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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 08-29-2011, 08:09 PM   #926
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Step away from the keyboard, the nice men in white coats are going to come and bring you to the peaceful place where everyone is all smiles and talk in nice, soothing tones Pete, err 2.99. err, umm flounder? Just stay put and stay away from anything pointy or boomy.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:02 AM   #927
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I'm with flounder. I vote flounder for CEO of GM.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:08 AM   #928
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Ok all this cost talk... How can GM spend the money on a CTS sedan, coupe & wagon (really a wagon?) and then on a CTSV sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?) and not build a Z28?
The Z28 is just bolt-ons. Lots of tooling between a sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?).
Your thoughts are required.

Thanks!
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:36 PM   #929
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My biggest surprize in the AutoWorld at the moment (considering escalating fuel prices but shrinking family sizes) is the relative lack of WAGONS! They were initially bludgeoned by the MiniVan rage of the mid/late-'80s, and finished off by CrossOvers. But tallroofed vehicles that weigh more than they need to/should in the real world get lousier gas mileage, and who moves around in a moving vehicle these days to look after Jr. and Missy's messes?! Bring back the WAGON! (I happen to be a LongRoof fan...)

Go to holden.com.au and have a look at the Commodore Wagon...sweet!

Rant over...where's my meds?!

CTS required gap-filling for Cadillac/GM. It had to compete with Volvo (wagons), MB (wagons), Audi (wagons), Lexus (well...), Beemer (um...) and everyone else in that vicinity. Including coupes. V6s and V8s were required. And, to counteract everyone else's (stretching a point, here, so don't flame) more efficient/purposeful OHC V8s, Caddy had to reach for the "blower-pill"..tada! CTS-V as we now know it. Smooth seamless power, docile enough for mom (and her wagon), hot enough for dear ol' dad to teach the youngin's some respect. Validate the Sedan, and the Coupe and Wagon follow...SAME basic structure/platform/chassis, call it what you may.

But the same amount of "engineering" and "validation" that went into creating the CTS-Vs on THEIR platform will need to be repeated for the ZL1 (different chassis) and, hopefully in parallel, the real-deal ZEE/28 (HD driveline/brakes/rolling stock/(hood?).

So, in some ways, the "verification" of the ZEE should be less onerou$ than the CTS-V program was, because some of the CTS-V componentry will carry over (almost intact) to the ZL1, which even more easily translates to "our" ZEE (same platform/chassis).
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:59 PM   #930
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Ok all this cost talk... How can GM spend the money on a CTS sedan, coupe & wagon (really a wagon?) and then on a CTSV sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?) and not build a Z28?
The Z28 is just bolt-ons. Lots of tooling between a sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?).
Your thoughts are required.

Thanks!
I'd rather have a CTW than a CTC

Anyway, it wasn't any work at all to make a -V out of the coupe & wagon once they had the sedan. Mechanically, all 3 are identical.
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Old 08-30-2011, 03:42 PM   #931
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Gotcha, but why the comments on it takes a lot to get a Z28 done? Again its just bolt-ons "compared" to the caddies quite different body work.

What I'm saying is in "comparison" the Z28 is a simple project (for an engineer).
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:21 PM   #932
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Wow (and that is NOT directed at you or anyone specifically).

Remember when the words "SOLID Business Case required" were expressed, some time back?

You would need to be privy to ALL aspects of what GM considers a "SOLID Business Case" to fully aswer this question. And, frankly, I'm not nearly qualified to be the spokesperson...

I can only surmise, based on certain "stuff" I HAVE been a part of in the distant (pre-BK) past...and that "data" may or may not be "inclusive" enough "today"...to approximate an answer. And those who could answer, can't/won't...publicly.

The clock ticks...daily...on the possibility of a Gen-5 Z/28. THAT much I DO know...

There's only so many production months of Gen-5 Camaros left in ANY iteration, so the quicker ALL the numbers get crunched and the data gets digested, the more possibility of such a welcomed version actually gracing a showroom floor in Anytown USA exists.

And, unfortunately, the reverse is true...

As I mentioned last week, let "the people" know...politely, with respect and humility...that YOU are ready to BUY this car at this (sorta) price...as soon as possible, and as soon as possible.

tick-tick-tick
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:48 PM   #933
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Gotcha, but why the comments on it takes a lot to get a Z28 done? Again its just bolt-ons "compared" to the caddies quite different body work.

What I'm saying is in "comparison" the Z28 is a simple project (for an engineer).
Nobody (to my knowledge) said it would be hard to do, perhaps hard to justify sure, but not hard to do (especially one along the lines of whats discussed in this thread).

Now, you could argue that its hard to justify a CTW & CTC and you'd be right. I think their main reason for existence was to give Cadillac some fresh product.
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:27 PM   #934
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The SS was the ultimate Camaro for two model years. Chevrolet is marketing the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro and it is for the moment. The question is, how long is the moment?
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:34 PM   #935
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The SS was the ultimate Camaro for two model years. Chevrolet is marketing the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro and it is for the moment. The question is, how long is the moment?
I have to respectfully disagree. The SS WAS the ultimate Camaro until the 5.0 came out. Now they are a dead heat. Come on Chevy, show us the fabled value!!
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:02 PM   #936
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I have to respectfully disagree. The SS WAS the ultimate Camaro until the 5.0 came out. Now they are a dead heat. Come on Chevy, show us the fabled value!!
I understand what you are saying. Let's take it a step further. When the ZL1 rolls out that 'other' company will step it up. Maybe that is when we see another ultimate Z?
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:28 PM   #937
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I have to respectfully disagree. The SS WAS the ultimate Camaro until the 5.0 came out. Now they are a dead heat. Come on Chevy, show us the fabled value!!
Now you've done it! I think the "ultimate Camaro" discussion has been hashed out, fought over, argued at least 302,000 times (there is significance in that number).
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:44 PM   #938
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GM has obviously placed the ZL1 as he ultimate. A Z28 would be an alternative an AWESOME alternative!
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:46 PM   #939
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Chevrolet is marketing the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro and it is for the moment. The question is, how long is the moment?
Pete's right if you follow the thread to it's logical conclusion. It's been in the works for how many years now? How much R&D and $ is invested in this ZL1? It was initially (by all accounts) to be a Z28 until things went bad. There's just way too much tied up in this model, and I suspect they decided after it survived the brink of disaster to change their vision of what it should be to what it could be. Something can't stay in pre production forever against a continuosly changing competitor who has been evolving uninterupted without something having to be altered or changed. So, the thing that was, will be the thing that is. They sweetened it up even more with loads of all the extra stuff we are hearing it will have to make it the Gojira Camaro. Pretty smart on GM's part...well played Chevy. It's a real Phoenix I feel. So, realisticaly from a sound business model, can we make the business argument to now or in the near future release a Z28? It would compete against the ZL1. It will affect sales. It would be like competing against oneself, as Number 3 said. Makes sense to me. Chevy needs to recoup investment in this product. It's about risk and reward. I don't feel from a profit standpoint they are willing to take that risk. This is the finale at the end of the fireworks show. GM will wait untill the last shell is fired, and last burst is seen to release the Z28. The question is...as Pete said...."how long is the moment?"
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:40 PM   #940
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The business case is this: i (and others like me) won't buy a ZL1, however I will buy a Z28 if it is based on the original Z28 model, a track star.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:27 PM   #941
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The business case is this: i (and others like me) won't buy a ZL1, however I will buy a Z28 if it is based on the original Z28 model, a track star.
Case closed!
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:35 AM   #942
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The business case is this: i (and others like me) won't buy a ZL1, however I will buy a Z28 if it is based on the original Z28 model, a track star.
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Case closed!
This is #2.99. I have with me 2cnd Chance V 2.0 to discuss the Z28 business case. We have decided you will produce the Z28. You have 3 Earth days to decide your fate. We will await your decision. That is all.

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Old 08-31-2011, 10:13 AM   #943
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Couldnt have said it better myself!!!
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:47 PM   #944
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My "fear" for a truly name-worthy Z/28 version (in the likeness of what we've agreed to, and now seek) is that, to answer the "next BIG Camaro thing" question as a follow-up to the vaunted ZL1, so little Gen-5 production time will remain... So, to make the Business Case number$ work, you'll have a bloated pricetag affixed to the window to cover the inevitable development co$t$, now spread over much fewer examples...and/or they'll settle for something less than the LS7...

"Last of the red-hot Gen-5 Camaros...get 'em while you can!!"

And that would be a shame...
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Old 08-31-2011, 02:44 PM   #945
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The magazines are not saying much any more about the Camaro. I know the ZL1 will revive the excitement, but the pricepoint will not be attainable by the average car guy/girl. In effect it will have the somewhat the same stir as a new Ferrari pasted on the front of a car mag. Oh I wish I could... So when the interest dives again a release of a very familiar nameplate at a more moderate $$$ should spur enthusiasm and attainability.
Repeat after me Z28, Z28, Z28...
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:53 PM   #946
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My "fear" for a truly name-worthy Z/28 version (in the likeness of what we've agreed to, and now seek) is that, to answer the "next BIG Camaro thing" question as a follow-up to the vaunted ZL1, so little Gen-5 production time will remain... So, to make the Business Case number$ work, you'll have a bloated pricetag affixed to the window to cover the inevitable development co$t$, now spread over much fewer examples...and/or they'll settle for something less than the LS7...

"Last of the red-hot Gen-5 Camaros...get 'em while you can!!"

And that would be a shame...
Yes, it would, and without a powerplant such as the mighty LS7, N/A of course, the end would not justify the means. Look, the Z28 for all practical and historical means IS the face of the Camaro. Real performance is back for the Camaro since it's rebirth. We are not suffering any longer from fluff, emblems or decals with the absence of gosh darn, honest to goodness performance as we had in the olden days. The Z28 does not have to beat down the ZL1..it just needs to be brought back, in this current platform, with the current goodies already available. The parts bin is stout, we can build it...we have the technology. Where is Steve Austin???
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The magazines are not saying much any more about the Camaro. I know the ZL1 will revive the excitement, but the pricepoint will not be attainable by the average car guy/girl. In effect it will have the somewhat the same stir as a new Ferrari pasted on the front of a car mag. Oh I wish I could... So when the interest dives again a release of a very familiar nameplate at a more moderate $$$ should spur enthusiasm and attainability.
Repeat after me Z28, Z28, Z28...
...Z/28...Z/28...Z/28...
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:21 PM   #947
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Oscar Goldman

Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic man. Steve Austin will be that man. Better than he was before. Better, stronger, faster.


Fast Foward to an Unnamed GM Executive

Gentlemen, we can build a Z/28. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's best handling Z/28. 2014 will be the year to release it. Better than the legendary Z/28 was before. Better, stronger, faster.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:55 PM   #948
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Pete, how much for everything you'd suggest Pedderswise for the Camaro?
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:54 PM   #949
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My "fear" for a truly name-worthy Z/28 version (in the likeness of what we've agreed to, and now seek) is that, to answer the "next BIG Camaro thing" question as a follow-up to the vaunted ZL1, so little Gen-5 production time will remain... So, to make the Business Case number$ work, you'll have a bloated pricetag affixed to the window to cover the inevitable development co$t$, now spread over much fewer examples...and/or they'll settle for something less than the LS7...

"Last of the red-hot Gen-5 Camaros...get 'em while you can!!"

And that would be a shame...
"2014 will be the year to release it."

Pete, IF you're referring to a Gen-5 Camaro Z/28 in calendar year 2014, these two quotes unfortunately may go together...

Let's hope that "imaginary" discussion means/meant MY '14, circa early CY '13!
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:40 PM   #950
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Pete, how much for everything you'd suggest Pedderswise for the Camaro?
Less than $6,000,000












A Z would have to have:
Supercars
Sways
Sub-frame and radius bushes

With some creative accounting retail would be $4K.
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