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Old 07-29-2011, 04:43 PM   #715
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Where the weight is makes a huge difference.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:34 PM   #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Well, about the only thing I can think of that thicker walls are good for are forced induction.

As for the weight ... we're talking about 2 or 3 lbs of aluminum going from a 4.125 bore to 4.06, vs ~100 to supercharge it.


Well in that case ... while I don't know what the limits would be for the Z28, but I'm pretty sure they'll be south of 1000 hp. And if you have to rebuild (or replace) the engine, swap the tranny, and so on ... why not save $10k up front and go with an SS?
I know no matter what I'm going to have to open the block up and change some lower end parts. . .

if I wanted an SS I wouldn't have bought a duramax when my k5 blew it's rear end, water pump, etc etc etc. I don't plan to run FI. but I'm one of those that wants to have the option. by the time the FI would come into play would be after I have hit every other limit on the car and built it up. but again who has the money to keep swapping parts out. I'm about starting out with the best base possible for future mods. even if I can't ever afford all that's possible. I feel I would be happy with the performance of a ZL1 for a weekend warrior but it's just not a z28. I'm in love with what the z28 stands for.

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Weight really isn't a key factor as some think it is. Many factory produced Road course cars do not lose weight but gain. Its all about making the weight work with you through the correct suspension setup and keeping that weight on the move. This is why we want the LS7. The LS7 is a higher reving motor then the LS3, and its those higher revs not so much the higher horse power that gets you out of the corners faster. No factory motor is made to maintain high revs with FI for an extended period of time. Also the 100lbs added over the nose for FI means more suspension improvements to counteract the tremendous push the car would have.
a higher rev limit means less shifts. which means more acceleration. it's still possible to get a smaller displacement motor to rev higher (ie DZ302, and for 4 bangers the 2.0 ecotec (FI high reving)). yes I'm talking about them R&Ding a new engine. . .which isn't cost effective for just the Z28. I know what I want and I know I'm more than likely not going to get it.

if the Z28 were to have said ls7 I would still end up buying one and would still end up finding the weakest link. I have a tendency to push a car to it's limits. I'm just not a fan of the thin walls on the ls7. But knowing lingenfelter has put FI on the thing and it seems stable I am not as concerned as I was back when the engine debuted.

If I could turn around and justify a 2 seater I would end up with a Z06. . .
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:05 PM   #717
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I could be wrong but wasn't the LS7 SEMA Camaro displayed two years ago a wet sump GMPP engine in a revised suspension chassis?? Where is this car now and was it ever tested?? I like everyone's idea of a NA LS7 Z28 Camaro with coil over suspension in a lightened chassis. How close was the SEMA LS7 car to this idea?
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:08 PM   #718
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I could be wrong but wasn't the LS7 SEMA Camaro displayed two years ago a wet sump GMPP engine in a revised suspension chassis?? Where is this car now and was it ever tested?? I like everyone's idea of a NA LS7 Z28 Camaro with coil over suspension in a lightened chassis. How close was the SEMA LS7 car to this idea?
I'm not even sure if that car was functional, it was put together as a showpiece for aftermarket parts. It wouldn't have been tested, GM doesn't like to push cars that haven't had millions of dollars worth of R&D poured into them.
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My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:16 PM   #719
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No coilovers and not lightened with a crate LS7 and a cam both from GMPP.
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:05 PM   #720
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Thanks guys, it would be nice to have seen what this car could do on the street and track instead of just looking pretty under the lights.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:36 AM   #721
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Pete,
From what you know, what would you do to enhance the ZL1 suspension as is? And what would you do if it did not have MR?

Thanks!
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:45 PM   #722
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Pete,
From what you know, what would you do to enhance the ZL1 suspension as is? And what would you do if it did not have MR?

Thanks!
Good question Chance....
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:07 PM   #723
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Pete,
From what you know, what would you do to enhance the ZL1 suspension as is? And what would you do if it did not have MR?

Thanks!
From "Pedder's" perspective, and/or from GM's perspective?
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:54 PM   #724
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From "Pedder's" perspective, and/or from GM's perspective?
OK, I'll bite...
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:03 PM   #725
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OK, I'll bite...
NO...I haven't had a tetanus shot!

I mean for Pete to answer...hopefully from BOTH perspectives...
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:16 PM   #726
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Pete,
From what you know, what would you do to enhance the ZL1 suspension as is? And what would you do if it did not have MR?

Thanks!
Here is my short list.

We will take a long hard look at the foundational components starting with the sub-frame and radius bushes working through all of them.

If the ZL1 does not have front caster adjustment, we'll add that.

The new rear bar is far more efficient and effective. We will have to evaluate it in world driving and determine what size rear bar we want to run.

Chevrolet R & D is putting a tremendous effort into the wheel and tire setup. It still looks like it will be staggered. As good as they are from the factory, I am almost certain we will use the square wheel and tire setup we know and love.

Brakes are almost good to go and they may be if Chevrolet chooses to come out the door with the two piece slotted Brembo front rotors. We'll upgrade brake fluid to my favorite Motul (it must be made from gold based on the price) and add Cobalt Friction XR1 and XR2 pads. They will be filthy and noisy, but they will be incredibly consistent.

We'll look at the engine and air flow to see where we can add an oil cooler and PS cooler.

A quick trip to my buddies at LPE will have us putting down 600 RWHP.

She'll need a hoop and cross bar so I can mount two five point harnesses.

We'll look at exhaust too. I really liked the sound of the cutouts on my LS3.

Exhaust is again something Chevrolet is spending a lot of time on. We may do shorty or long tubes for weight reduction. We may use the OE manifolds and have them coated to help control under hood temps. Then again, long tube, coated inside and out and wrapped may be the best route for heat control and weight reduction.

Since this one will be faster than the last, front brake ducts will be mandatory.

Mag Ride. This is a dagger to many GM suspension engineers so I apologize in advance. We will turn it off, and replace the mag ride dampers with Pedders Supercar Coilovers. I want the ride height I want based on the corner weighting scales and the damping I want. When I turn my ZL1 from race car to lawn mower it will be my fault, but I'll be smiling all the way. When I put my top test driver into the Pedders ZL1 it will have to be at least 5 seconds faster a lap. That is an eternity in raceway time. We'll do everything we need to do to make it so.

Finally we have to make it look like a Pedders car so there will be some black accents.
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:38 PM   #727
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NO...I haven't had a tetanus shot!

I mean for Pete to answer...hopefully from BOTH perspectives...
OK, I am now #3.1 or should that be #2.99 I am going with #2.99

If I were GM:

As is with MR or without, I would find a way to offer a square wheel and tire package that created equal width front and rear tracks.

If GM cannot find a way to use Pedders EP1201 HD sub-frame bushes I would develop a rubber bush with no voids and a larger top control surface area.

The hydraulic radius bush would be replaced with a full rubber bush, unless they use the Pedders EP6579 snubbers on the current part.

I would slot the caster hole and fix the bolt in place with a metal tab from max caster.

I would absolutely use the CTS-V two piece rotor up front.

I would take a long hard look at reducing under hood temps and perhaps coat both the inside and outside on the exhaust manifold for heat control.

Overall, GM has done a brilliant job with the ZL1. It will be a very very very good automobile.

I think these are doable from a production standpoint, but the real #3 will return and straighten me out. Allow me to bid you all adieu as I slip from my alter ego of #2.99 to Justice Pete.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:31 PM   #728
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Excellent reports. Thank you Pete. Don't tell anyone, but I'll take scenario 1.
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