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Old 06-05-2011, 02:18 PM   #1
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GM almost lost one of its faithful, open letter to Chevrolet

I'm a long-time GM guy. Firebirds, Camaros, base Corvettes, Z06s, GTOs, CTS-V, Duramax pickups, Yukons, etc, etc. 20+ years of driving GM cars almost came to an end with my recent vehicle purchase. I'm writing this on a Camaro forum because it is Camaro relevant and I know GM representatives are active on this site. I write this not only on my behalf, but from the desires of a large portion of the GM muscle car market.

I started shopping for a new car seriously a few months ago. I wanted a new Camaro from the get-go. Loved the styling and of course I'm a big fan of the LS-series engines mated with a 6spd. As soon as I started reading posts, reviews, and comments, the weight and size issue became very evident. As a result of reviews I read, I went against my normal course of action and test drove a Mustang. I took both a Camaro and Mustang on extended over-night test drives. Sorry Chevy, I love the Camaro styling, but the performance edge went to Ford.

With the release of the Boss 302, Ford pushed that performance bar even higher. Please Chevy, pay attention and respond in kind. Shave a few hundred pounds off the Camaro and give us a Boss fighter! You don't even have to tweek the LS3 like Ford did with the 302 for the Boss. Give us a version with 19x9" or 18x9" light-weight wheels to shave weight and allow us to compete in SCCA F-stock autox without trying to find 20" race rubber. Leave the heavy 20" wheels on the SS street machine. Give us a Camaro with a backseat delete, not because we need one, but because it's cool as hell and Ford did it. I know you have the Corvette, but I'm talking going head-to-head with your muscle car competition. Kudos on the ZL1 as a GT500 competitor, now figure out how to give us a car that bridges the gap between the SS and the ZL1 that is aimed at putting the Boss in its place.

This story ends on a good note for GM. While waiting for a Boss 302 to come available at a reasonable price (aka not above MSRP), I found a closeout 2011 Corvette Grand Sport. I drove this car and fell in love. It is a home-run car. Please Chevy, you've seen the success of the Grand Sport, apply that same philosophy to the Camaro. Call it a Z28 or whatever you want to call it, but give us a Boss-fighter. Give us a car that BEATS the Mustang in all aspects. I know the 2012 has a revised suspension coming, but you still have the weight and size issue. I know the size issue can't be resolved until the C6, but until then focus on weight reduction and handling.

Thank you,
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:21 PM   #2
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That's what I'm talking about!
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:26 PM   #3
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When the 5th Gen Camaro platform has been out as long as the S-197 and still hasn't offered anything, then you might have grounds to complain. But expecting to see this kind of stuff on the third model year into production doesn't sound reasonable - it sounds petulant.

Ford doesn't have a Corvette equivalent. The Mustang is all they have to compete with both the Camaro and Corvette, so they are definitely going to release trim packages that the Camaro can't compete with but the Corvette can, and that's not a failing of the Camaro.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:40 PM   #4
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When the 5th Gen Camaro platform has been out as long as the S-197 and still hasn't offered anything, then you might have grounds to complain. But expecting to see this kind of stuff on the third model year into production doesn't sound reasonable - it sounds petulant.

Ford doesn't have a Corvette equivalent. The Mustang is all they have to compete with both the Camaro and Corvette, so they are definitely going to release trim packages that the Camaro can't compete with but the Corvette can, and that's not a failing of the Camaro.
+1 i'm with ya on this one.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:43 PM   #5
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When the 5th Gen Camaro platform has been out as long as the S-197 and still hasn't offered anything, then you might have grounds to complain. But expecting to see this kind of stuff on the third model year into production doesn't sound reasonable - it sounds petulant.

Ford doesn't have a Corvette equivalent. The Mustang is all they have to compete with both the Camaro and Corvette, so they are definitely going to release trim packages that the Camaro can't compete with but the Corvette can, and that's not a failing of the Camaro.

I couldn't care less about performance...a Mustang is still just a Mustang. Nice cars and all, but Camaros they ain't. It goes beyond performance.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:44 PM   #6
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So how did GM lose one of its faithful when you bought a Corvette?
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:45 PM   #7
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So how did GM lose one of its faithful when you bought a Corvette?
He said almost lost...
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:49 PM   #8
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Don't worry, a Z/28 is in the works... unless there is a name change or some disastrous issue that can't be overcome.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:53 PM   #9
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get a vette if you're looking for 302 killer from Chevy
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:42 PM   #10
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A vivid testament to the simple fact that you can not please all of the people all of the time...at least most of us are happy with our ride.
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:45 PM   #11
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You may want to read up on these threads.There is some good conversation going on about this very topic. Feel free to chime in!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149090

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145572
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:54 PM   #12
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I don't understand why some people are SO fixated on what Ford does.

I couldn't really care less if a "boss" passes my little V-6. I love my car more than any Mustang that I could ever own. I just like the car better.

If it weighed in 1500 lbs heavier and had the 0-60 times of a Corolla, I'd still like it more than a mustang.

Simply put, my "car-peen" is big enough already.
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:33 PM   #13
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I like my Camaro but if Ford comes out with a better Mustang when I am in the Market I will take look. If Camaro comes back with something better I will again take another look. I have owned a Ford product in the past as was happy with it.
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:51 PM   #14
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i took home a new 5.0 for a night drove the piss out of it. nice car but i couldn't see myself trading my ss in for one
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:14 PM   #15
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I sat in a new boss over the weekend. I love the racing buckets. They have a much nicer interior than our camaros. It really made me want my ZL1 even sooner.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:15 PM   #16
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I sat in a new boss over the weekend. I love the racing buckets. They have a much nicer interior than our camaros. It really made me want my ZL1 even sooner.
Hey coolman. I can't wait for you to get that. I may have to cruise by your house so you can give me a ride.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:17 PM   #17
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Hey coolman. I can't wait for you to get that. I may have to cruise by your house so you can give me a ride.
Sounds good. Come on over. I'll let you take her for a spin.
NOT! LOL
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:25 PM   #18
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Sounds good. Come on over. I'll let you take her for a spin.
NOT! LOL
LMAO Don't worry, I'm not one of those that would ask. I would just strap in and let you scare the crap out of me.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:29 PM   #19
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The Z/28 will be your Boss fighter, but that won't be released for a while.
It's a known fact that the Camaro's excess weight is a hindrance to its performance compared to the lighter Mustang. However this is not a problem that can be fixed overnight or with a few simple changed on the current platform (the back seat doesn't even weigh that much). You could have expected the Mustang to perform better even without the test drive, from the reviews from most of the major car magazines that give the win to the Mustang. This does not mean that the Camaro is a poor quality car, and there are still plenty of other reasons to buy it.
If you are in a place to get a Grand Sport Corvette, you should take that in a heartbeat.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:34 PM   #20
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Lightweight wheels are attainable. As are some power-adders for the LS3. Then, you don't have to live within the constraints of a Corvette which is quite non-functional in terms of cargo and passenger space.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:39 PM   #21
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the Camaro can compete with the GT, but the Boss is a track day car that is in it's own category. what GM brings to that fight is still an overweight, big wheeler.. of course you can get a Grand Sport at much more money, and it's a great car, but i think for the price would you rather have a Boss or a widebody c6? if only GM got serious as Ford, Porsche, Lamborghini, and Ferrari when it comes to lightweight options...
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:42 PM   #22
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The Z/28 will be your Boss fighter, but that won't be released for a while.
It's a known fact that the Camaro's excess weight is a hindrance to its performance compared to the lighter Mustang. However this is not a problem that can be fixed overnight or with a few simple changed on the current platform (the back seat doesn't even weigh that much). You could have expected the Mustang to perform better even without the test drive, from the reviews from most of the major car magazines that give the win to the Mustang. This does not mean that the Camaro is a poor quality car, and there are still plenty of other reasons to buy it.
If you are in a place to get a Grand Sport Corvette, you should take that in a heartbeat.
I can't understand why everyone says "Get a Corvette". That's a totally different style of car in a totally different class. And, as far as the ZL1 not being able to run with the boss is concerned, I don't know where this is coming from when we don't even know how the car really runs yet. I've never seen a test done yet. Have you?
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:44 PM   #23
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if only GM got serious as Ford, Porsche, Lamborghini, and Ferrari when it comes to lightweight options...


Have you seen Grand Am racing lately? Camaro's been kicking the tail of those Boss's. The Camaro's have enormous potential. Don't try selling that BS here.

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Old 06-05-2011, 10:34 PM   #24
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Ford doesn't have a Corvette equivalent.



Unless you mean because the GT is better you're mistaken
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:50 PM   #25
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Unless you mean because the GT is better you're mistaken
Didn't they stop making the Ford GT in 2007?
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