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Old 10-06-2011, 10:52 PM   #1205
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I'm sorry Pete but thats a 9% loss, and I just can't believe that it will be that efficient. If you say it will be 680ish at the crank, then I'd expect it to be somewhere around 590 to the wheel.
I'd agree with that, the estimate most peole use is about 15% loss from crank to rear.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:54 PM   #1206
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Oh did 2.99 say 680? I think Pete said 720.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:01 PM   #1207
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Oh did 2.99 say 680? I think Pete said 720.
I'm guessing that's a NA LSX engine.
As for 680rwhp. on the LS3, put forged internals, replace entire head assembly (including the cheap GM valves), put on a ProCharger and ta-da.
A little freebie for those of you who want to smoke the ZL1 without having to replace entire engine.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:17 PM   #1208
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We should be close to 620 at the rears. The TQ is what I am really excited about. It comes on low , fat and flat. That will make the Project Z predictable. Predictable is fast. It will be a driver's dream.
Exciting stuff !! can't wait to see the car & learn more when it's announced at SEMA. Can I ask what color your SEMA car is ? & Any stripes, & what color stripes ?
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:13 AM   #1209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calbert1999 View Post
I'm guessing that's a NA LSX engine.
As for 680rwhp. on the LS3, put forged internals, replace entire head assembly (including the cheap GM valves), put on a ProCharger and ta-da.
A little freebie for those of you who want to smoke the ZL1 without having to replace entire engine.
so throw all your parts away but keep the block.

it won't be an LS3, and if you're going to all that trouble you might as well install an lsx454.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #1210
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Originally Posted by calbert1999 View Post
I'm having an LSX-427 build in progress for my SS, it has forged internals, LSX heads, CAM, ProCharger and the upgraded fuel system.
We're estimating close to 800rwhp. and that's just scratching the surface. The same shop just completed a forged Z06 w/ LS7 a Vortech SC and it made 730rwhp.
I assure you the only ZL1 that will keep up to me will be the ZL1's that are modified with a stroker and SC that has more than a 1.9L capacity.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:39 PM   #1211
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I'm sorry Pete but thats a 9% loss, and I just can't believe that it will be that efficient. If you say it will be 680ish at the crank, then I'd expect it to be somewhere around 590 to the wheel.
Chevrolet lists the ZR1 at 638 HP. There are base line dyno runs showing the OE ZR1 between 578 558 to the rear wheels or 9 to 12% loss. Some of this can be explained by variations in OE engine output and / or differences in dynos. Using the same range we would be 598 to 612 RWHP or 605 split down the middle . Now if our engine dyno readings are a bit on the conservative side the 620 could be a real number or not.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:40 PM   #1212
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Oh did 2.99 say 680? I think Pete said 720.
I thought he said LS7
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:28 PM   #1213
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I thought he said LS7
Oh please You have no proof of that whatsoever....

Seriously, I'd love to see both beastly NA and Blown Camaros kick'n booty on the streets... but with all the fuel economy crap... are we really going to ignore a TT V6 or a or a baby LS7???

lets use the Vete as a bench mark...

base vette = SS
Z06 or Grand sport = Z28
ZR1 = ZL1

Think about that for a minute. I would love to see a 600hp LS7 but that doesn't make sense if we are thinking the ZL1 will be top dog in the Camaro HP race...

Just throwing that out there...

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Old 10-07-2011, 02:38 PM   #1214
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Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post

Think about that for a minute. I would love to see a 600hp LS7 but that doesn't make sense if we are thinking the ZL1 will be top dog in the Camaro HP race...

Just throwing that out there...

We are not talking factory here.... We are going way above and beyond GM!

JP special Z FTW!
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:01 PM   #1215
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Vette as "benchmark":

Z06 @ 3199 Curb = 7:22 @ the 'Ring (-133 "rated" hp)

ZR1 @ 3353 Curb = 7:19 @ the 'Ring (+154 "rated" lb.)

I believe you'll find a greater weight difference between a ZL1 and a "wet" LS7'd ZEE, but NOT as much hp. differential...

Whether equipped with a lower weight-optimized MR, or a BOSS-type "mechanical-only" weight-conscious suspension (non-MR), with 305s fr-rr, a ZEE could be a match (or veryvery close) for the ZL1...just as the BOSS, minus 100+ hp, is to the GT 500 at places like VIR...

It's one thing to have gi-normous power but, as the Vette shows/proves, it's another thing altogether to use that power effectively at all times.

And, as good as MR may be, it's not likely to harness almost 600 hp in 4100 lbs effectively at all times...it doesn't in the 3353 lb. ZR1...

IF the ZL1 is street-ready @ 4100 lbs, with 580 hp, that = 7.07 lb/hp. For an LS7 weighing 3850 lb (1SS Curb), 7.07 = 545 hp...NOT "impossible"...

As to the PEDDERS et al ZEE-something, some serious power is capable, at a significant weight-savings, with a massaged LS7...or WARHAWK...well beyond the LSA's "rated" 580/556...without the added mass of FI... 2 or 300 lb. on a road course car is mammoth weight to carry...and very significant to delete...

I suspect what's coming for SEMA is NOT hampered by GM's production viability constraints. Weight-savings that Oshawa will not have to worry about will be included. And the power-to-weight will dwarf the ZL1...as will its performance capabilities...

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 10-07-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:47 PM   #1216
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There are very valid reasons why the "Corvette track-star" is considered to be the Z06/Z07. It takes an incredibly talented "shoe" to wring 100% (or close to it) out of a ZR1. The car IS a monster, and not for the short-of-talent in any way...shape...form. Not that a Z06 is soooo much easier to "handle"...but it's certainly easier to get near-10/10ths out of a 500 hp car, than it is a 638 hp car. As it would also be on the street...

And so would a "production LS7" ZEE vs. a ZL1...less weight, less dough, more "fun", more sense of accomplishment. And maybe...just maybe...just as quick around a track...

More smiles per mile!

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 10-07-2011 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:27 PM   #1217
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Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post
Oh please You have no proof of that whatsoever....

Seriously, I'd love to see both beastly NA and Blown Camaros kick'n booty on the streets... but with all the fuel economy crap... are we really going to ignore a TT V6 or a or a baby LS7???

lets use the Vete as a bench mark...

base vette = SS
Z06 or Grand sport = Z28
ZR1 = ZL1

Think about that for a minute. I would love to see a 600hp LS7 but that doesn't make sense if we are thinking the ZL1 will be top dog in the Camaro HP race...

Just throwing that out there...

GM never asked US (the Z/28 guys in this thread) what version of the Camaro should be Top Dog. More import is the Top Dog Camaro was the Pedders USA Camaro, you know, what the ZL1 used for a benchmark, the car that ran as fast as a Z06 TWO years ago. Now if you thought for a split second that have been sitting idly by waiting for GM match us us on track

Dear GM,

Don't be upset with Pedders. We are using GMPP Pedders parts to go faster than the ZL1 and several versions of the Vette


As for CAFE -- Note to GM: SELL MORE VOLTS, Sonics and Cruzes. A LOT more so no one feels the impact of a ground pounding LS7 V8 in the cars we love. Maybe package them. One 600 RWHP LS7 Camaro with one Sonic and a Diesel Cruze

Who is coming to SEMA?
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #1218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Vette as "benchmark":

Z06 @ 3199 Curb = 7:22 @ the 'Ring (-133 "rated" hp)

ZR1 @ 3353 Curb = 7:19 @ the 'Ring (+154 "rated" lb.)

I believe you'll find a greater weight difference between a ZL1 and a "wet" LS7'd ZEE, but NOT as much hp. differential...

Whether equipped with a lower weight-optimized MR, or a BOSS-type "mechanical-only" weight-conscious suspension (non-MR), with 305s fr-rr, a ZEE could be a match (or veryvery close) for the ZL1...just as the BOSS, minus 100+ hp, is to the GT 500 at places like VIR...

It's one thing to have gi-normous power but, as the Vette shows/proves, it's another thing altogether to use that power effectively at all times.

And, as good as MR may be, it's not likely to harness almost 600 hp in 4100 lbs effectively at all times...it doesn't in the 3353 lb. ZR1...

IF the ZL1 is street-ready @ 4100 lbs, with 580 hp, that = 7.07 lb/hp. For an LS7 weighing 3850 lb (1SS Curb), 7.07 = 545 hp...NOT "impossible"...

As to the PEDDERS et al ZEE-something, some serious power is capable, at a significant weight-savings, with a massaged LS7...or WARHAWK...well beyond the LSA's "rated" 580/556...without the added mass of FI... 2 or 300 lb. on a road course car is mammoth weight to carry...and very significant to delete...

I suspect what's coming for SEMA is NOT hampered by GM's production viability constraints. Weight-savings that Oshawa will not have to worry about will be included. And the power-to-weight will dwarf the ZL1...as will its performance capabilities...
Spot on as always.
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