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Old 09-20-2011, 12:55 PM   #1107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
If what I'm reading here in the last few posts about a Camaro Z28 ripping up a Z06...it better have a dry sump system on it as it will meet or exceed the Gs that Z06 is pulling. I highly doubt the ZL1 will come anywhere near the lateral Gs that will require a dry sump.
Perhaps I am being included into that argument by your interpretation of what I wrote. Thats not the case, and I wasn't making any commentary about that discussion you guys were having in regards to a Corvette. I asked more of a "why can't we do this" open ended question, and did not base it upon any one comparison or example of performance to one vehicle or another. Carry on.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:20 PM   #1108
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As we've discussed at length, here, power-to-weight is the key ingredient for quick-'n-nimble vehicles. Let's take a look at some numbers:

ZL1 - 4100 Curb (lightly optioned [pun not intended]?) with 580/556 = 7.07/7.37

Z06 - 3132 Curb (1SA) with 505/470 = 6.20/6.66

SuperZEE - 3849 (1SS) minus 300 (and still streetable?) with 570/575 = 6.23/6.17 (LPE @ $19,995*)

SuperZEE - 3849 (1SS) minus 300 (and still streetable?) with 600/575 = 5.92/6.17 (Katech @ $12,350*)

* Assumes LT headers/exhaust in place; engine oil cooler extra. No claims of emissions compliance.

SuperZEE, as a "runner", is now at/past mid-$40s as a 1SS with near/now 600 hp, n/a. Weight reduction, wheels/tires, suspension, brakes, HD driveline upgrades are extra. At aftermarket-prepped/installed prices, add $15-20K.

Can it be done? Of course.

Raise your hand... "Operators are standing by..."
.................................................. .................................................. .......................

With regard to wet-sump vs. dry, and all manner of hardcore track-related goodies, I think from a GM perspective we need to initially concentrate on gettin' the car built and into showrooms... LS7, non-MR, HD driveline/brakes/wheels 'n tires. From there, Option Code TC1, either Oshawa-installed (?!) or GMPP-supplied and dealer/owner-installed (more likely), would be a worthy consideration: Engine/diff coolers, MR (possible RPO), dry-sump "upgrade" (possible RPO ala Vette GS/6-speed), front seats, "camera bar" etc. Ala carte, or complete.

'Course, if this is a tuner-only iteration, the sky's the limit as to features/options. Again, "can we help you lighten that moneybelt?!"

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 09-20-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:38 PM   #1109
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With deference to Pete and his practical experience, the Pedders Camaro is wet-sumped...with max g-load approaching 1.4. Is that accurate, Pete?

"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!"

Untouchable, indeed!

Damn good name for the car...
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:55 PM   #1110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
Perhaps I am being included into that argument by your interpretation of what I wrote. Thats not the case, and I wasn't making any commentary about that discussion you guys were having in regards to a Corvette. I asked more of a "why can't we do this" open ended question, and did not base it upon any one comparison or example of performance to one vehicle or another. Carry on.
I didn't mean to come across like that, if I did I apologize for that. It's all good

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Now back to the Z/28 Dream Car. The benchmark is not a Z06. The Pedders Camaro with a ProCharger has already been there and done that. My DREAM Z/28 walks a Z06. My DREAM Z/28 does sweat a Mustang in any configuration. My DREAM Z/28 is Chicago style.
They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!

No blower weight up front. No F/I heat soak. Better brakes. A differential that puts power down regardless of G load. Lighter weight wheels. Square wheel and tire setup. Creative lightening. Hoop with removable bar for two well installed 5 point harnesses. Brake ducts. N/A 600 RWHP. Better clutch. Separate hydraulic fluid reservoirs. Heat extraction. Thermal management.
Pete, this Chicago Croation LOVES this...MAKE IT SO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
As we've discussed at length, here, power-to-weight is the key ingredient for quick-'n-nimble vehicles. Let's take a look at some numbers:

ZL1 - 4100 Curb (lightly optioned [pun not intended]?) with 580/556 = 7.07/7.37

Z06 - 3132 Curb (1SA) with 505/470 = 6.20/6.66

SuperZEE - 3849 (1SS) minus 300 (and still streetable?) with 570/575 = 6.23/6.17 (LPE @ $19,995*)

SuperZEE - 3849 (1SS) minus 300 (and still streetable?) with 600/575 = 5.92/6.17 (Katech @ $12,350*)

* Assumes LT headers/exhaust in place; engine oil cooler extra. No claims of emissions compliance.

SuperZEE, as a "runner", is now at/past mid-$40s as a 1SS with near/now 600 hp, n/a. Weight reduction, wheels/tires, suspension, brakes, HD driveline upgrades are extra. At aftermarket-prepped/installed prices, add $15-20K.

Can it be done? Of course.

Raise your hand... "Operators are standing by..."
.................................................. .................................................. .......................

With regard to wet-sump vs. dry, and all manner of hardcore track-related goodies, I think from a GM perspective we need to initially concentrate on gettin' the car built and into showrooms... LS7, non-MR, HD driveline/brakes/wheels 'n tires. From there, Option Code TC1, either Oshawa-installed (?!) or GMPP-supplied and dealer/owner-installed (more likely), would be a worthy consideration: Engine/diff coolers, MR (possible RPO), dry-sump "upgrade" (possible RPO ala Vette GS/6-speed), front seats, "camera bar" etc. Ala carte, or complete.

'Course, if this is a tuner-only iteration, the sky's the limit as to features/options. Again, "can we help you lighten that moneybelt?!"
Where do I sign?
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:02 PM   #1111
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Call 1-800-SUPERZEE...operators are standing by...

Or better yet, pm Pete...he could actually make that one happen NOW!

Gotta Black AMEX? Have that handy...
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:10 PM   #1112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Allow me to remind everyone, the Pedders Camaro and Mustang already run faster than a Z06. They out run a CTS-V race car running slicks compared to the Pedders street cars on street tires. We have the Challenger, Mustang and Camaro all pulling sustained 1.3 G turns with peaks into the 1.4 range.

With the vehicles we have tested I can say with confidence that the Mustang and Camaro are so close on road course it is hard to pick a winner, to pick a best vehicle. At the risk of repeating myself, the Mustang is a great track car. On the edge, it doesn't talk to you. On the edge the Mustang screams at you. On the edge, the IRS in the Camaro whispers gently in your ear. Both are fast. Both are different. The weight savings helps and hurts the Mustang. The three link rear suspension feels wobbly. It goes, but is not secure. The Camaro IRS weight hurts and helps. It inspires confidence. A good driver will be very fast in a 5th Gen.

Now back to the Z/28 Dream Car. The benchmark is not a Z06. The Pedders Camaro with a ProCharger has already been there and done that. My DREAM Z/28 walks a Z06. My DREAM Z/28 does sweat a Mustang in any configuration. My DREAM Z/28 is Chicago style.

They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!

No blower weight up front. No F/I heat soak. Better brakes. A differential that puts power down regardless of G load. Lighter weight wheels. Square wheel and tire setup. Creative lightening. Hoop with removable bar for two well installed 5 point harnesses. Brake ducts. N/A 600 RWHP. Better clutch. Separate hydraulic fluid reservoirs. Heat extraction. Thermal management.

My DREAM Z/28 has everything the first Pedders Supercar had, but more across the board. No more fly swatter. My Z/28 would be a Muscle Car Phalanx capable of destroying most anything that gets in the way. Yes I know the Camaro is a relatively large and heavy car for this assignment, but if it were the size of a Vette it wouldn't be a challenge.
Pete,
First I must say this sounds like something under development??? Too cool!
Second I'm impressed with the stats from your Camaro!
Third I'm originally from Chicago!!!
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:24 PM   #1113
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Chicago Chicago that todlin' town
Chicago Chicago I'll show you around

;-)
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:44 PM   #1114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
I didn't mean to come across like that, if I did I apologize for that. It's all good
We are in Z land here, it's always all good !



Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
Pete, this Chicago Croation LOVES this...MAKE IT SO!

Where do I sign?
...that's the $50,000 question...where's the dotted line...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Call 1-800-SUPERZEE...operators are standing by...

Or better yet, pm Pete...he could actually make that one happen NOW!

Gotta Black AMEX? Have that handy...
...and if we call within the next ten minutes Lowdown, tell us what we also get.....
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:44 PM   #1115
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I can help you with that
and I can vouch for this...

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Old 09-20-2011, 04:55 PM   #1116
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
...and if we call within the next ten minutes Lowdown, tell us what we also get.....
A lovely parting gift, if your AMEX comes up snake-eyes...

Operators ARE standing by...

X................ marks the spot...
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:07 PM   #1117
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Hey Number 3 we miss your insight!
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:12 PM   #1118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Allow me to remind everyone, the Pedders Camaro and Mustang already run faster than a Z06. They out run a CTS-V race car running slicks compared to the Pedders street cars on street tires. We have the Challenger, Mustang and Camaro all pulling sustained 1.3 G turns with peaks into the 1.4 range.

With the vehicles we have tested I can say with confidence that the Mustang and Camaro are so close on road course it is hard to pick a winner, to pick a best vehicle. At the risk of repeating myself, the Mustang is a great track car. On the edge, it doesn't talk to you. On the edge the Mustang screams at you. On the edge, the IRS in the Camaro whispers gently in your ear. Both are fast. Both are different. The weight savings helps and hurts the Mustang. The three link rear suspension feels wobbly. It goes, but is not secure. The Camaro IRS weight hurts and helps. It inspires confidence. A good driver will be very fast in a 5th Gen.
A guy with real experience...and minimal bias is priceless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Now back to the Z/28 Dream Car. The benchmark is not a Z06. The Pedders Camaro with a ProCharger has already been there and done that. My DREAM Z/28 walks a Z06. My DREAM Z/28 does sweat a Mustang in any configuration. My DREAM Z/28 is Chicago style.

They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!

No blower weight up front. No F/I heat soak. Better brakes. A differential that puts power down regardless of G load. Lighter weight wheels. Square wheel and tire setup. Creative lightening. Hoop with removable bar for two well installed 5 point harnesses. Brake ducts. N/A 600 RWHP. Better clutch. Separate hydraulic fluid reservoirs. Heat extraction. Thermal management.

My DREAM Z/28 has everything the first Pedders Supercar had, but more across the board. No more fly swatter. My Z/28 would be a Muscle Car Phalanx capable of destroying most anything that gets in the way. Yes I know the Camaro is a relatively large and heavy car for this assignment, but if it were the size of a Vette it wouldn't be a challenge.
I'd LOVE to drool over such a beast....but there's no way I'd ever be able to afford (or use) something like that! Call it.......I dunno.....the P28 or something...but not Z28....imvhaso (in my very humble and scared opinion)

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Old 09-20-2011, 06:17 PM   #1119
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
A lovely parting gift, if your AMEX comes up snake-eyes...

Operators ARE standing by...

X................ marks the spot...
LOL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Hey Number 3 we miss your insight!
Indeed. There's no substitute to that corporate feedback (albeit personal opinion but of course ) to our thoughts and ideas...I for one certainly miss that, it was inside and close,...
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:20 PM   #1120
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I dunno how corporate Number 3 ever is in his opinions and feedback....though - as far as authors of circle-talk and devil's advocacy, I don't think I've ever met someone better.
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