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Old 06-12-2011, 01:30 PM   #120
calbert1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WYKOFF69Z View Post
$53,000-$60,000 with options.
In America; Paid that for an SS with GFX, stripes, RS in Canada and I got a deal only paid $2k more than dealer cost.

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......"your lack of faith disturbs me" (Darth Vader) LOL...
Faith in God; Warranties for automakers even if you flip it still not the right dimensions. vs

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Originally Posted by shockandawe View Post
How can they offer an automatic, I thought only real men drove stick and wouldn't be interested in the ZL1 if it had an auto?
I'm sure the bean counters are advising the brass on what to do next to break even, or make a profit while they change their minds on everything from specs. to manufacturing #'s, distribution and sales #'s while trying to meet or exceed expectations.
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:38 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by SGOS252382 View Post
... People will also still purchase SS's and put superchargers on them. Sometimes it's easier to spend 35K on an SS. Then when you have the money spend another 10K on a supercharger, etc.
Some guys just don't have $55k from the get go ...
A lot of people wrongly assume the ZL1 is just a SS with a blower on top of the engine, so the price difference of dropping a blower onto an SS is only the drop in the bucket of getting the SS to anywhere come close to the ZL1. The upgraded rear-end, suspension, brakes, tranny, etc ... price would rack up quickly to duplicate it from an SS.

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Exactly. And, lot's of people like the customization aspect of getting a ride and "selecting" the parts they want vs accepting what's given, and in many cases you're not limited.
The dissappointment I had in the SS, was actually a positive experience that opened up a whole new world for me in performance enhancements. My SS, is now specifically designed to my specifications. And, continuing to test, tune and improve on it on a regular basis.
For those of you planning on getting a ZL1 congratulations, 550hp. is kind of lame at this point in the game. I had that with just a med. size CAM, and headers on an SS. I wonder how that's going to change the price tag though. Any word on that front?
All I can say is: How much money have you dropped into your supposedly superior SS already? It appears you haven't upgraded the rear-end in it yet? I'm sure you'll be forking over another $6k for the 9" upgrade here soon. It will put you probably around $65-70k+ (probably a lot more ... I'm just throwing out a conservative SWAG) if my "quick" math serves me correctly? Why not have bought a ZL1 as a starting point with far superior parts (than a stock SS) and work from there? Hmmmm ... seems like someone's hurt ego is throwing good money after bad to try and catch up to where they could have been had they planned on purchasing a ZL1 in the first place ... JMHO.
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:49 PM   #122
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Unless GM made a statement regarding production numbers since the Chicago introduction, production is NOT limited. Al O. (I believe it was) was quite clear about that. As far as the mark-up goes, I believe there is at least a couple dealer Sponsors here (I believe one, in fact, was posted in this thread) might or will sell at sticker. This is an uber special model though, so I would expect a premium for the first year.

I'm still thinking close to 580 horse'. We know LSA gets many different features in ZL1. New steel manifolds, upper plenum, EPS, dual-mode exhaust and who knows what else GM's got in store. While I don't expect a significant improvement in power from the manifolds, the dual-mode exhaust on base 'Vettes used to net 6 horsepower. I be EPS can add probably near that, and that cool new plenum may be a little more efficient, due to what appears to me, to be a smoother transition of air flow from the intercooler, up to the roof of the plenum where instead of being pushed down, the flow of the "V" perhaps turns the pressurized air toward the intake runners; I'm thinking a little higher efficiency, in that way, might be a possibiliy.

I would still like to see a 2300 from the factory, though, in ZL1. Besides the obvious validation and certifications, the biggest hang-up that I can see is the inlet position. The upper plenums between LS9 and LSA are interchangeable (if I remember correctly), and if the inlet can be engineered to work with the OEM air box, that doesn't seem like too big a deal to pull off. That 2300 would hardly have to sweat to push even closer to 600 horse' in ZL1. That's a lot to ask, though, I suppose.

I'm still very excited at the new information. To astound me, sub 4-second 0-60s and 12-second 1320' times would be necessary, stock. The more we hear, the more that seems to be a real possibility
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:58 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Paulster2 View Post

...to try and catch up to where they could have been had they planned on purchasing a ZL1 in the first place ... JMHO.
I obviously can't speak for any other SS owners, but there was no way I could have waited another 3 years to get into a Camaro. Will I end up spending as much, or more, on mods to get my car to ZL1 levels? Maybe, but like I said, at least I'm driving one now and not sitting on the couch with my fingers crossed waiting for the day a ZL1 shows up at the doorstep.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:00 PM   #124
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Well all of this talk about the ZL1 is sweet, but alas, the Z28 is getting pushed out further and further to not even be produced, until maybe the 6th Gen........so sad
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:06 PM   #125
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This is great news, now what we need is some pricing info. That is the next step in me making a decision. I told my dad about the auto option (hes a car lover too and where I got it from). He wants me to keep building my SS, I'm about 50-50 right now.

....and then there is of course, the dreaded dealer mark-up to deal with over the first 6 months. These things are going to be in demand, and I'm not over-paying for a car.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:09 PM   #126
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Well I thought about waiting for the ZL-1 (about 10 minutes). No doubt it will be an awesome car but here are my concerns for all of you talking prices. It's a first run of a new performance model. It sounds like it will be a limited production run (1 qtr 2012). It's already being talked about in the $50-55k range and it's not even close to production. For those of us older guys, remember when GM released cars like the ZR-1, GNX, etc for the first time? Sticker price and off the showroom floor price were two totally different numbers and not in a good way. Bottom line, if I was a betting man, for at least the first year, the ZL-1 is going to go for well over sticker. Will be interested to see how many anxiously awaiting it's release will actually be able to afford buying it. If you can good on ya. No hard feelings either way cause first and foremost I am a car guy so I can be happy modding an SS, driving a stocker ZL-1, or anything else for that matter. Excited to see it released but not going to in my garage anytime soon.
One of the main reasons GNX's sold for over MSRP at many of the dealerships that had them was that it was a very limited production vehicle with only 547 being produced, and the GNX was only offered for one model year, 1987.

The 1990 and 1991 ZR1s were also somewhat limited in production (availability of the Mercury Marine engine was a limiting factor along with the price, of course) with just over 3000 being produced in 1990 and just over 2000 being produced in 1991.

I don't believe that the availability and pricing of the 2012 ZL1 will be analogous to the 1987 GNX or the 1990 and 1991 ZR1's, as it has been stated that the ZL1 will not be a limited production vehicle. The ZL1 will have a two quarter (half year) production run for the 2012 model year. Then, of course, the ZL1 will have a full year production run in 2013, and thereafter.

I believe that individuals will be able to obtain 2012 ZL1's at MSRP with a little diligence (finding a dealer that sells at MSRP) and a little patience.

I think it's great that those of us who want a ZL1 will be able to purchase one, and those who want an SS and modify the hell out of it (or not) can do so.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:13 PM   #127
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The guys that have 550hp ZL1 will still have a warranty.... You will not!

To each their own!
I think these guys who shot their waad on the mods are a little pissed because of no warranty and they won't have the cash for a ZL1.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:19 PM   #128
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I am very glad that this will be a regular production vehicles. It gives the zl1 a chance at being a sales and image draw for the camaro, as well as giving an opportunity for enthused fans to buy one.

As for the prices, its been my experience that any car can be bought at the right price (meaning no mark-ups). The key will be using some "street smarts" when shopping, and finding that dealer that wants to make an honest sale. I don't believe in mark-ups (and neither does the resale market) and I'll never overpay for a new car; However it will all depend on how well the car sells in order to obtain a good discount. Timing will definitely be the key in getting a zl1 at the right price.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:20 PM   #129
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After spending lots o' money modding Jeeps and cars a $55K price tag is a deal. Can you get an SS to 575 at the crank for a a little money? Yes. Can you get an SS to 575 w/ magnetic supension, active exhaust, bigger brakes, bigger drive shaft, bigger half shafts, stronger torque converter, stronger transmission, improved aeros, working hood, improved interior, etc.? Not even close. And you'll be able to have a warranty if you can bear not to touch it.

Hell I had that much in an 01 Jeep TJ(Wrangler) when all was said and done and I did 90% or the labor.

Believe it or not thes car is a bargain. I'm sure there are guys here w/ that much into their SSs pretty quick w/ some mods to go. And trust me there can be a ton of headaches when modding a car in regards to reliability and drivability.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:22 PM   #130
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I obviously can't speak for any other SS owners, but there was no way I could have waited another 3 years to get into a Camaro. Will I end up spending as much, or more, on mods to get my car to ZL1 levels? Maybe, but like I said, at least I'm driving one now and not sitting on the couch with my fingers crossed waiting for the day a ZL1 shows up at the doorstep.
I was actually waiting on the Z28 but that's looking more like a pipe dream with each passing update on the ZL1.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:33 PM   #131
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Those of us with modded SS's could care less about a warranty.....we knew the consequences for our actions. I have barely used any warranty I have ever had on my vehicles. For the price of a ZL1, I would have a nice used Z06 in my garage. The ZL1 is a great looking car, minus the steering wheel, and I'm sure if I didn't have my modded SS I would look at one after the price comes down a bit, but all this talk about warranties kills me. I'm still right around the price tag of a ZL1 with all my upgrades including my new 418 stroker motor. Can't wait to give the ZL1 a beat down with my supposed inferior parts car. Call me when the warrantied ZL1 hits low 10s like mine and we will have a better argument........until then, who cares about one. Have fun with both cars. Those of us that race regularly don't think about these things anyways. If it breaks, then fix it with better, stronger parts.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:34 PM   #132
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I think these guys who shot their waad on the mods are a little pissed because of no warranty and they won't have the cash for a ZL1.
Wrong, guess again.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:35 PM   #133
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One of the main reasons GNX's sold for over MSRP at many of the dealerships that had them was that it was a very limited production vehicle with only 547 being produced, and the GNX was only offered for one model year, 1987.

The 1990 and 1991 ZR1s were also somewhat limited in production (availability of the Mercury Marine engine was a limiting factor along with the price, of course) with just over 3000 being produced in 1990 and just over 2000 being produced in 1991.

I don't believe that the availability and pricing of the 2012 ZL1 will be analogous to the 1987 GNX or the 1990 and 1991 ZR1's, as it has been stated that the ZL1 will not be a limited production vehicle. The ZL1 will have a two quarter (half year) production run for the 2012 model year. Then, of course, the ZL1 will have a full year production run in 2013, and thereafter.

I believe that individuals will be able to obtain 2012 ZL1's at MSRP with a little diligence (finding a dealer that sells at MSRP) and a little patience.

I think it's great that those of us who want a ZL1 will be able to purchase one, and those who want an SS and modify the hell out of it (or not) can do so.

Valid points and you very well could be correct. We shall see if a two quarter production run and over-zealous dealers impact the bottom line on the contract. I am still betting the mark-up will be over the top for at least the first year. If they continue to produce, the prices will self-correct. I'm not in the market for one so I'll just sit back and watch.

On another note, nice little collection in your stable.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:41 PM   #134
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I am absolutely just giddy about this car!
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:46 PM   #135
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Those of us with modded SS's could care less about a warranty.....we knew the consequences for our actions. I have barely used any warranty I have ever had on my vehicles. For the price of a ZL1, I would have a nice used Z06 in my garage. The ZL1 is a great looking car, minus the steering wheel, and I'm sure if I didn't have my modded SS I would look at one after the price comes down a bit, but all this talk about warranties kills me. I'm still right around the price tag of a ZL1 with all my upgrades including my new 418 stroker motor. Can't wait to give the ZL1 a beat down with my supposed inferior parts car. Call me when the warrantied ZL1 hits low 10s like mine and we will have a better argument........until then, who cares about one. Have fun with both cars. Those of us that race regularly don't think about these things anyways. If it breaks, then fix it with better, stronger parts.


Yes,but it will never be a ZL1, nor will never have the esteem and value! My money is on the ZL1.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:46 PM   #136
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And on another note......all the extra goodies on the ZL1 are great, but to upgrade to the ones you actually need on an SS is not that expensive. I have no drivability issues and no trouble with braking. I won't be on a road course so I'm good there too. Driveshaft is fine and so is the tranny. If they go, I will replace them. I'm sure the car is a bargain, but I for one am not butt hurt by it for any reason. I like my early production SS. And it makes it even more fun when a car that is not supposed to be that fast wipes the floor with Shelbys and Z06's at the track. I also don't care about the ZL1 name. I didn't mod mine to be one. I modded it to be a bad ass SS pony killer.
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