GTAHVIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 05:05 PM   #203
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post
Ok I get the logic on all of the above... still gonna argue that the Z28 will be a higher volume car and as such need more color options. Not to open the "what do you call it" debate, but I still think that the name itself communicates a widely available and affordable sports/muscle car...

So I'm thinking the price needs to be below 40K...

Having said that... I'm always amazed at how expensive weight reduction is... I think that is going to be the most difficult hurdle to clear... I like the idea of stripped down.. but I don't know if the price point will support that amount of real weight reduction...

I say go with as many suspension components as possible. Remove the fluff, leather power seats (I get the AC and Radio requirement and I agree it should be there.) very simple stereo with less speakers and so on... and try like hell to keep the price down. If, the buyer wants to pay the aftermarket for lighter stuff... then so be it... we've pretty much proven that Camaro owners are spending large sums of money right now...
The weight reduction I propposed comes with a minimal price tag. Most is just leaving stuff out. i.e. hood blanket, not spraying sound insulation, leaving out the trunck treatment. Better calipers, rotors, wheels, drive-line and $500 RWHP cost money. What is the currect SS base $31K? loaded 36K.

I am guessing we have real money costs to build the Z28 of 5 to 7K. that brings us to $38K, but Chevrolet has to make money on it so we double it $31k + $14K = $45K. Maybe they can build it for less, but I would be shocked if it were less than $40K.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 05:18 PM   #204
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The weight reduction I propposed comes with a minimal price tag. Most is just leaving stuff out. i.e. hood blanket, not spraying sound insulation, leaving out the trunck treatment. Better calipers, rotors, wheels, drive-line and $500 RWHP cost money. What is the currect SS base $31K? loaded 36K.

I am guessing we have real money costs to build the Z28 of 5 to 7K. that brings us to $38K, but Chevrolet has to make money on it so we double it $31k + $14K = $45K. Maybe they can build it for less, but I would be shocked if it were less than $40K.
I can dig it...

Can't wait to see if/when/what
GTAHVIT is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
700 hp z/28 in 2014, the greatest camaro

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BREAKING: 2012 CAMARO ZL1 - 6.2L LSA Supercharged - 6MT Revealed! Tran Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 756 05-01-2013 07:22 AM
Transcript of Camaro ZL1 Q&A Webchat with Chevrolet Tran Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 38 02-17-2012 01:45 AM
Installation Camaro Needed for Manual for a Justice Install Package in SF Bay Area Info@PeddersUSA.com USA - California 6 04-30-2010 09:02 PM
The DEFINITIVE EXPLANATION OF CAMARO SUSPENSION, ISSUES, AND UPGRADES Info@PeddersUSA.com Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 106 10-19-2009 07:08 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.