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Old 08-30-2011, 12:20 AM   #1
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Unhappy Dad shows me a paper on sunday, I fall into a deep depression...

My family knows nothing about me buying a ZL1 at the first of the Year.
My dad however knows I love anything that is fast.
So what does he do? He shows me on one of the back pages of the local newspaper a bright red convertible Shelby 350.....
624 HP......
My heart sank... I knew that more than likely GM will have dropped the ball on this one again. Will Chevy or has Chevy ever in its history released a CAMARO prior to Mustangs release with MORE horsepower? If it has it has been few and far between. Just glancing back I do not recall anything that stands out in particular. I am not here to bash Ford. It just really bugs the shit out of me that true loyal Chevy Camaro fans always get less then the mustang...
Either the price is higher on the Camaro, or the mustang stomps the Camaros ass... just saying..
I am afraid that history has repeated itself again....
Heck, not only do we have to worry about Shelby SS sneakin up on us but now the GTS and now the Shelby 350..... I have not even looked at the BOSS 302 yet..
I'm not tossing in the towel. I will still order a ZL1 as I cannot afford the Shelby 350 price tag at 70k i think this particular one was...
BUT... I COULD order a v8 Mustang GTS with 5.0 liter and SUPERCHARGER for about 51k or 52k. Would I be a traitor and buy the Mustang over the ZL1?
Plans at the moment No. I would not do that...but the temptation will always be there.

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Old 08-30-2011, 12:23 AM   #2
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I seen a thread awile back bought the dyno of the ZL1.
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:25 AM   #3
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The ZL1 stock is not going to push 600 HP...
Id hoped to get proved to be a liar on this one....
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:14 AM   #4
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All the Shelby cars, with the exception of the GT500, are aftermarket jobs. There are plenty of shops that will do the same sort of thing to the Camaro. Lingenfelter, SLP, and Hennessy are the first three that come to mind.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:31 AM   #5
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All the Shelby cars, with the exception of the GT500, are aftermarket jobs. There are plenty of shops that will do the same sort of thing to the Camaro. Lingenfelter, SLP, and Hennessy are the first three that come to mind.
This...
And what are you wanting… a low dollar factory car super car? If so, the ZL1 will do the job pretty well, heck the SS does it great...

If you want an original type car with the power to back it up, your pocketbook is the limit. You can take pretty much any car and make it a street or strip killer, including the soon to be released ZL1.
There needs to be a compromise when you shoot for under 60k.

I too wish to live in the magical world of $1 per horsepower, but alas it doesn’t exist. As you have heard before “need to pay to play”

But remember there will always…always be a car faster than you. Just ask that Super Snake or Camaro SS that passed you with another 30k in mods.

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Old 08-30-2011, 01:45 AM   #6
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Sounds like your more worried about having more HP than the guy next to you rather than buying what YOU want to own.

Besides as stated, those cars you mentioned are not production cars. They are factory GT's sent to shelby for aftermarket parts. You can do the same thing with an SS either through SLP or doing it yourself.

If you like the mustang more. Buy that. Personally I think the ZL1 has a ton more going for it than a GT500 but I can't afford either so.....
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MY68RS View Post
My family knows nothing about me buying a ZL1 at the first of the Year.
My dad however knows I love anything that is fast.
So what does he do? He shows me on one of the back pages of the local newspaper a bright red convertible Shelby 350.....
624 HP......
My heart sank... I knew that more than likely GM will have dropped the ball on this one again. Will Chevy or has Chevy ever in its history released a CAMARO prior to Mustangs release with MORE horsepower? If it has it has been few and far between. Just glancing back I do not recall anything that stands out in particular. I am not here to bash Ford. It just really bugs the shit out of me that true loyal Chevy Camaro fans always get less then the mustang...
Either the price is higher on the Camaro, or the mustang stomps the Camaros ass... just saying..
I am afraid that history has repeated itself again....
Heck, not only do we have to worry about Shelby SS sneakin up on us but now the GTS and now the Shelby 350..... I have not even looked at the BOSS 302 yet..
I'm not tossing in the towel. I will still order a ZL1 as I cannot afford the Shelby 350 price tag at 70k i think this particular one was...
BUT... I COULD order a v8 Mustang GTS with 5.0 liter and SUPERCHARGER for about 51k or 52k. Would I be a traitor and buy the Mustang over the ZL1?
Plans at the moment No. I would not do that...but the temptation will always be there.

If you are going to compare apples to apples you have to leave out the Shelby 350. Stick to comparing the ZL1 to the GT500 and Boss 302. And HP isn't everything. Look at the Boss - only 444 Hp but it will out lap the GT500 on the track. And remember, the 2012 GT500 has 550 HP - the 2012 ZL1 will already beat that. 2013 is another story all together so we will wait to argue that one. On top of that, I'm sure the ZL1 will out handle the GT500 and hopefully the Boss, but that remains to be seen.

With these cars aftermarket you have to look at the whole package. I've driven a Shelby Super Snake with the 750 HP package - my dad has one. 750 HP that should be awesome and beat everything!! Actually, the first few gears - well you are just worried about smoking the tires. In my opinion this is unusable HP and the car seems unbalanced. I don't want to have to worry about crashing all the time when I get on the gas driving around town. Plus the car is much more expensive than the ZL1 will be. You can add many thousands on top of the MSRP to get these numbers from an aftermarket builder.

I don't think a lot of these aftermarket people can track test to the extent GM does, so I'd bet on GM any day from that aspect. I think the ZL1 will be a totally balanced package and I hope it out handles the Boss and Im sure it would be better to drive than the Super Snake on a track heck it might even beat the Super Snake in a straight line as you cant use the HP until 3rd gear anyway. Anyone can just add HP, some wheels, and some springs it takes a lot more work to make that HP work for its intended purpose.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:19 AM   #8
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If you are going to compare apples to apples you have to leave out the Shelby 350. Stick to comparing the ZL1 to the GT500 and Boss 302. And HP isn't everything. Look at the Boss - only 444 Hp but it will out lap the GT500 on the track. And remember, the 2012 GT500 has 550 HP - the 2012 ZL1 will already beat that. 2013 is another story all together so we will wait to argue that one. On top of that, I'm sure the ZL1 will out handle the GT500 and hopefully the Boss, but that remains to be seen.

With these cars aftermarket you have to look at the whole package. I've driven a Shelby Super Snake with the 750 HP package - my dad has one. 750 HP that should be awesome and beat everything!! Actually, the first few gears - well you are just worried about smoking the tires. In my opinion this is unusable HP and the car seems unbalanced. I don't want to have to worry about crashing all the time when I get on the gas driving around town. Plus the car is much more expensive than the ZL1 will be. You can add many thousands on top of the MSRP to get these numbers from an aftermarket builder.

I don't think a lot of these aftermarket people can track test to the extent GM does, so I'd bet on GM any day from that aspect. I think the ZL1 will be a totally balanced package and I hope it out handles the Boss and Im sure it would be better to drive than the Super Snake on a track heck it might even beat the Super Snake in a straight line as you cant use the HP until 3rd gear anyway. Anyone can just add HP, some wheels, and some springs it takes a lot more work to make that HP work for its intended purpose.
Does your dad own those three? I want whatever job he's working at.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:23 AM   #9
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Me personally.... I think those are all nice cars... but they don't live up to their expectations performance wise or for the money they cost. I think the ZL1 will do all that and will be affordable.... its my opinion, but stick with your original plan and don't worry about those other cars... they'll prove themselves on the track soon.

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Old 08-30-2011, 08:39 AM   #10
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Does your dad own those three? I want whatever job he's working at.
Yeah - except he traded in the Challenger this year for a newer red jewel tint (or whatever they call it) SRT8. Also has a Ron Fellows Z06 and a CTS - (not CTS-V).

He owns and operates a farm and a commodity broker business, and has several other related companies.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:52 AM   #11
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I don't think there was a time where the Camaro was introduced with less HP than Mustang (of that current level)... EVER!

Depending on the driver, a Boss 302 will not beat a 2011+ GT500.
Shelby GTS is the Shelby GT failed project using the current GT
GT350 is a upgraded and updated version of the Shelby GT failed project using the current GT and adding a ton of Shelby signatures and a bit more cosmetics with ties to the original... (can discuss further if you like)

2012 ZL-1 > 2012 GT500 | 2013 ZL-1 ? 2013 GT500 (wait and see if the twin turbo reaches production)
2012 ZL-1 > 2012 Boss 302 | 2013 ZL-1 > 2013 Boss 302 (with equal drivers regardless of road course or strip)
2013 Z-28 > 2013 Boss 302
2011 ZL454 > 2011 GT350 N/A | 2011 ZL585 > 2011 GT350 Supercharged
2011 ZL-1 (SLP) > 2011 Super Snake
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:57 AM   #12
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If you are going to compare apples to apples you have to leave out the Shelby 350. Stick to comparing the ZL1 to the GT500 and Boss 302. And HP isn't everything. Look at the Boss - only 444 Hp but it will out lap the GT500 on the track. And remember, the 2012 GT500 has 550 HP - the 2012 ZL1 will already beat that. 2013 is another story all together so we will wait to argue that one. On top of that, I'm sure the ZL1 will out handle the GT500 and hopefully the Boss, but that remains to be seen.

With these cars aftermarket you have to look at the whole package. I've driven a Shelby Super Snake with the 750 HP package - my dad has one. 750 HP that should be awesome and beat everything!! Actually, the first few gears - well you are just worried about smoking the tires. In my opinion this is unusable HP and the car seems unbalanced. I don't want to have to worry about crashing all the time when I get on the gas driving around town. Plus the car is much more expensive than the ZL1 will be. You can add many thousands on top of the MSRP to get these numbers from an aftermarket builder.

I don't think a lot of these aftermarket people can track test to the extent GM does, so I'd bet on GM any day from that aspect. I think the ZL1 will be a totally balanced package and I hope it out handles the Boss and Im sure it would be better to drive than the Super Snake on a track heck it might even beat the Super Snake in a straight line as you cant use the HP until 3rd gear anyway. Anyone can just add HP, some wheels, and some springs it takes a lot more work to make that HP work for its intended purpose.
Sorry for stealing the thread, but the wheels on the Super Snake give a pretty good idea of what the black SSX wheel on the ZL1 would look like if it was polished instead. The dark blue paint color would not look too bad on the ZL1 either.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:06 AM   #13
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[QUOTE=Kahdir;3688824]

Depending on the driver, a Boss 302 will not beat a 2011+ GT500.

QUOTE]

Maybe - but barely.

http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/2011-ford-mustang-track-shoot-out.html

If anything, it proves that HP isn't always king given the package - one of the main arguments here. What does the extra 106 HP do for the GT500? Not much. If I were buying a Mustang it would be the Boss 302 Laguna Seca, but thats me. Im sure the ZL1 will beat them both.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:10 AM   #14
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Sorry for stealing the thread, but the wheels on the Super Snake give a pretty good idea of what the black SSX wheel on the ZL1 would look like if it was polished instead. The dark blue paint color would not look too bad on the ZL1 either.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled program.

Here you go Jedi - a better picture for you. Sorry for being off topic.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:31 AM   #15
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My family knows nothing about me buying a ZL1 at the first of the Year.

(How is this possible? I have announced my plans to everyone I know and a few hundred that I don't, in addition to hitting family members & calling the color every time I see a Camaro. I've promised them I'll stop hitting them when I have my ZL1.)


My dad however knows I love anything that is fast.
So what does he do? He shows me on one of the back pages of the local newspaper a bright red convertible Shelby 350.....
624 HP......
My heart sank... I knew that more than likely GM will have dropped the ball on this one again. Will Chevy or has Chevy ever in its history released a CAMARO prior to Mustangs release with MORE horsepower? If it has it has been few and far between. Just glancing back I do not recall anything that stands out in particular.

(Apparently you didn't notice the COPOs whose engines gave ZL1 it's name.)

... I am not here to bash Ford.

(This much is obvious, it looks very much like you're bashing Chevy though.)

... It just really bugs the shit out of me that true loyal Chevy Camaro fans always get less then the mustang...
Either the price is higher on the Camaro,

(as you note, the supposed 624hp Shelby you're talking about will be at least 15k more expensive than the ZL1, in addition to the Shelby being aftermarket upgraded. Would you care to try a race between a ZL1 with 15k of mods versus the Shelby?)


...or the mustang stomps the Camaros ass... just saying..
I am afraid that history has repeated itself again....
Heck, not only do we have to worry about Shelby SS sneakin up on us but now the GTS and now the Shelby 350..... I have not even looked at the BOSS 302 yet..
I'm not tossing in the towel. I will still order a ZL1 as I cannot afford the Shelby 350 price tag at 70k i think this particular one was...
BUT... I COULD order a v8 Mustang GTS with 5.0 liter and SUPERCHARGER for about 51k or 52k. Would I be a traitor and buy the Mustang over the ZL1?

(Good luck to anyone trying to get that to accelerate rather than melting tires. If doing burnouts is your favorite thing, then you'd be all over that.)


...Plans at the moment No. I would not do that...but the temptation will always be there.

Please note that I was answering with my thoughts as I was reading the post, and don't intend any disrespect to you as a person. I simply disagree with your perspective and reasoning.

If you like Mustangs as well as you like Camaros, (You're demented) that's fine with me. They're (somewhat) good cars too. Mustangs do have their uses.

After all, without an opponent, there can be no victory. ....


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Old 08-30-2011, 10:35 AM   #16
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I like all of them !

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If you are going to compare apples to apples you have to leave out the Shelby 350. Stick to comparing the ZL1 to the GT500 and Boss 302. And HP isn't everything. Look at the Boss - only 444 Hp but it will out lap the GT500 on the track. And remember, the 2012 GT500 has 550 HP - the 2012 ZL1 will already beat that. 2013 is another story all together so we will wait to argue that one. On top of that, I'm sure the ZL1 will out handle the GT500 and hopefully the Boss, but that remains to be seen.

With these cars aftermarket you have to look at the whole package. I've driven a Shelby Super Snake with the 750 HP package - my dad has one. 750 HP that should be awesome and beat everything!! Actually, the first few gears - well you are just worried about smoking the tires. In my opinion this is unusable HP and the car seems unbalanced. I don't want to have to worry about crashing all the time when I get on the gas driving around town. Plus the car is much more expensive than the ZL1 will be. You can add many thousands on top of the MSRP to get these numbers from an aftermarket builder.

I don't think a lot of these aftermarket people can track test to the extent GM does, so I'd bet on GM any day from that aspect. I think the ZL1 will be a totally balanced package and I hope it out handles the Boss and Im sure it would be better to drive than the Super Snake on a track heck it might even beat the Super Snake in a straight line as you cant use the HP until 3rd gear anyway. Anyone can just add HP, some wheels, and some springs it takes a lot more work to make that HP work for its intended purpose.
I don't know about you but I love them all. I would not have a problem driving each one of them and being proud.They all have there + & / but the looks of all of them cant be beat.If I could afford I would have one of each.
Nice garage their / menagerie !
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:47 AM   #17
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I think just about everyone posting before me has mostly already said what I was thinking. I will say that I don't care what car makes more power (because there's always a car that does and will). Power is not everything. Handling is not everything. To me, IMVHO - if the car doesn't speak to you, you're never going to be happy with it. The 5th Gen spoke to me as soon as I saw it, and ZL1 adds to my excitement even more. I'm sorry you've been disappointed, but all the power in the world isn't going to do a bit of good if the chassis can't use it. We don't know enough detail on ZL1 to reasonably draw any conclusions. It's your money and I do hope you find the car that does speak to you
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:57 AM   #18
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I think just about everyone posting before me has mostly already said what I was thinking. I will say that I don't care what car makes more power (because there's always a car that does and will). Power is not everything. Handling is not everything. To me, IMVHO - if the car doesn't speak to you, you're never going to be happy with it. The 5th Gen spoke to me as soon as I saw it, and ZL1 adds to my excitement even more. I'm sorry you've been disappointed, but all the power in the world isn't going to do a bit of good if the chassis can't use it. We don't know enough detail on ZL1 to reasonably draw any conclusions. It's your money and I do hope you find the car that does speak to you

Well spoken as a man with an obviously spiritual connection to the Camaro and ZL1.


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Old 08-30-2011, 10:58 AM   #19
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Well spoken as a man with an obviously spiritual connection to the Camaro and ZL1.


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Old 08-30-2011, 11:10 AM   #20
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As said above, HP isnt everything. the current Camaro SS has more HP than the Mustang GT, but its still a close race, some saying the stang has a slight advantage. It's weight, suspension, weight distribution, tires, etc, etc. Yes, HP helps. But its not the only factor. And plus, the Camaro has notoriously been the underdog since its inception. But that just makes it all the more satisfying when we win!!
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:10 AM   #21
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If you're worried about it stop effing around and just buy a Z06 and smoke em' both!!
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:44 AM   #22
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:48 PM   #23
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buy the fastest thing you can afford(but it might not be the prettiest)..
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by SSOOCH View Post
If you're worried about it stop effing around and just buy a Z06 and smoke em' both!!
Haha, valid point!
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:13 PM   #25
Wantconvertible

 
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Drives: 2011 SS/RS VERT
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The camaro looks better,so sexy
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