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Old 11-17-2011, 05:39 PM   #1429
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Sure, its stronger. But if you're not going to approach the limits of the LS7, the added strength of the LSX block doesn't really matter, does it? Meanwhile, for a car that is being build to handle well the extra weight is a hindrance. For you, sure the LSX is superior. But for someone like me who would either keep the engine stock, or at most go with a somewhat mild N/A build, the all aluminum LS7 is a better choice.

And for the record ... the LS7 is also based on the C5R engine
At the end of the day I guess it all depends on what you want and what your willing to settle with. My setup will be pretty mild too on an LSX platform so not concerned about the extra weight. And, considering the SS is as heavy as it is already I'm sure it'll do just fine. Lot's of guys have the LSX, and all kinds of other stuff in this car (roll bars, meth. kits, nitrous kits, truck trannys, etc..., etc..., etc.... huge diffs., larger rims / wheels.

For some reason I thought the LS7 was inspired by the LS1-R. LS1-R-> LS7 -> C5-R -> LSX. I could be wrong though.

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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Mike,

I think the L/28 should gio back on the dyno. Now that everything has been run in a bit I'll bet dollars to donuts it is a clean 600 to the rear wheels.
You have the ZL1's beat already.

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BTW, if I just plain HAVE to put stupid-ridiculous power 'tween my front tires on my Jenny Craig-graduating, 'Ring-conquerring ZEE, I'd likely find myself pesterin' these folks for a block...

http://www.worldcastings.com/products/warhawk-ls-aluminum-block-.html

You could have Steve Lambert massage one o' these for me, couldn't ya, Mike?!
I did see this block it's quite impressive. One thing that caught my eye was the following statement:

"Please note that the cast iron GM LSX block and the World Products WARHAWK block do not have identical locations for the extra head bolts, however, standard 4-bolt GM LS heads will fit."

Specifically, because I'm going with boost it was important for me to have LSX-LS(n) style heads to ensure as much strength as possible; The LSX block and LSX style heads have 6-bolts per./cylinder. So, aside from power alone, in my mind "strength" is a key factor in high powered setups.

Last edited by calbert1999; 11-17-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:55 AM   #1430
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I can't wait for more footage of this beast turning laps at the track!
I think we'll have more L/28 video along with some very interesting tracks

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You have the ZL1's beat already.
We set the bar a bit higher.















Bit my axx. We set the bar so high if I told you wouldn't believe me.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:19 AM   #1431
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Pete, burning the midnight oil?
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:08 PM   #1432
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Pete, burning the midnight oil?
I was at Cory Henderson's shop late afternoon. That gave me some windshield time to think which is always dangerous. My list of what ifs got longer with each mile. I had to take some time and revise my notes
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:17 PM   #1433
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I think we'll have more L/28 video along with some very interesting tracks


Any hints about the tracks?
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:51 PM   #1434
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I think we'll have more L/28 video along with some very interesting tracks



We set the bar a bit higher.















Bit my axx. We set the bar so high if I told you wouldn't believe me.
At least someone does.

Did you hear about the announcement from Ford? Right after GM announced pricing on the ZL1, Ford announced a 650hp. Mustang GT500 for 2013.

Chase said; Someoen pissed in GM's Cherios that morning. LOL
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:33 PM   #1435
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At least someone does.

Did you hear about the announcement from Ford? Right after GM announced pricing on the ZL1, Ford announced a 650hp. Mustang GT500 for 2013.

Chase said; Someoen pissed in GM's Cherios that morning. LOL
GM is selling cars in the Camaro. Ford is selling engines in the Mustang. This is not to say one is right and the other wrong. It is just what I see.

As for the 2013 GT500 / 650 vs. THE L/28 we welcome them all, contenders or pretenders
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:02 PM   #1436
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GM is selling cars in the Camaro. Ford is selling engines in the Mustang. This is not to say one is right and the other wrong. It is just what I see.

As for the 2013 GT500 / 650 vs. THE L/28 we welcome them all, contenders or pretenders
I like many different cars regardless if they're GM, Fords or Chyrslers so I don't really think one is that much better than the other except when measuring the power and price, and I'm not impressed with fancy traction control gimmicks as I prefer to challenge my driving skills without computers, then can use the computers to give that extra edge.

My position is; Realistically, these cars aren't true muscle because of the number of issues when you drive them the way they're supposed to be driven, they're just daily drivers with powerful engines and cool sporty looks. Back in the day the excuse was limited technology at the time. Nowadays, the only excuse is profit margins.

So, both vehicles need tons of upgrades anyways so the only true measure of value is how much HP / TQ you get. Just my .02 cents.

That's why I like the type of stuff you guys are doing, other vendors and the members on C5 (in relationship to mods and the aftermarket products). I learn, implement and end up with something much better than what will be offered stock regardless if it's a base Mustang, GT500, SS or ZL1.

Can't wait to see a ZL1 up against other vendor offerings.

The shop I use has the entire Pedders product line on their shop car (with some other stuff), and I don't think there are too many vehicle out there that can take this vehicle on the track including the ZL1. So, it's obvious vendors like Pedders, and shops like LPE, et al. are filling the gaps.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:45 PM   #1437
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OK OK OK, GM should offer a 1LE with the option of MR or as LOWDOWN says enhanced FE4, or a dealer installed Pedders suspension. Also a (1LE + LS7) Z28 with the option of MR or as LOWDOWN says enhanced FE4, or a dealer installed Pedders suspension. Simple!
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:03 PM   #1438
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OK OK OK, GM should offer a 1LE with the option of MR or as LOWDOWN says enhanced FE4, or a dealer installed Pedders suspension. Also a (1LE + LS7) Z28 with the option of MR or as LOWDOWN says enhanced FE4, or a dealer installed Pedders suspension. Simple!
MR is nice, really nice. With much respect to Chevy and all their effort behind this marvelous technology, I would say it's for those who can't fully maintain control of the ride. However guys who know how to drive the car don't need the electronics. Z28 ya'll? Make it 1LE Chevy with LS7, add Pedders enhancements direct from the factory. Shelby America takes the F and strips the factory parts from the ride and then adds their stuff at an escalated price to the counsumer. Who then gets the resale of all the brand new factory parts? Not the buyer. Where do all the brandy new factory parts go? Ok, back to what I think it should be. No SLP. No factory dealer installed anything. Brass knuckles, hard tacks, down and dirty Chevy, no Power Manual<thats OldScool> make it available AS IT WAS back in the day ala carte if need be..but from a box we can check off. The Z28 right now as we talk about it possibly coming to fruition within the next 4 years, has a short window of opportunity before the government CAFE KT boundary takes effect. Chevy has the technology, we can make it stronger, faster...Steve Majors would be proud to own that ride.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:18 PM   #1439
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
MR is nice, really nice. With much respect to Chevy and all their effort behind this marvelous technology, I would say it's for those who can't fully maintain control of the ride. However guys who know how to drive the car don't need the electronics. Z28 ya'll? Make it 1LE Chevy with LS7, add Pedders enhancements direct from the factory. Shelby America takes the F and strips the factory parts from the ride and then adds their stuff at an escalated price to the counsumer. Who then gets the resale of all the brand new factory parts? Not the buyer. Where do all the brandy new factory parts go? Ok, back to what I think it should be. No SLP. No factory dealer installed anything. Brass knuckles, hard tacks, down and dirty Chevy, no Power Manual<thats OldScool> make it available AS IT WAS back in the day ala carte if need be..but from a box we can check off. The Z28 right now as we talk about it possibly coming to fruition within the next 4 years, has a short window of opportunity before the government CAFE KT boundary takes effect. Chevy has the technology, we can make it stronger, faster...Steve Majors would be proud to own that ride.

Might as well go back to a solid axle and leaf springs too, crank up windows, manual locks, no AC/heat, etc.... I am sure they will sell all of 5 of them......

Sorry, but that is what the COPO or the body in White was for. They have to appeal to where most of the sales will come from... people want creature comforts..... Fbodfather stated before, to put that many variations on the assembly line now would create a higher priced vehicle for many reasons... slowed production, more inventory, more line changes, etc
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:26 PM   #1440
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Chevrolet did debut the COPO at SEMA. I have ZERO inside information on this idea, no one has said ANYTHING to me, but that doesn't stop me from GUESSING.

Is it possible that Chevrolet will really bring back the COPO? Central Office Production Order? A check box available for LS7, Pedders, Road Course Wheels and Tires... Could the COPO Drag Car be a hint at this?
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:27 PM   #1441
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MR is nice, really nice. With much respect to Chevy and all their effort behind this marvelous technology, I would say it's for those who can't fully maintain control of the ride.
Imagine that, all these many years driving without MR. How did we survive this long without it? LOL
Definately, I prefer better hardware than fancy software that's not need 99.9% of the time.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:04 AM   #1442
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
MR is nice, really nice. With much respect to Chevy and all their effort behind this marvelous technology, I would say it's for those who can't fully maintain control of the ride. However guys who know how to drive the car don't need the electronics. Z28 ya'll? Make it 1LE Chevy with LS7, add Pedders enhancements direct from the factory. Shelby America takes the F and strips the factory parts from the ride and then adds their stuff at an escalated price to the counsumer. Who then gets the resale of all the brand new factory parts? Not the buyer. Where do all the brandy new factory parts go? Ok, back to what I think it should be. No SLP. No factory dealer installed anything. Brass knuckles, hard tacks, down and dirty Chevy, no Power Manual<thats OldScool> make it available AS IT WAS back in the day ala carte if need be..but from a box we can check off. The Z28 right now as we talk about it possibly coming to fruition within the next 4 years, has a short window of opportunity before the government CAFE KT boundary takes effect. Chevy has the technology, we can make it stronger, faster...Steve Majors would be proud to own that ride.
Thats not how the GT500 is built. GT350, Super Snake, and other Shelbys? Sure. But the GT500 is a factory job with Shelby's name plastered on it.
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Might as well go back to a solid axle and leaf springs too, crank up windows, manual locks, no AC/heat, etc.... I am sure they will sell all of 5 of them......

Sorry, but that is what the COPO or the body in White was for. They have to appeal to where most of the sales will come from... people want creature comforts..... Fbodfather stated before, to put that many variations on the assembly line now would create a higher priced vehicle for many reasons... slowed production, more inventory, more line changes, etc
If you want absolutely everything, thats what the ZL1 is for. For that car, they took the 'more is better' approach. Add more power, add more technology, add more weight, add more cost ... it works for some, but not for all. Some of us prefer a simpler approach ... "design perfection is not achieved when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away". In other words ... keep it simple.

Crank windows & an SRA and those other things you mentioned are very hard to implement because it would usually require specially designed parts. Plus, it would require reworking parts of the assembly line, since it isn't setup to accommodate different types of parts for those components/assemblies. That makes things extremely expensive. But seeing as they already plan to build Camaros with 4 different engines (LFX, L99, LS3, LSA), adding a 5th isn't too big of a deal, especially when that 5th engine would be very similar to the 3 other V8s in terms of size & mounting. Same goes for the suspension. They already change up a bunch of parts for the SS vs the V6s, and will be doing the same thing again for the ZL1. So multiple suspension setups being assembled together is something GM can easily accommodate on the line, if they wanted to. The main added cost would be the difference in material cost for the parts, since it doesn't really matter what spring gets put into the suspension, from an assembly standpoint at least.

Quote:
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Chevrolet did debut the COPO at SEMA. I have ZERO inside information on this idea, no one has said ANYTHING to me, but that doesn't stop me from GUESSING.

Is it possible that Chevrolet will really bring back the COPO? Central Office Production Order? A check box available for LS7, Pedders, Road Course Wheels and Tires... Could the COPO Drag Car be a hint at this?
I'm thinking they're just using the name for a drag car, and not bringing back the old COPO ordering system.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:11 AM   #1443
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I'm thinking they're just using the name for a drag car, and not bringing back the old COPO ordering system.
From the Just Say No Mod
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:28 AM   #1444
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Imagine that, all these many years driving without MR. How did we survive this long without it? LOL
Definately, I prefer better hardware than fancy software that's not need 99.9% of the time.
Agreed. I realy don't need algorythyms and electronics to tell me how to drive.
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Might as well go back to a solid axle and leaf springs too, crank up windows, manual locks, no AC/heat, etc.... I am sure they will sell all of 5 of them......

Sorry, but that is what the COPO or the body in White was for. They have to appeal to where most of the sales will come from... people want creature comforts..... Fbodfather stated before, to put that many variations on the assembly line now would create a higher priced vehicle for many reasons... slowed production, more inventory, more line changes, etc
Disagree. The Z28 is ia a legendary name and should be feared. Knock down, drag out brawler. Ladies and non performance enthusiasts who need assistance in performance management NEED the electronics IE PTM< and alike to keep the car stable>. I don't. Make it REAL, make it RAW, and make it it a no holds barred racer. COPO is for 1320', make it for the steet as such. Shoot, Pete and Lingenfelter are doing it now, make a version based off their R&D and tame it down a tad to meet the production level market need. I don't need cup holders, power windows, door locks thank you as you suggested, laugh if you will, but back in the day I didn't,<we get it that certain creature comforts must be included> so it's nothing for me to not have it now. Give me a 10,000 watt stereio like Fbodfather said on top of all the performance and I'll be happier than a pig in s-it.!!!! Low rider, big rubber, bone jarring suspension, cold air sucking N/A LS7, with aero package, and gearing to match...that's Camaro Z28 Nirvana!
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:53 AM   #1445
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A
Disagree. The Z28 is ia a legendary name and should be feared. Knock down, drag out brawler. Ladies and non performance enthusiasts who need assistance in performance management NEED the electronics IE PTM< and alike to keep the car stable>. I don't. Make it REAL, make it RAW, and make it it a no holds barred racer. COPO is for 1320', make it for the steet as such. Shoot, Pete and Lingenfelter are doing it now, make a version based off their R&D and tame it down a tad to meet the production level market need. I don't need cup holders, power windows, door locks thank you as you suggested, laugh if you will, but back in the day I didn't,<we get it that certain creature comforts must be included> so it's nothing for me to not have it now. Give me a 10,000 watt stereio like Fbodfather said on top of all the performance and I'll be happier than a pig in s-it.!!!! Low rider, big rubber, bone jarring suspension, cold air sucking N/A LS7, with aero package, and gearing to match...that's Camaro Z28 Nirvana!
You say you disagree, but you didn't state anything that you disagreed with.....lol... You are asking for a car that requires complete retooling of the lines to complete. ..... again, what you are asking for is being introduced as the COPO now..... they will not sell enough of the specifics you are asking for.... NO ONE wants a harsh ride..... the only reason people had a harsh ride back in the day is because Pedders wasn't around to give them the best of both worlds... back then it was either good launch set up or nice ride.

I too am kinda wanting something between the 2SS and the ZL1, but what you are asking for ain't gonna happen...... no reason for GM to retool for a few people...
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