Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
River City Camaro Customs
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-29-2011, 01:14 PM   #86
Gramps69Z
Still waiting on the Z
 
Gramps69Z's Avatar
 
Drives: 69 Z/28, 06 Denali, 09 CTS
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Destin FL
Posts: 1,649
Send a message via AIM to Gramps69Z Send a message via Yahoo to Gramps69Z
Pete, thanks for your input.

I agree a modified LS3 is the way to go for a new Z/28.

What's your opinion of the 376/480 LS3?
__________________
3 months to go!
1969 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
2006 Denali
2009 Cadillac CTS


The Six Old Guys
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
The last thing we want is to ship something that isn't right.
Gramps69Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 01:15 PM   #87
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
But Pete, you end up with something more hard core than most folks want to live with on a frequent/daily basis. The GS and Carbon Vettes are still "live-able". The BOSS is "live-able". How much, and what's the RPO code, for the ear plugs?

Ask Number 3 what the total cost is (and TIME involved) to bring an "LS3+" to the RPO table. The LS7 (save wet sump, which is GM parts-specific) is READY.

This is to be a Z/28...not the SSX...which you're welcome to turn YOUR Z/28 into.
Pete don't get us wrong. We want a car that handles but as Lowdown stated we can't believe that GM would or should make a car that is not highly saleable. The alternative is to put in the more powerful and available LS7. This allows for a competitive Camaro performance and cost wise to the Boss. And of course we want the ZL1 brakes, drivetrain, etc. The simpler we keep this the faster to production and less expensive it will be.
2cnd chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 01:20 PM   #88
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by WYKOFF69Z View Post
Pete, thanks for your input.

I agree a modified LS3 is the way to go for a new Z/28.

What's your opinion of the 376/480 LS3?
Number 3 has stated the expense of the LS7 is in it's being low production. Why start on something new with less power that will also be built in low numbers? Makes no sense.
Instead use what exist and by adding to it's production it should lower the cost.
2cnd chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 01:27 PM   #89
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
So the distinction between the ZL1 and the Z28 would be LS7 and Pedders fixed height Supercar coilovers?

Btw, I'll tweak my ZL1 the day I get it.
Yes and none of the extra fluff standard, but available. A true drivers car with no forced induction. Simply the difference between a GT500 and a Boss, but in Camaro form.

ZL1 = GT500
Z28 = Boss
OK not really equal, better.
2cnd chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 01:32 PM   #90
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post

In my mind, a Z28 is a handling car with a lot of horsepower. What I am getting from this thread is that a Z28 is a lot of horsepower that handles?
For me its a handling car with some extra power....

Im not hung up on the weight... I just want it to handle like its on rails!

Hell the boss is heavier than the GT coupe so what makes us think the Camaro isn't going to be the same way

Last edited by ShnOmac; 05-29-2011 at 01:47 PM.
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 02:03 PM   #91
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,145
"What is 'right' as a Z/28", should be the question.

Whether we like it or not, the BOSS is the benchmark.

Take a 1SS...cloth (standard-grippier seats)...lightest that exists. Deletes will save a few pounds, but sadly will ADD COST. Minimized sound deadener. Seam sealer plays well north of the Mason-Dixon. Thin glass? Not really. Can the console be deleted, and the necessary hardware re-routed? What about an RPO for Rear Seat/Belts/Bags Delete as a separate option?

ZL1 Forged Wheels/Tires (or perhaps a Z/28-specific tire like the new Michelin Pilot Super Sports?)

ZL1 Brakes/ABS/StabiliTrak/TC

Revised Springs/Bars/Bushings...as required (Pete, do you need a PO?)

Wet-sump LS7 with ZL1 Tremec

ZL1 Splitter/Spoiler Pkg. ONLY

Z/28-specific Headrests/Mats ONLY

Z/28-specific Badges/Graphics (graphics deleteable @ n/c)

Z/28 Rear 1/4 Vents ala "Leno" - non-functional, but "someone" will have a kit...

NO "trick" hood/ground effects/geegaws...

ZL1 HD Driveline pieces (diff/axles etc.)

In this raging debate over LS7 vs. enhanced LS3, two distinct advantages exist:

1) The LS7 is a "done deal"...good-to-go, as they say

2) If you build a 500hp LS3+, it will NEVER have the TORQUE of the LS7. Pete, is more torque a good thing on a track, especially for corner exit? On the street? Is there anywhere that extra torque is a bad thing, icy roads excepted?
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 02:16 PM   #92
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,145
Two additional GM beancounter benefits:

1) Utilizing ZL1 components brings their unit co$t down...cheaper for the Zee, more profit for the BIG Zee

2) Same applies to the "outrageous" co$t of the LS7...more built = lower unit cost

The more commonality between 1SS AND ZL1 AND Z/28, the quicker the lil Zee will happen, at reduced cost, and at reduced "burden". And at INCREASED PROFITS for GM. After all, more units, sooner = more profits...

Based on the Chicago Announcement timeline of about 9 months to showrrom floor, using pre-developed ZL1 components potentially shaves time AND cost. But I like the NAIAS Annoucement timeline...with Spring'12 deliveries...
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 02:42 PM   #93
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
I'm lowdown with that!
2cnd chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 07:39 PM   #94
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
"What is 'right' as a Z/28", should be the question.

Whether we like it or not, the BOSS is the benchmark.

Take a 1SS...cloth (standard-grippier seats)...lightest that exists. Deletes will save a few pounds, but sadly will ADD COST. Minimized sound deadener. Seam sealer plays well north of the Mason-Dixon. Thin glass? Not really. Can the console be deleted, and the necessary hardware re-routed? What about an RPO for Rear Seat/Belts/Bags Delete as a separate option?

ZL1 Forged Wheels/Tires (or perhaps a Z/28-specific tire like the new Michelin Pilot Super Sports?)

ZL1 Brakes/ABS/StabiliTrak/TC

Revised Springs/Bars/Bushings...as required (Pete, do you need a PO?)

Wet-sump LS7 with ZL1 Tremec

ZL1 Splitter/Spoiler Pkg. ONLY

Z/28-specific Headrests/Mats ONLY

Z/28-specific Badges/Graphics (graphics deleteable @ n/c)

Z/28 Rear 1/4 Vents ala "Leno" - non-functional, but "someone" will have a kit...

NO "trick" hood/ground effects/geegaws...

ZL1 HD Driveline pieces (diff/axles etc.)

In this raging debate over LS7 vs. enhanced LS3, two distinct advantages exist:

1) The LS7 is a "done deal"...good-to-go, as they say

2) If you build a 500hp LS3+, it will NEVER have the TORQUE of the LS7. Pete, is more torque a good thing on a track, especially for corner exit? On the street? Is there anywhere that extra torque is a bad thing, icy roads excepted?
Torque is acceleration on the street or track so more is almost always better. There is a point of diminishing returns in the sense if you can't put it down you don't need it. Gearing makes a ridiculous difference, but the penalty is fuel economy.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 08:36 PM   #95
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
^hence the need for overdrive.
2cnd chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:30 AM   #96
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
^hence the need for overdrive.
OK by me.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 01:26 PM   #97
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
. There is a point of diminishing returns in the sense if you can't put it down you don't need it
I was actually just thinking about this while dreaming about the future Z/28. Any guesses on when the "point of diminishing returns" starts to come into play on our Camaro? Lets say we are running 305's on all four corners and of course its fully pedderised.....
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 02:02 PM   #98
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,145
Update:

I came across this previous post from Number 3, which certainly has merit...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=131653&page=3 Post #54

...which reinforces my contention that "deleting" and "substitution" on a significant scale will co$t a TON...but not come close to SAVING a "ton".

"Race car prepping", although changing the basic dynamics through a lowered cg and lowered Curb Weight, will make the car unliveable, on a regular/daily basis, for most of those seriously interested in such a "hard core handler", while literally exposing the car to a shortened life in climates other than the desert SouthWest...

Maybe GM PP needs to offer an "SSX Package"...racer-friendly...and then, to quote Darrell Waltrip and NASCAR, "Have at 'er, boyz!"

1) Let's be careful with features/options to minimize CW, while watching the cost/benefit closely;

2) To get to or under 8.0 lbs/hp (BOSS territory), again while watching the cost/benefit factors, simply requires an LS7 with wet-sump.

A 450hp enhanced LS3, in a 3700lb chassis = 8.22 lb/hp, is heavier than the BOSS, with a greater overall Mass, and greater Frontal Area. Too close to call, how this comparo might turn out.

3850lb/500hp = 7.7...with faaarrr more torque than the BOSS...or any n/a LS3. I think this one wins...everytime!
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 02:12 PM   #99
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
Also we know some R&D was done on putting the LS7 in the Camaro. Just what was done to the red LS7 Camaro? Anyone remember?
2cnd chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 06:52 PM   #100
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 23,079
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Also we know some R&D was done on putting the LS7 in the Camaro. Just what was done to the red LS7 Camaro? Anyone remember?
Show cars don't mean any R&D has been done. All it means for sure is that stuck an LS7 into a Camaro engine bay, not the most difficult of tasks. It might not have even ran.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 07:22 PM   #101
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
^ how do we find out? Hey Number 3?
2cnd chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 09:35 PM   #102
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Z06?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
Here's the encouraging news. The Camaro's current Chief Engineer does have a better understanding of the car than perhaps his predecessor had. It's no accident that the Camaro GT500 competitor got a last minute name change to ZL1.

The target for a REAL Z/28 is the Boss - and that's a good thing. Camaro's current architecture does have it's limitations but at least the right focus is finally there.

Let' see what they come up with!
Would like to know if there is any more info on this???
2cnd chance is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
700 hp z/28 in 2014, the greatest camaro

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BREAKING: 2012 CAMARO ZL1 - 6.2L LSA Supercharged - 6MT Revealed! Tran Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 756 05-01-2013 07:22 AM
Transcript of Camaro ZL1 Q&A Webchat with Chevrolet Tran Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 38 02-17-2012 01:45 AM
Installation Camaro Needed for Manual for a Justice Install Package in SF Bay Area Info@PeddersUSA.com USA - California 6 04-30-2010 09:02 PM
The DEFINITIVE EXPLANATION OF CAMARO SUSPENSION, ISSUES, AND UPGRADES Info@PeddersUSA.com Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 106 10-19-2009 07:08 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.