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Old 06-04-2011, 08:34 AM   #169
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Well, if our guess is close to being right, the car would NOT be a "sleepy zzzzzzzzzzz"...

Besides, it should HONK instead of snore...

If we're already getting the "BIG Z(L1)", maybe we can sneak up on some folks by referring to it as the "Lil Z"...
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:44 AM   #170
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Sure, I like the thought of an LS7 as much as the next guy. But if you can be around 480 hp at essentially the same cost as a run of the mill LS3 - well, that's hard to ignore.

But maybe we're all getting a little too fixated on absolute horsepower. The Z/28 needs to be the total package, with cosmic harmony in the way all of it's parts work together. That really is the key attribute of the Boss Mustang, and that is the magic that GM needs to put it's finger on with a Z/28.
I like majic.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:54 AM   #171
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Pete,
After having built up a pretty awesome Camaro you are now given the opportunity to design the Z28 for GM what would you do given the parts bin to raid?

Oh and Number 3 please feel free to jump in.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:29 AM   #172
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Pete,
After having built up a pretty awesome Camaro you are now given the opportunity to design the Z28 for GM what would you do given the parts bin to raid?

Oh and Number 3 please feel free to jump in.


Let me give this some serious thought. It might take a day or two, cool?
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:06 PM   #173
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very well if you must.

BTW, I like your smiley.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:08 PM   #174
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very well if you must.

BTW, I like your smiley.
Designing THE Z28 does that to a person.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:50 PM   #175
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Shno, you know better...................egZactly
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:08 PM   #176
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Pete,
After having built up a pretty awesome Camaro you are now given the opportunity to design the Z28 for GM what would you do given the parts bin to raid?

Oh and Number 3 please feel free to jump in.
Oh, I've already jumped wayyyyy in.

Most if not all of the ideas are splendid. My biggest concern is pricing one up to the point where you are paying ZL1 money for a car that can't run with a ZL1 just so you can have Z/28 on the fender or grill.

I'm not so sure that you can get a base suspension to handle a lot better than MR.

I'd look to Pete to maybe given an example of a ZR1 with the MR stripped out and a very track focussed suspension added back in. Is there an example of that, Pete?

And if you can't make it handle a LOT better, then even a LS7 won't get up on the LSA in the ZL1.

So I'm not suggesting it can't be done, I'm just suggesting that the $$$/performance ratio has to be better than the ZL1.

But let's compare instead of to the Mustang, but to the brother Corvette.

SS Camaro = Base Corvette

SS Camaro w/ FE4 = GS Corvette

ZL1 Camaro = ZR1 Corvette

Therefore the Z28 = Z06 Corvette

A much more track focussed car than the ZR1, but with less HP.

But is it faster on the track? I don't think so. I think the ZR1 has just tooooo many ponies under the hood to make up for the added accoustical treatment and creature comforts. And flat out, the MR shocks make a pretty good car. Even optional now I think on the Z06.

So if you simply want a car to beat the Boss, shouldn't the ZL1 take car of that?

But if you simply want a more track worthy Camaro, then that is probably a much easier proposition...........................as long as it doesn't have to beat the Boss and only has to clearly beat a Camaro SS around the track.

Everyone seems unanimous that this mythical Z28 should beat the Boss. My biggest concern is that the kit required makes it as much as a ZL1 which I sure hope can give the Boss a good whooopin'.

Most of the speculation is based around NOT KNOWING what the ZL1 is capable of on the track. And we aren't going to know that for a little while yet.

So if the Boss is already beaten by a Camaro, and we don't know that yet, now what is the equation?
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:13 PM   #177
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"Chevrolet isn't in it to be competitive, we are in it to win..."

Those words keep ringing in my ears. Something MUST be brewing on the back stove if they are gonna knock off the horse in head to head competition.
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Old 06-05-2011, 12:56 PM   #178
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Pete and Number3, how much of a price and weight difference (approximately) from a manufacture's perspective would there be comparing MR to a Pedder's coil over & bushing suspension??
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:10 PM   #179
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Just afew observations:

1) There is a reason that the ZL1 got a last minute name change. There is a clarity of mission at the Camaro Team which, frankly, I haven't seen in a LONG, LONG, LONG time. GM is cognisant of the fact that the ZL1 may be a fast car, but it won't be a direct Boss competitor.


2) It is unknown how the final ZL1 package will perform, but if we were to extrapolate data from the CTS-V, Camaro SS and Boss Mustang, I'd guess that a ZL1 would be huffing and puffing to keep up with a Boss around a road course.

3) The Camaro Team could not have been clearer to me. The ZL1 is the GT500 competitor. The Z/28 name is being reserved for the Boss competitor. As it should be.

4) How the "550+ hp", 4100 pound, ZL1 will compete with the 620 hp, 3800 pound, '13 GT500 is fodder for a completely different thread.
Then Houston, we have a problem. You haven't said you'd pay a ZL1 sticker for a Z28.

And I honestly don't know the answer, but I think you are going to be surprised at how much better a track car is than a GT500.

And I'm not quite sure where you get 4100 pounds but without an official number, I can't quibble.

And you have missed my point in that I don't think chassis alone gets you a Camaro that beats the ZL1 around the track without SERIOUS HP to go with it. And that serious HP in the form of a LS7. So there is no boss competitor with an LS3. So what is the alternative that gives you a Boss beater but not a ZL1 beater.

And per point 3, I'd be really curious as to WHO actually told you there is such a car.

So as you seem keenly interested in this mythological car, how do you beat the boss when the ZL1 will very likely do it, but for less money than a ZL1that makes it a boss beater for price, low 40's?

Or as I've asked and no one has answered, will you pay ZL1 money for the Boss Beater even though you won't get the "luxuries" the ZL1 offers. Just a car with a slightly different mission.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:13 PM   #180
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I think that is the point, the Z** should equal/beat the Boss in every way for the same $$,$$$.

It's "better" value something GM is getting "better" at.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:32 PM   #181
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I think that is the point, the Z** should equal/beat the Boss in every way for the same $$,$$$.
Unless there is a different engine in the works that they are going to pull out of no where I just don't think its gonna happen. The LS7 is just to damn expensive for the price range your trying to compete with.

I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this one
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:37 PM   #182
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Just afew observations:

1) There is a reason that the ZL1 got a last minute name change.

How do you know that? Got any facts?


2) I'd guess that a ZL1 would be huffing and puffing to keep up with a Boss around a road course.

I reallllllllly hope your wrong on this one!

3) The Camaro Team could not have been clearer to me.

Why would a team member risk losing his job???

4) How the "550+ hp", 4100 pound, ZL1 will compete with the 620 hp, 3800 pound, '13 GT500 is fodder for a completely different thread.
Im not even going to speculate on a paper race based on RUMORS
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