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Old 10-06-2011, 09:43 PM   #1201
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We should be close to 620 at the rears. The TQ is what I am really excited about. It comes on low , fat and flat. That will make the Project Z predictable. Predictable is fast. It will be a driver's dream.
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:51 PM   #1202
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I don't know about mythical. Our intention is to make it legendary. It will carry a Z on it so anything less would be unacceptable.

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Old 10-06-2011, 10:04 PM   #1203
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I'm having an LSX-427 build in progress for my SS, it has forged internals, LSX heads, CAM, ProCharger and the upgraded fuel system.
We're estimating close to 800rwhp. and that's just scratching the surface. The same shop just completed a forged Z06 w/ LS7 a Vortech SC and it made 730rwhp.
I assure you the only ZL1 that will keep up to me will be the ZL1's that are modified with a stroker and SC that has more than a 1.9L capacity.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:25 PM   #1204
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
We should be close to 620 at the rears. The TQ is what I am really excited about. It comes on low , fat and flat. That will make the Project Z predictable. Predictable is fast. It will be a driver's dream.
I'm sorry Pete but thats a 9% loss, and I just can't believe that it will be that efficient. If you say it will be 680ish at the crank, then I'd expect it to be somewhere around 590 to the wheel.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:52 PM   #1205
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I'm sorry Pete but thats a 9% loss, and I just can't believe that it will be that efficient. If you say it will be 680ish at the crank, then I'd expect it to be somewhere around 590 to the wheel.
I'd agree with that, the estimate most peole use is about 15% loss from crank to rear.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:54 PM   #1206
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Oh did 2.99 say 680? I think Pete said 720.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:01 PM   #1207
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Oh did 2.99 say 680? I think Pete said 720.
I'm guessing that's a NA LSX engine.
As for 680rwhp. on the LS3, put forged internals, replace entire head assembly (including the cheap GM valves), put on a ProCharger and ta-da.
A little freebie for those of you who want to smoke the ZL1 without having to replace entire engine.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:17 PM   #1208
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
We should be close to 620 at the rears. The TQ is what I am really excited about. It comes on low , fat and flat. That will make the Project Z predictable. Predictable is fast. It will be a driver's dream.
Exciting stuff !! can't wait to see the car & learn more when it's announced at SEMA. Can I ask what color your SEMA car is ? & Any stripes, & what color stripes ?
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:13 AM   #1209
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Originally Posted by calbert1999 View Post
I'm guessing that's a NA LSX engine.
As for 680rwhp. on the LS3, put forged internals, replace entire head assembly (including the cheap GM valves), put on a ProCharger and ta-da.
A little freebie for those of you who want to smoke the ZL1 without having to replace entire engine.
so throw all your parts away but keep the block.

it won't be an LS3, and if you're going to all that trouble you might as well install an lsx454.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #1210
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Originally Posted by calbert1999 View Post
I'm having an LSX-427 build in progress for my SS, it has forged internals, LSX heads, CAM, ProCharger and the upgraded fuel system.
We're estimating close to 800rwhp. and that's just scratching the surface. The same shop just completed a forged Z06 w/ LS7 a Vortech SC and it made 730rwhp.
I assure you the only ZL1 that will keep up to me will be the ZL1's that are modified with a stroker and SC that has more than a 1.9L capacity.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:39 PM   #1211
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I'm sorry Pete but thats a 9% loss, and I just can't believe that it will be that efficient. If you say it will be 680ish at the crank, then I'd expect it to be somewhere around 590 to the wheel.
Chevrolet lists the ZR1 at 638 HP. There are base line dyno runs showing the OE ZR1 between 578 558 to the rear wheels or 9 to 12% loss. Some of this can be explained by variations in OE engine output and / or differences in dynos. Using the same range we would be 598 to 612 RWHP or 605 split down the middle . Now if our engine dyno readings are a bit on the conservative side the 620 could be a real number or not.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:40 PM   #1212
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Oh did 2.99 say 680? I think Pete said 720.
I thought he said LS7
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:28 PM   #1213
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I thought he said LS7
Oh please You have no proof of that whatsoever....

Seriously, I'd love to see both beastly NA and Blown Camaros kick'n booty on the streets... but with all the fuel economy crap... are we really going to ignore a TT V6 or a or a baby LS7???

lets use the Vete as a bench mark...

base vette = SS
Z06 or Grand sport = Z28
ZR1 = ZL1

Think about that for a minute. I would love to see a 600hp LS7 but that doesn't make sense if we are thinking the ZL1 will be top dog in the Camaro HP race...

Just throwing that out there...

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Old 10-07-2011, 02:38 PM   #1214
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Think about that for a minute. I would love to see a 600hp LS7 but that doesn't make sense if we are thinking the ZL1 will be top dog in the Camaro HP race...

Just throwing that out there...

We are not talking factory here.... We are going way above and beyond GM!

JP special Z FTW!
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:01 PM   #1215
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Vette as "benchmark":

Z06 @ 3199 Curb = 7:22 @ the 'Ring (-133 "rated" hp)

ZR1 @ 3353 Curb = 7:19 @ the 'Ring (+154 "rated" lb.)

I believe you'll find a greater weight difference between a ZL1 and a "wet" LS7'd ZEE, but NOT as much hp. differential...

Whether equipped with a lower weight-optimized MR, or a BOSS-type "mechanical-only" weight-conscious suspension (non-MR), with 305s fr-rr, a ZEE could be a match (or veryvery close) for the ZL1...just as the BOSS, minus 100+ hp, is to the GT 500 at places like VIR...

It's one thing to have gi-normous power but, as the Vette shows/proves, it's another thing altogether to use that power effectively at all times.

And, as good as MR may be, it's not likely to harness almost 600 hp in 4100 lbs effectively at all times...it doesn't in the 3353 lb. ZR1...

IF the ZL1 is street-ready @ 4100 lbs, with 580 hp, that = 7.07 lb/hp. For an LS7 weighing 3850 lb (1SS Curb), 7.07 = 545 hp...NOT "impossible"...

As to the PEDDERS et al ZEE-something, some serious power is capable, at a significant weight-savings, with a massaged LS7...or WARHAWK...well beyond the LSA's "rated" 580/556...without the added mass of FI... 2 or 300 lb. on a road course car is mammoth weight to carry...and very significant to delete...

I suspect what's coming for SEMA is NOT hampered by GM's production viability constraints. Weight-savings that Oshawa will not have to worry about will be included. And the power-to-weight will dwarf the ZL1...as will its performance capabilities...

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 10-07-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:47 PM   #1216
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There are very valid reasons why the "Corvette track-star" is considered to be the Z06/Z07. It takes an incredibly talented "shoe" to wring 100% (or close to it) out of a ZR1. The car IS a monster, and not for the short-of-talent in any way...shape...form. Not that a Z06 is soooo much easier to "handle"...but it's certainly easier to get near-10/10ths out of a 500 hp car, than it is a 638 hp car. As it would also be on the street...

And so would a "production LS7" ZEE vs. a ZL1...less weight, less dough, more "fun", more sense of accomplishment. And maybe...just maybe...just as quick around a track...

More smiles per mile!

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Old 10-07-2011, 05:27 PM   #1217
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Oh please You have no proof of that whatsoever....

Seriously, I'd love to see both beastly NA and Blown Camaros kick'n booty on the streets... but with all the fuel economy crap... are we really going to ignore a TT V6 or a or a baby LS7???

lets use the Vete as a bench mark...

base vette = SS
Z06 or Grand sport = Z28
ZR1 = ZL1

Think about that for a minute. I would love to see a 600hp LS7 but that doesn't make sense if we are thinking the ZL1 will be top dog in the Camaro HP race...

Just throwing that out there...

GM never asked US (the Z/28 guys in this thread) what version of the Camaro should be Top Dog. More import is the Top Dog Camaro was the Pedders USA Camaro, you know, what the ZL1 used for a benchmark, the car that ran as fast as a Z06 TWO years ago. Now if you thought for a split second that have been sitting idly by waiting for GM match us us on track

Dear GM,

Don't be upset with Pedders. We are using GMPP Pedders parts to go faster than the ZL1 and several versions of the Vette


As for CAFE -- Note to GM: SELL MORE VOLTS, Sonics and Cruzes. A LOT more so no one feels the impact of a ground pounding LS7 V8 in the cars we love. Maybe package them. One 600 RWHP LS7 Camaro with one Sonic and a Diesel Cruze

Who is coming to SEMA?
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #1218
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Vette as "benchmark":

Z06 @ 3199 Curb = 7:22 @ the 'Ring (-133 "rated" hp)

ZR1 @ 3353 Curb = 7:19 @ the 'Ring (+154 "rated" lb.)

I believe you'll find a greater weight difference between a ZL1 and a "wet" LS7'd ZEE, but NOT as much hp. differential...

Whether equipped with a lower weight-optimized MR, or a BOSS-type "mechanical-only" weight-conscious suspension (non-MR), with 305s fr-rr, a ZEE could be a match (or veryvery close) for the ZL1...just as the BOSS, minus 100+ hp, is to the GT 500 at places like VIR...

It's one thing to have gi-normous power but, as the Vette shows/proves, it's another thing altogether to use that power effectively at all times.

And, as good as MR may be, it's not likely to harness almost 600 hp in 4100 lbs effectively at all times...it doesn't in the 3353 lb. ZR1...

IF the ZL1 is street-ready @ 4100 lbs, with 580 hp, that = 7.07 lb/hp. For an LS7 weighing 3850 lb (1SS Curb), 7.07 = 545 hp...NOT "impossible"...

As to the PEDDERS et al ZEE-something, some serious power is capable, at a significant weight-savings, with a massaged LS7...or WARHAWK...well beyond the LSA's "rated" 580/556...without the added mass of FI... 2 or 300 lb. on a road course car is mammoth weight to carry...and very significant to delete...

I suspect what's coming for SEMA is NOT hampered by GM's production viability constraints. Weight-savings that Oshawa will not have to worry about will be included. And the power-to-weight will dwarf the ZL1...as will its performance capabilities...
Spot on as always.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #1219
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Who is coming to SEMA?
Only if you can get me in....
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:30 PM   #1220
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There are very valid reasons why the "Corvette track-star" is considered to be the Z06/Z07. It takes an incredibly talented "shoe" to wring 100% (or close to it) out of a ZR1. The car IS a monster, and not for the short-of-talent in any way...shape...form. Not that a Z06 is soooo much easier to "handle"...but it's certainly easier to get near-10/10ths out of a 500 hp car, than it is a 638 hp car. As it would also be on the street...

And so would a "production LS7" ZEE vs. a ZL1...less weight, less dough, more "fun", more sense of accomplishment. And maybe...just maybe...just as quick around a track...

More smiles per mile!
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:30 PM   #1221
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Only if you can get me in....
They may not let me in
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:36 PM   #1222
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They may not let me in
That I highly doubt!
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:16 PM   #1223
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so throw all your parts away but keep the block.

it won't be an LS3, and if you're going to all that trouble you might as well install an lsx454.
You'll still have an LS3 but a properly built LS3 that won't fall apart under boost. Call it whatever you want for that matter, GM uses same block on all their engines uses better internals on some of them and then labels them LS3, LS7, or LSA, who cares about labels. I like Levis', because they stand the test of time, can use the same baseline and voila you have Parasuco. Know what I mean? The LS3 block and heads are the baseline, the rest is mix / match depending on what kind of power you want and confidence it won't grenade when you're at WOT.

Keep heads, and block and everything else, just replace pistons / rods, crank should be good to 800hp. But, everything else is trash.

If you want NA then there are other options, or get a 454 (if you have the scratch), but don't put any adders on it or you'll end up with a nice conversation piece in the middle of your living room.

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GM never asked US (the Z/28 guys in this thread) what version of the Camaro should be Top Dog. More import is the Top Dog Camaro was the Pedders USA Camaro, you know, what the ZL1 used for a benchmark, the car that ran as fast as a Z06 TWO years ago. Now if you thought for a split second that have been sitting idly by waiting for GM match us us on track

Dear GM,

Don't be upset with Pedders. We are using GMPP Pedders parts to go faster than the ZL1 and several versions of the Vette

As for CAFE -- Note to GM: SELL MORE VOLTS, Sonics and Cruzes. A LOT more so no one feels the impact of a ground pounding LS7 V8 in the cars we love. Maybe package them. One 600 RWHP LS7 Camaro with one Sonic and a Diesel Cruze

Who is coming to SEMA?
Finally. Right on bro'. Nobody sitting around waiting for GM to decide how they're going to make more money sucking in consumers to buy muscle that's been surpased already by some dudes in their garage. I always say; Whatever GM comes out with, the aftermarket will have something 10x better that can be put on the lowest end Camaro and still kill the top dog GM version.
Of course die hard fans most popular comeback is "what about your warranty". LOL

I can't wait to see what you guys come out with next, my installer has your products (top to bottom / front to back) on their shop SS and I can tell you "if" the ZL1 grips the road any better it might be a 1-2% improvement, and I even doubt that.

My opinion is it's always a halfway job from the manufacturer which is a mediocre baseline that can be used for improvements. And, the reason is not because GM doesn't know how to do it better (they have race teams that do this for a living), its' a balance of the budget vs the deliverable and how much they forecast sales and estimate how much they can sell the vehicle.

So, by this tiem next summer there will be a bunch of 2010 Camaro SS, LSX, SSX, TT/I, TI, and a whole slew of other labels that will smoke the ZL1, Z/28 or anything else they come out with because they'll have the most displacement, biggest air adders, and sickest suspension upgrades you can buy on the open market.

Cheers to Pedders for making awesome products.

BTW - Thanks, for the on my 427 build, can't wait, getting impatient. Couldn't drive all summer.

Last edited by calbert1999; 10-07-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:25 PM   #1224
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I'd be very thankful...and in the buyers' lineup at Local Chevrolet...for an n/a LS7 ZEE that makes 5% more power than an LSA, and has 5% less weight than a ZL1...for (5% + 5% =) 10% le$$...

"OK, LOWDOWN, time for your MEDS!!"

Actually, (+5% - 5% =) the SAME price would work...but only under these criteria...with a 5/100 warranty.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:35 PM   #1225
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I'd be very thankful...and in the buyers' lineup at Local Chevrolet...for an n/a LS7 ZEE that makes 5% more power than an LSA, and has 5% less weight than a ZL1...for (5% + 5% =) 10% le$$...

"OK, LOWDOWN, time for your MEDS!!"

Actually, (+5% - 5% =) the SAME price would work...but only under these criteria...with a 5/100 warranty.
You know after buying the SS I don't trust GM anymore. I'll mod mine to what I expect it to be, and that will be the last big purchase I ever make from domestic automakers, unless it's a used viper. I hear they're going for 30-40k in the US. Or a winter beater on it's last lege for $2k. LOL
But, that's it man. I gave GM one last chance to step up after the bail-out and they messed up big time.
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