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Old 10-07-2011, 07:47 PM   #1226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calbert1999 View Post
You know after buying the SS I don't trust GM anymore. I'll mod mine to what I expect it to be, and that will be the last big purchase I ever make from domestic automakers, unless it's a used viper. I hear they're going for 30-40k in the US. Or a winter beater on it's last lege for $2k. LOL
But, that's it man. I gave GM one last chance to step up after the bail-out and they messed up big time.
Why, because parts designed for a 426 hp NA engine break when you add boost?
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:54 PM   #1227
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You know after buying the SS I don't trust GM anymore. I'll mod mine to what I expect it to be, and that will be the last big purchase I ever make from domestic automakers, unless it's a used viper. I hear they're going for 30-40k in the US. Or a winter beater on it's last lege for $2k. LOL
But, that's it man. I gave GM one last chance to step up after the bail-out and they messed up big time.
I guess you should sale your SS then. because no matter how far you try to get, it's still going to have something GM made. and why keep something you don't trust? I'm sorry I just don't see why you would waste money on something you obviously don't like.

oh and btw just because it has heads and block of an LS3 doesn't make it an ls3. LS376. not designated an LS3 but has heads, block and most of the same internals. if you remove all internals to install forged ones you might as well build a better all around engine with forged internals from the ground up. Then sale the current engine from intake to oil pan. you have to remove the engine anyways to replace those internals.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:06 PM   #1228
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I'd be very thankful...and in the buyers' lineup at Local Chevrolet...for an n/a LS7 ZEE that makes 5% more power than an LSA, and has 5% less weight than a ZL1...for (5% + 5% =) 10% le$$...

"OK, LOWDOWN, time for your MEDS!!"

Actually, (+5% - 5% =) the SAME price would work...but only under these criteria...with a 5/100 warranty.
Yo GM!!! If you build it they will come
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:50 PM   #1229
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Yo GM!!! If you build it they will come
JP, considering the lower ride height, internals, etc, how realistic the factory would ever do something close to this to offer public with a warranty?



I'm just not in the camp that thinks GM will build a normally aspirated engine for public consumption (Z28)above or even close to what ZL1 has. I'm thinking maybe 550HP and about 300 lbs less is about all. Maybe... if they even do it before Gen6.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:11 PM   #1230
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...loud and clear Pete! And I especially like hearing about the part of it hitting the streets . I talked to a source yesterday about my affinity and connection with the Z-28 and he replied why not then wait for the Z-28. Understanding it was an eventuallity gives no comfort to a performance enthusiast who can obtain something now for a predictable price rather than wait on uncertainty. I can't wait much longer. At my age grabbing a sure thing is better than waiting for something intangible that will or may happen in the near or distant future. My camp reside here, I am a Z-28 guy, and my spendible income for a Chevy Z-28 depends on if, when, and how much the Z-28 comes in at as a factory produced ride. So, in the end, the fact that I may be in on the ZL1 does not preclude me from jumping ship down the road when the time is right. I'm optomistic. You're commitment to this end will be doing the groundwork for such a future project.
Ditto! OldSchool...... like a mindreader!! That "other" finish line is all too consuming to ignore.......
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:13 AM   #1231
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Yo GM!!! If you build it they will come
Actually were already here.
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:05 AM   #1232
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The reality of the LS7 situation is, there is precedence for more output. Folks like LPE and Katech, two GM-friendly and -associated "power consultants", offer long-term warranteed versions of this fine engine with well over 550 hp. 600+, in fact...

If GM can raise the LSA stakes by 4.3% (580 vs. 556), I'm confident the same factor could apply to the LS7...which could then total 527 hp. With 5/100 coverage...

A Z/28, brought in at 1SS Curb (3850) with an enhanced LS7 rating (527) would deliver a power-to-weight of 7.30. Remember when folks ooh'd 'n awed at the ZL1's possibility of a 7.24 (4025/556)???

With at least 200 fewer pounds over the nose, which one would outrun which?

Witching, indeed...

Too bad Vince Piggins wasn't around to take "Pete" Estes for another "test drive"... Maybe Ron Fellows could drag Dan A. kickin' 'n screamin' 'round Spring Mountain...
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:03 AM   #1233
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JP, considering the lower ride height, internals, etc, how realistic the factory would ever do something close to this to offer public with a warranty?



I'm just not in the camp that thinks GM will build a normally aspirated engine for public consumption (Z28)above or even close to what ZL1 has. I'm thinking maybe 550HP and about 300 lbs less is about all. Maybe... if they even do it before Gen6.
There are some inside GM that think like we do. Some own Z/28s and really get it. The positioning of the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro is a challenge, BUT in the world of marketing there is always room for NEW & IMPROVED, That was Then This is Now. The ZO6 comes thisclose to the ZR1 making you wonder if the Z06 with options driver was holding back just a hair to protect the ZL1 as King of Corvettes GTAHVIT wants an ordely organization of name plates with a defined position. He is not alone. I am a bit less conventional. I want what I want and I don't really car about the pecking order.

Just thinking out loud, but rather than have a prospect thinking about Shelby GT500 and the ZL1 or the BOSS 302 LS and the ZL1 why not alter the equation. Should I buy a Z/28 or an ZL1. The magazines would run articles Z/28 vs ZL1 Smack Down. The New King of Camaros Z/28 in September. The King is Dead, Long Live the King ZL1 Roars Past the Z/28 in February when they switch positions. Ford? Are they still in business???

GM has the capability to build a higher output LS7. IMO the real issue is the cost of the engine at upgrade. Lowering is another issue because of crash testing. You would think there would be a loophole that could be exploited . They built the car on Supercar coilovers. We could add a sleeve between the lower mount lock ring and spring perch lock ring that fixed the height at OE. It could be labeled DO NOT REMOVE with appropriate legal text or perhaps no text is required. How many modified 5th Gens are there on the road?

This gives you a factory Z/28 with an LS7 and independent bound and rebound adjustment in the coilovers. We do the cloth seats and delete some sound deadening. We increase the rear bar diameter and run a square wheel and tire setup. Make titanium exhaust an option and we have a true to the legacy Z/28.

There is always room for a tune with headers to take a few more pounds out of the front end and add a few ponies. Some might ignore the disassemble the coilovers and lower the car

It all depends on the mind set of the Camaro TEAM. Threads like this, emails, in person contact with the Camaro TEAM, contact with the Disciples are all very important to those that want a a Z/28. Make it a point to let them know what you want.

If the Z/28 is off the table, would the Z/28 enthusiasts buy the car I just detailed as an IROC?
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:43 PM   #1234
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Pete...it would be better than getting hit in the EYE with a ROCK...and hopefully a LOT better 'n buyin' a BOSS...

My single caveat, lo these many months..."But you gotta wanna do it..." from bottom to TOP...

Ride height adjustment, with simple hand tools, has been around for quite awhile, now, with Vettes..."lowering bolts" ring a bell?

Are Supercar coilovers "passable" as an OEM piece? What other parts/pieces are readily OEM-usable? Bars...bushings...etc. How about the 2-piece front rotors?

If these items are NOT "for OEM use", can these be "bundled" as a "TrackDay" accessory, through GMPP?

Obviously, the ZL1 wheels/tires are "effective", but would "square" 305s on 19s save more weight and add more gription?

Is an LS7 @ 525 "warrantee-able"?

How close to 3850 can Oshawa realistically get with this combo? Mid-$40s? Volume?

Proper, valid answers to these, and other, questions would help mollify those in charge of creating a "proper business case"...and those they answer to...
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:51 PM   #1235
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Thumbs up Thanks for the feedback!

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There are some inside GM that think like we do. Some own Z/28s and really get it. The positioning of the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro is a challenge, BUT in the world of marketing there is always room for NEW & IMPROVED, That was Then This is Now. The ZO6 comes thisclose to the ZR1 making you wonder if the Z06 with options driver was holding back just a hair to protect the ZL1 as King of Corvettes GTAHVIT wants an ordely organization of name plates with a defined position. He is not alone. I am a bit less conventional. I want what I want and I don't really car about the pecking order.

Just thinking out loud, but rather than have a prospect thinking about Shelby GT500 and the ZL1 or the BOSS 302 LS and the ZL1 why not alter the equation. Should I buy a Z/28 or an ZL1. The magazines would run articles Z/28 vs ZL1 Smack Down. The New King of Camaros Z/28 in September. The King is Dead, Long Live the King ZL1 Roars Past the Z/28 in February when they switch positions. Ford? Are they still in business???

GM has the capability to build a higher output LS7. IMO the real issue is the cost of the engine at upgrade. Lowering is another issue because of crash testing. You would think there would be a loophole that could be exploited . They built the car on Supercar coilovers. We could add a sleeve between the lower mount lock ring and spring perch lock ring that fixed the height at OE. It could be labeled DO NOT REMOVE with appropriate legal text or perhaps no text is required. How many modified 5th Gens are there on the road?

This gives you a factory Z/28 with an LS7 and independent bound and rebound adjustment in the coilovers. We do the cloth seats and delete some sound deadening. We increase the rear bar diameter and run a square wheel and tire setup. Make titanium exhaust an option and we have a true to the legacy Z/28.

There is always room for a tune with headers to take a few more pounds out of the front end and add a few ponies. Some might ignore the disassemble the coilovers and lower the car

It all depends on the mind set of the Camaro TEAM. Threads like this, emails, in person contact with the Camaro TEAM, contact with the Disciples are all very important to those that want a a Z/28. Make it a point to let them know what you want.

If the Z/28 is off the table, would the Z/28 enthusiasts buy the car I just detailed as an IROC?
Pete, you truly rock with the creative spirits! You have solutions as well as foresight on this. Combined = Success, which you obviously have. It's hard imagining how they would condense the launches so close together, but it sure would do what you say... Add momentum to the Gen5, gathering competitive market share, maybe even grow the pie.

Not being a "diehard racer", I'd like to see the removal of sound dampening material and option. I'd actually like to see them allow for addition of Dynamat INCREASED sound deadening in a Z28.... add the 30 lbs to let me feel quietness on any long trips!! Allowing it to be a dual purpose vehicle rather than straight race....

Again, You're Response was much appreciated!
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:08 PM   #1236
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Justice Pete, I agree that the changes you proposed would make a great Z/28, the question then becomes what and how far is Chevrolet willing to go? I think that many times their "first vision" would be an excellent production version, then the compromises and deal making within the Chevy Division dilute and water down the final product. I would hope they get it together to actually build a version close to your vision, but reality tells me it probably won't happen. Or maybe they will surprise us and get really close to what people have suggested in this thread. I hope they do it sooner rather than later, I think there are many people that would like to be able to make a decision in the near future about an impending purchase.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:11 PM   #1237
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Yo GM!!! If you build it they will come
or maybe we can say YOU will build it Pete, and GM will come ...then WE can buy it at dealership in the near furture. That's what I am banking on. You're clearing the path for the return.!
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:18 PM   #1238
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Call me crazy but I think we are going to hear something sooner than later..... and the sooner the better!
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:34 AM   #1239
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Call me crazy but I think we are going to hear something sooner than later..... and the sooner the better!
Amen, brother!
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:49 AM   #1240
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Call me crazy but I think we are going to hear something sooner than later..... and the sooner the better!
Well they only have 13 hours to announce it today for my birthday.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:52 AM   #1241
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Well they only have 13 hours to announce it today for my birthday.
Maybe not that soon.....
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:59 AM   #1242
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Maybe not that soon.....
I hate you. Just sayin...
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:59 AM   #1243
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Maybe not that soon.....
What it would be the perfect gift from GM to me that I could share with everyone.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:01 AM   #1244
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I hate you. Just sayin...
What did I do?????


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What it would be the perfect gift from GM to me that I could share with everyone.
That would be pretty freckin sweet!
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:29 AM   #1245
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What did I do?????

That would be pretty freckin sweet!
They fired Stoops....
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:33 AM   #1246
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They fired Stoops....
Ohhhh crap... I did not know that! Gonna have to go read about that now...


EDIT: I still dont see why Im getting hated on.......
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:35 PM   #1247
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I want to spill the commercial can of beans, but I only have

• Tremec 6060 6 Speed Manual Transmission
• MTI Short Throw Shifter
• Driveshaft Shop HD 1400HP Axle Shafts
• Be Cool Radiator
• American Racing Headers
• Forgeline Wheels, 20”X10.5”
• Michelin Tires, 305/35ZR20
• Specter Werkes Extractor Hood
• RPM Six Point Roll Bar
• Corbeau TRS Leather Seats and 5 Point Belts
• LS7 Engine, 681HP @ 6700 RPM / 588 LB/FT @5600
• 9.5” Differential, 373 Ratio with no preload TracRite® GT – Helical Gear Limited Slip

In a few days and no further than 10 days out. I'll name names and post a rendering. I believe that this Camaro build will be a community event. There are so many that have contributed. This thread is a perfect example. I can't imagine GM isn't watching and learning because we certainly are. The only portion of this build that will disappoint the true Z/28 enthusiast is the price point. That is the only bad news and it really isn't that bad. The first car is built to a ridiculous standard. Customer builds will reflect the customer's wants, desires and budget. Only GM would be able to produce the Z/28 with more customer friendly pricing because they won't have a pile of expensive take off parts. You know, a LS3, a Tremec gear box, Brembo brakes, suspension, wheels and tires... not to mention the labor to strip it all out.

The ZL1 posted spectacular numbers from the Ring run. I 'know' what our car would do, but knowing and proving are two different things. I have checked a number of items off my bucket list. I have not checked off the run the Ring with a Pedderised Camaro box. Then again, I wasn't too sure I would be involved in a build like this

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Old 10-11-2011, 12:38 PM   #1248
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Call me crazy but I think we are going to hear something sooner than later..... and the sooner the better!
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Amen, brother!
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Well they only have 13 hours to announce it today for my birthday.
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Maybe not that soon.....
Soon is a relative term

Happy Birthday Blizzard!
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:53 PM   #1249
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Depending on the ZL1 pricing I may find myself following what Pete is up to. I would love the see that 'Ring time.
Picking some parts from the above I think you could make your own corner carver for less than a ZL1. Figure a nice SS for about $35k, add $10k in mods, save $10k from a ZL1. I know what a Pedderised G8 can do (amazing), maybe one of these days I'll be in a Pederised SS.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:06 PM   #1250
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What it would be the perfect gift from GM to me that I could share with everyone.
You have a birthday next year though, right?
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