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Old 08-28-2011, 03:34 PM   #919
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
It's nice to hear you have an inside "hook" Joe......GM knows how to make a profit, even if they sold widgets. In this case the ZL1 is the item they want to make profit on. Once it does, so then goes the Z28. It's a matter of when we get the Z28, not if.
I'll never claim my friends are 'hooks'. All just casual conversation about non-confidential stuff...but I appreciate the thought.

I believe the only three things holding back a Z28 (if it were being proposed) would be a justifiable business case, CAFE effect (big picture thoughts...), and development time. They don't need to wait for the ZL1 to make real money before they introduce a new model...just so long as the Z28 can make its own money...

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I believe there is little to no weight savings in dropping todays power windows and power locks. However power seats yes.
I think you're about right! Factor in the increased cost to switch over...and it becomes a difficult change to justify...
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:46 PM   #920
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1) Yesterday I decided to spend a day at a retail Pedders shop. We did a 5th Gen Track II. The alignment is unique to this 5th Gen. It has OE wheels and tires.

Front
Camber -1.6
Toe .50 OUT
Added a degree of Castor

Rear
Camber 0
Toe IN .05

The test drive was on public roadways so we did not explore the limits. The car is very well balanced.

2) I cannot imagine how thrilled a client would be to take delivery of a LS7 Z/28 from GM. If Pedders were to have a small role in a project like this I can't imagine how excited I would be to see the face of the very first Z/28 owner.
1) What wheels/tires, and sizes, Pete?

2) As you know, Pete, "so close, and yet so far..."

"Passion" for an LS7'd Z/28 is 'way beyond what that "wax-guy" talks about...
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:19 PM   #921
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
I'll never claim my friends are 'hooks'. All just casual conversation about non-confidential stuff...but I appreciate the thought.

I believe the only three things holding back a Z28 (if it were being proposed) would be a justifiable business case, CAFE effect (big picture thoughts...), and development time. They don't need to wait for the ZL1 to make real money before they introduce a new model...just so long as the Z28 can make its own money...

I think you're about right! Factor in the increased cost to switch over...and it becomes a difficult change to justify...
I know we want fuel efficent cars and all but this nanny state bull is pissing me



Ok back on subject.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:57 PM   #922
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I'll never claim my friends are 'hooks'. All just casual conversation about non-confidential stuff...but I appreciate the thought.
LOL....it was sarcasim.....no real thought given...
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I think you're about right! Factor in the increased cost to switch over...and it becomes a difficult change to justify...
That went without saying Joe...it's commonly understood that the packages coupled together as they are could not be changed or eliminated without major hassle and cost...merely a thought presented about the lengths I as an old guy who never had those things would go to if it could be done, and we all know it could not because of the hassle and cost..., a stretch of the imagination to make a point about jettisoning weight
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:29 PM   #923
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2.99 has a few thoughts on this.

Yes there would be costs to bring out a Z/28 5th Gen. There would also be sales to offset some or all of the cost. Ford doesn't really sell a variety of Mustangs. They sell a variety of motors in Mustangs.The GT500 is marketed at the top king of the hill Mustang while the Boss is dressed up with a handling package and marketed as a road course beast. Ford does this to increase units. Maybe they have to because the update in 2010 didn't catch fire. The roll out of the 5.0 on 11 didn't catch fire. It may be a matter of necessity.

Before the 2015 6th gen rolls out in 2014 or whenever it rolls out, the Z/28 could serve as a halo vehicle to drive sales of the 5th Gen in the last year or 18 months. If the sales of the 5th Gen continue to be strong and outpace the Mustang we may never see a Z/28.

Hey 2.99! This is Justice Pete. I have been exchanging emails and PMs with a couple of prospective GT500 vs SS Camaro buyers. They are doing a cost benefit of upgrades to the SS vs purchase costs of the GT500. Funny thing is they don't discuss warranty. They are looking at the design of the Camaro vs the performance of the GT500. The younger buyers are giving an edge to the Sync features. The ZL1 will certainly help Chevy win buyers in another year. I get very few PMs or emails comparing the BOSS L/S to the SS. I don't know if that is because the BOSS is viewed as the clear winner or Ford is selling very few BOSS L/S units. My guess is those that run the 5th Gen Program at Chevrolet already have the answers to these question.

This is Flounder. You guys talk too much. I just want my LS7 Z/28 and I want it NOW!
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Old 08-29-2011, 07:24 PM   #924
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Step away from the keyboard, the nice men in white coats are going to come and bring you to the peaceful place where everyone is all smiles and talk in nice, soothing tones Pete, err 2.99. err, umm flounder? Just stay put and stay away from anything pointy or boomy.
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Old 08-29-2011, 07:48 PM   #925
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Our Rebel Leader #2.99 has spoken,...so it has been written,..so it shall be done....
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:09 PM   #926
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Step away from the keyboard, the nice men in white coats are going to come and bring you to the peaceful place where everyone is all smiles and talk in nice, soothing tones Pete, err 2.99. err, umm flounder? Just stay put and stay away from anything pointy or boomy.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:02 AM   #927
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I'm with flounder. I vote flounder for CEO of GM.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:08 AM   #928
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Ok all this cost talk... How can GM spend the money on a CTS sedan, coupe & wagon (really a wagon?) and then on a CTSV sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?) and not build a Z28?
The Z28 is just bolt-ons. Lots of tooling between a sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?).
Your thoughts are required.

Thanks!
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:36 PM   #929
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My biggest surprize in the AutoWorld at the moment (considering escalating fuel prices but shrinking family sizes) is the relative lack of WAGONS! They were initially bludgeoned by the MiniVan rage of the mid/late-'80s, and finished off by CrossOvers. But tallroofed vehicles that weigh more than they need to/should in the real world get lousier gas mileage, and who moves around in a moving vehicle these days to look after Jr. and Missy's messes?! Bring back the WAGON! (I happen to be a LongRoof fan...)

Go to holden.com.au and have a look at the Commodore Wagon...sweet!

Rant over...where's my meds?!

CTS required gap-filling for Cadillac/GM. It had to compete with Volvo (wagons), MB (wagons), Audi (wagons), Lexus (well...), Beemer (um...) and everyone else in that vicinity. Including coupes. V6s and V8s were required. And, to counteract everyone else's (stretching a point, here, so don't flame) more efficient/purposeful OHC V8s, Caddy had to reach for the "blower-pill"..tada! CTS-V as we now know it. Smooth seamless power, docile enough for mom (and her wagon), hot enough for dear ol' dad to teach the youngin's some respect. Validate the Sedan, and the Coupe and Wagon follow...SAME basic structure/platform/chassis, call it what you may.

But the same amount of "engineering" and "validation" that went into creating the CTS-Vs on THEIR platform will need to be repeated for the ZL1 (different chassis) and, hopefully in parallel, the real-deal ZEE/28 (HD driveline/brakes/rolling stock/(hood?).

So, in some ways, the "verification" of the ZEE should be less onerou$ than the CTS-V program was, because some of the CTS-V componentry will carry over (almost intact) to the ZL1, which even more easily translates to "our" ZEE (same platform/chassis).
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:59 PM   #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Ok all this cost talk... How can GM spend the money on a CTS sedan, coupe & wagon (really a wagon?) and then on a CTSV sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?) and not build a Z28?
The Z28 is just bolt-ons. Lots of tooling between a sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?).
Your thoughts are required.

Thanks!
I'd rather have a CTW than a CTC

Anyway, it wasn't any work at all to make a -V out of the coupe & wagon once they had the sedan. Mechanically, all 3 are identical.
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Old 08-30-2011, 03:42 PM   #931
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Gotcha, but why the comments on it takes a lot to get a Z28 done? Again its just bolt-ons "compared" to the caddies quite different body work.

What I'm saying is in "comparison" the Z28 is a simple project (for an engineer).
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:21 PM   #932
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Wow (and that is NOT directed at you or anyone specifically).

Remember when the words "SOLID Business Case required" were expressed, some time back?

You would need to be privy to ALL aspects of what GM considers a "SOLID Business Case" to fully aswer this question. And, frankly, I'm not nearly qualified to be the spokesperson...

I can only surmise, based on certain "stuff" I HAVE been a part of in the distant (pre-BK) past...and that "data" may or may not be "inclusive" enough "today"...to approximate an answer. And those who could answer, can't/won't...publicly.

The clock ticks...daily...on the possibility of a Gen-5 Z/28. THAT much I DO know...

There's only so many production months of Gen-5 Camaros left in ANY iteration, so the quicker ALL the numbers get crunched and the data gets digested, the more possibility of such a welcomed version actually gracing a showroom floor in Anytown USA exists.

And, unfortunately, the reverse is true...

As I mentioned last week, let "the people" know...politely, with respect and humility...that YOU are ready to BUY this car at this (sorta) price...as soon as possible, and as soon as possible.

tick-tick-tick
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:48 PM   #933
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Gotcha, but why the comments on it takes a lot to get a Z28 done? Again its just bolt-ons "compared" to the caddies quite different body work.

What I'm saying is in "comparison" the Z28 is a simple project (for an engineer).
Nobody (to my knowledge) said it would be hard to do, perhaps hard to justify sure, but not hard to do (especially one along the lines of whats discussed in this thread).

Now, you could argue that its hard to justify a CTW & CTC and you'd be right. I think their main reason for existence was to give Cadillac some fresh product.
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:27 PM   #934
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The SS was the ultimate Camaro for two model years. Chevrolet is marketing the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro and it is for the moment. The question is, how long is the moment?
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:34 PM   #935
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The SS was the ultimate Camaro for two model years. Chevrolet is marketing the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro and it is for the moment. The question is, how long is the moment?
I have to respectfully disagree. The SS WAS the ultimate Camaro until the 5.0 came out. Now they are a dead heat. Come on Chevy, show us the fabled value!!
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