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Old 09-19-2011, 09:44 AM   #1079
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Over the weekend I was thinking about something. The premise of this thread is that a LS7 Z/28 would be close in performance to a ZL1, be more road course friendly in a traditional sense and cost more than a SS but less than a ZL1. How would you feel if the Z/28 that had superior performance to a ZL1 in every measurable way, a Z/28 that could roast a Z06, do it on any type of track, do it all day long, had most everything you wanted including weight reduction, but cost more than a ZL1?
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:49 AM   #1080
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Over the weekend I was thinking about something. The premise of this thread is that a LS7 Z/28 would be close in performance to a ZL1, be more road course friendly in a traditional sense and cost more than a SS but less than a ZL1. How would you feel if the Z/28 that had superior performance to a ZL1 in every measurable way, a Z/28 that could roast a Z06, do it on any type of track, do it all day long, had most everything you wanted including weight reduction, but cost more than a ZL1?
While, if I had the money, I'd pay more for Z28 than a Z06 if it were superior in every way. Even if I had the money, I might not pass on ZL1 (because that happens to fit what I'm looking for moreso now), but being the CAMARO-nut that I am, it wouldn't even be a question for me. I'm not sure how successful Z28 would be at that price, but I fully support the idea and that those who do have the means would have that choice.

All I care about is that CAMARO is the best it can possibly be and continue it's success. Whether I can afford it or not is of no consequence, however, it should still be attainable by the common man, like almost all CAMAROs of the past. To stray from that would be a big disappointment. While the Z28 you suggest would probably do that, I can make the exception, because I want the Pony from Dearborn to be beat that bad.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:06 AM   #1081
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Pete,
Not for me. If money was not an object I'd buy a Z06 now in all black. I'm looking for the Z28 as has been described. I really want the LS7 in it, it just feels right for the Z28 ideology. I'll light weight it myself.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:14 AM   #1082
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Pete,
Not for me. If money was not an object I'd buy a Z06 now in all black. I'm looking for the Z28 as has been described. I really want the LS7 in it, it just feels right for the Z28 ideology. I'll light weight it myself.
I understand. As the devil's advocate this Monday morning...

What if the Z/28 slotted closer to the ZR1 by every measure?
What if it handled as well as your AC Miata?

OK, the Miata is a stretch
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:24 AM   #1083
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Over the weekend I was thinking about something. The premise of this thread is that a LS7 Z/28 would be close in performance to a ZL1, be more road course friendly in a traditional sense and cost more than a SS but less than a ZL1. How would you feel if the Z/28 that had superior performance to a ZL1 in every measurable way, a Z/28 that could roast a Z06, do it on any type of track, do it all day long, had most everything you wanted including weight reduction, but cost more than a ZL1?
I can't speak for the Z/28 over ZL1 thing.. But, I would love to have that on my SS.. I have the power now.. I just need the handling and ability to put it all to the ground.. my 11.973 was babying out of the hole.. throw in some nice weight reduction and I'd be very happy with it.

I had a 98 Steeda GT with the full G-Trac set up on it.. Man, that thing would take turns like it was on rail.. It couldn't do straight line for crap due to that 4.6 and the 4R70W slushbox, but man could that thing handle..
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:58 AM   #1084
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I can't speak for the Z/28 over ZL1 thing.. But, I would love to have that on my SS.. I have the power now.. I just need the handling and ability to put it all to the ground.. my 11.973 was babying out of the hole.. throw in some nice weight reduction and I'd be very happy with it.

I had a 98 Steeda GT with the full G-Trac set up on it.. Man, that thing would take turns like it was on rail.. It couldn't do straight line for crap due to that 4.6 and the 4R70W slushbox, but man could that thing handle..
I can help you with that
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:04 AM   #1085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Over the weekend I was thinking about something. The premise of this thread is that a LS7 Z/28 would be close in performance to a ZL1, be more road course friendly in a traditional sense and cost more than a SS but less than a ZL1. How would you feel if the Z/28 that had superior performance to a ZL1 in every measurable way, a Z/28 that could roast a Z06, do it on any type of track, do it all day long, had most everything you wanted including weight reduction, but cost more than a ZL1?
Pete for that kind of money I would just update the CTS to that other Caddy.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:10 AM   #1086
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I can help you with that
I've read, re-read, thought about, read yet again, etc. that "book" on the site... Even after all that, I'm still taking it all in and planning on things.. Trying to decide what it is I want to do with the car..

This is a DD for me.. Not a dyno queen, not a track only car, etc.. I need more traction in the straight line and in the twisties, but I don't want to push so far to one that I start messing with the other.. I know I need wheels/tires and more susp set up since the only thing I have now is PFADT solid subs and their trailing arms..

Now that I see that Camaro Fest 3 is going to be in Indy.. I really have to get on the ball about beefing up the set up..
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:30 AM   #1087
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I've read, re-read, thought about, read yet again, etc. that "book" on the site... Even after all that, I'm still taking it all in and planning on things.. Trying to decide what it is I want to do with the car..

This is a DD for me.. Not a dyno queen, not a track only car, etc.. I need more traction in the straight line and in the twisties, but I don't want to push so far to one that I start messing with the other.. I know I need wheels/tires and more susp set up since the only thing I have now is PFADT solid subs and their trailing arms..

Now that I see that Camaro Fest 3 is going to be in Indy.. I really have to get on the ball about beefing up the set up..
We can do both. When you have time, give me a call to discuss your strategy.

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Old 09-19-2011, 12:22 PM   #1088
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Randy, if I sell my car.....I'll make you a sweet deal on the suspension stuff I've got on mine.
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:48 PM   #1089
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Pete, there are only a few ways I can see another Camaro beating a ZL1 "in every measurable way":

1) Subtituting the LSA with the LS-NINE which, in and of itself, would demand a higher tag...but would contravene the "ZL1 being the mightiest Camaro EVER!" hoopla credited with the "return" of the ZL1 moniker.

2) A serious diet on a ZL1 chassis, with an LS7 as motor-vation and weight-savings initiater.

3) A diet on the soon-to-be LSA'd version. Kinda "ZL1 meets SSX"... Anytime you lose weight, you increase performance. How much performance did you think you need? And how heavy is your money belt?! We'll help you lighten that, too!

As exciting as a Z06-version Camaro would be (which is essentially what we seek, here), to copy the exact Z06 recipe with serious weight reduction and LS7 engine, I think, will seriously dilute the take-rate when all the co$t$ are factored in...and likely add serious development time and dollar$.

In the hierarchy of "Camaro-dom", the Z/28 has rarely been the biggest-ticket version...but HAS been, generally, "Best Bang for the BUCK!" for those thinking in terms of corners instead of straight-lines. Against SS/IROC/SS again, a price advantage for the Z/28 cum Z28 was present...and a weight advantage, by way of SBC vs. BBC (Gen-1/early Gen-2), and then no cladding/doodads vs. festooned with stuff (Gen-3 and -4). 1LE, remember?

IF (caps) such a beast as you describe was made available, methinks a name other than "Z/28" might be required...

For me, at least, a mid-$40s track star, preferably LS7'd, that humbles the BOSS LS is what I would be very happy with, thank you very much!

EDIT:

Of course, the above ramblings are with regard to a GM-built/backed version...

Now, if we're going outside the normal GM-built supply chain, and venturing into the realm of Aftermarket "tuner versions", things can get very interesting...very quickly...but, also, very expensively, relative to OEM substitution of "upgraded componentry". Paying "full pin" for an LS7 upgrade, for instance, over an SS-LS3, bloats the price point. A "tuned" LS3, in some n/a manner, becomes much more viable...and the OEM's mandatory requirements of certification/validation/crashability are not generally required. Potential liability issues, from light-weight engineering AND alternative/non-OEM running gear built into the final product, ARE something not exactly inconsequential for the Aftermarket to factor into final pricing. If Little Jonny or Janie piles up their re-engineered SuperMaro, and it's added-on/substituted components in any way contribute to nasty after-effects, OHOH!!

And...if it's an Aftermarket version, it WILL be named other than "Z/28"...

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 09-19-2011 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:24 PM   #1090
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Quote:
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Pete, there are only a few ways I can see another Camaro beating a ZL1 "in every measurable way":

1) Subtituting the LSA with the LS-NINE which, in and of itself, would demand a higher tag...but would contravene the "ZL1 being the mightiest Camaro EVER!" hoopla credited with the "return" of the ZL1 moniker.

2) A serious diet on a ZL1 chassis, with an LS7 as motor-vation and weight-savings initiater.

3) A diet on the soon-to-be LSA'd version. Kinda "ZL1 meets SSX"... Anytime you lose weight, you increase performance. How much performance did you think you need? And how heavy is your money belt?! We'll help you lighten that, too!

As exciting as a Z06-version Camaro would be (which is essentially what we seek, here), to copy the exact Z06 recipe with serious weight reduction and LS7 engine, I think, will seriously dilute the take-rate when all the co$t$ are factored in...and likely add serious development time and dollar$.

In the hierarchy of "Camaro-dom", the Z/28 has rarely been the biggest-ticket version...but HAS been, generally, "Best Bang for the BUCK!" for those thinking in terms of corners instead of straight-lines. Against SS/IROC/SS again, a price advantage for the Z/28 cum Z28 was present...and a weight advantage, by way of SBC vs. BBC (Gen-1/early Gen-2), and then no cladding/doodads vs. festooned with stuff (Gen-3 and -4). 1LE, remember?

IF (caps) such a beast as you describe was made available, methinks a name other than "Z/28" might be required...

For me, at least, a mid-$40s track star, preferably LS7'd, that humbles the BOSS LS is what I would be very happy with, thank you very much!


Very well said as always.

If I'm paying BIG $$$$$ for a car it's going to have the letter V in it somewhere....

Vanna is there a Z?
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:32 PM   #1091
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In the new pics in the ZL1 section under the Track Version ZL1 look close and it appears there is a naca duct inlet in front of the rear wheel well covered by the black mesh. Add that to the missing aero peices and fake looking hood hoodpinned to an obvious real hood underneath... Guys I'm feelin' Z28.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:13 PM   #1092
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I understand. As the devil's advocate this Monday morning...

What if the Z/28 slotted closer to the ZR1 by every measure?
What if it handled as well as your AC Miata?

OK, the Miata is a stretch
The argument against calling the ZL1 a Z28 was that the "Z28" was a track-focused car...ultra-high power was not an ingredient. And apparently GM agreed in principle. So how is amplifying that established "bad formula" to a new extreme....a Z28?
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