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Old 06-12-2011, 11:30 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
and here I thought I was the only one who noticed that
Well agreed on!


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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
600+ is getting a little ambitious. If the LLT makes 2.6% more power in the Camaro than it does in the CTS, then that should translate into roughly the same sort of gain in the ZL1. There is also the electric power steering, which would free up a bit of power in the ZL1 vs CTS-V (I think ... unless the CTS-V has EPS too ... ). So all in all, 575 hp isn't unreasonable to expect for a ZL1. Thats obviously not 600+, but its a good deal above 556 too ...

As far as being being 'astounded' by the numbers ... for me, that would take a sub 4 second 0-60 and a 1/4 in the 12's ...

I think those numbers are doable, given what the CTS-V accomplishes but I'd still be astounded to see them
Sorry maybe I worded a bit wrong, but I meant that its easily capable of 600+ rwhp. Not that we should receive it with 600+ rwhp. That would be a bit of overkill But about 575-600 as you were saying at the crank would be good imho. But for those who most likely mod their's within the first month of delivery will be easily able to pulley, exhaust, intake, maybe cam, and pull out 600+ rwhp without a doubt! If GM were just to jump the gun and put out a factory car with 600 to the wheels, Ford's response would be to jump up there too and then soon there would be no more room to put more performance into the car other than scraping current idea and dropping the weight of the car drastically. So many combo's and numbers GM can make for this ZL1 that we aren't aware of. Lets hope its lighter than the current Camaro SS and 575hp as you stated
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:39 AM   #114
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......"your lack of faith disturbs me" (Darth Vader) LOL...
whoops ... I didn't mean to say 'in the 12s'. I probably had 'sub 12 second' written at one point, then when I changed it I forgot to switch that one part
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:00 PM   #115
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Don'tcha just luv it when the Big 3 compete against each other for our satisfaction? They get all the headaches and we get .............................ALL THE POWER!!!!
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:07 PM   #116
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I would like to see an option like the 69 zl1 where it is bare with no radio or anything that, just you and the car and that sweet engine and exhaust sound
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:09 PM   #117
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I would like to see an option like the 69 zl1 where it is bare with no radio or anything that, just you and the car and that sweet engine and exhaust sound
And that would never happen!!
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:16 PM   #118
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When it comes to a warranty - edelbrock's supercharger for the regular 5.0 GT offers one and it's for the powertrain not the s/c. $900 option. So a brembo equipped GT that tied the m3 at the track (willow springs) and bested it in the 1/4 mike - means a 550-600 HP GT, with warranty for $40k. Hard to beat that stick with a snake and it's available now.

Zl1 will be a great car but expect egregious dealer mark- ups, same as when the gt500 first popped on the scene. Dealers adding +$20-$30k to the car. In that senario, z06 all the way - better car IMO.

Zl1 over 50k is going to be a non-starter. Plus, the gt500 will get a HP boost on a car that's not a 1st year run.

Btw, there is nothing wrong with s/c an SS. Even if you split the block a crate engine replacement - your still ahead of the game.
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:19 PM   #119
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Based on what my CTS-V did stock, the Zr1 should have no problems hitting mid to high 11s with an auto. Hopefully they can keep the weight below 4000 lbs.

I am willing to bet the higher than 550hp number will probably come from a better flowing exhaust than what is on the cts-v. I just don't see them changing anything in the motor just to put it in the zl1. Changing from the puny 2inch to a 3 inch exhaust and a set of mufflers on my V gave me another 25rwhp. I would say they will rate hp at 575hp. I seriously doubt they will go as high as 600hp stock
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:30 PM   #120
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$53,000-$60,000 with options.
In America; Paid that for an SS with GFX, stripes, RS in Canada and I got a deal only paid $2k more than dealer cost.

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......"your lack of faith disturbs me" (Darth Vader) LOL...
Faith in God; Warranties for automakers even if you flip it still not the right dimensions. vs

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How can they offer an automatic, I thought only real men drove stick and wouldn't be interested in the ZL1 if it had an auto?
I'm sure the bean counters are advising the brass on what to do next to break even, or make a profit while they change their minds on everything from specs. to manufacturing #'s, distribution and sales #'s while trying to meet or exceed expectations.
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:38 PM   #121
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... People will also still purchase SS's and put superchargers on them. Sometimes it's easier to spend 35K on an SS. Then when you have the money spend another 10K on a supercharger, etc.
Some guys just don't have $55k from the get go ...
A lot of people wrongly assume the ZL1 is just a SS with a blower on top of the engine, so the price difference of dropping a blower onto an SS is only the drop in the bucket of getting the SS to anywhere come close to the ZL1. The upgraded rear-end, suspension, brakes, tranny, etc ... price would rack up quickly to duplicate it from an SS.

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Exactly. And, lot's of people like the customization aspect of getting a ride and "selecting" the parts they want vs accepting what's given, and in many cases you're not limited.
The dissappointment I had in the SS, was actually a positive experience that opened up a whole new world for me in performance enhancements. My SS, is now specifically designed to my specifications. And, continuing to test, tune and improve on it on a regular basis.
For those of you planning on getting a ZL1 congratulations, 550hp. is kind of lame at this point in the game. I had that with just a med. size CAM, and headers on an SS. I wonder how that's going to change the price tag though. Any word on that front?
All I can say is: How much money have you dropped into your supposedly superior SS already? It appears you haven't upgraded the rear-end in it yet? I'm sure you'll be forking over another $6k for the 9" upgrade here soon. It will put you probably around $65-70k+ (probably a lot more ... I'm just throwing out a conservative SWAG) if my "quick" math serves me correctly? Why not have bought a ZL1 as a starting point with far superior parts (than a stock SS) and work from there? Hmmmm ... seems like someone's hurt ego is throwing good money after bad to try and catch up to where they could have been had they planned on purchasing a ZL1 in the first place ... JMHO.
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:49 PM   #122
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Unless GM made a statement regarding production numbers since the Chicago introduction, production is NOT limited. Al O. (I believe it was) was quite clear about that. As far as the mark-up goes, I believe there is at least a couple dealer Sponsors here (I believe one, in fact, was posted in this thread) might or will sell at sticker. This is an uber special model though, so I would expect a premium for the first year.

I'm still thinking close to 580 horse'. We know LSA gets many different features in ZL1. New steel manifolds, upper plenum, EPS, dual-mode exhaust and who knows what else GM's got in store. While I don't expect a significant improvement in power from the manifolds, the dual-mode exhaust on base 'Vettes used to net 6 horsepower. I be EPS can add probably near that, and that cool new plenum may be a little more efficient, due to what appears to me, to be a smoother transition of air flow from the intercooler, up to the roof of the plenum where instead of being pushed down, the flow of the "V" perhaps turns the pressurized air toward the intake runners; I'm thinking a little higher efficiency, in that way, might be a possibiliy.

I would still like to see a 2300 from the factory, though, in ZL1. Besides the obvious validation and certifications, the biggest hang-up that I can see is the inlet position. The upper plenums between LS9 and LSA are interchangeable (if I remember correctly), and if the inlet can be engineered to work with the OEM air box, that doesn't seem like too big a deal to pull off. That 2300 would hardly have to sweat to push even closer to 600 horse' in ZL1. That's a lot to ask, though, I suppose.

I'm still very excited at the new information. To astound me, sub 4-second 0-60s and 12-second 1320' times would be necessary, stock. The more we hear, the more that seems to be a real possibility
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:58 PM   #123
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...to try and catch up to where they could have been had they planned on purchasing a ZL1 in the first place ... JMHO.
I obviously can't speak for any other SS owners, but there was no way I could have waited another 3 years to get into a Camaro. Will I end up spending as much, or more, on mods to get my car to ZL1 levels? Maybe, but like I said, at least I'm driving one now and not sitting on the couch with my fingers crossed waiting for the day a ZL1 shows up at the doorstep.
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:00 PM   #124
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Well all of this talk about the ZL1 is sweet, but alas, the Z28 is getting pushed out further and further to not even be produced, until maybe the 6th Gen........so sad
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:06 PM   #125
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This is great news, now what we need is some pricing info. That is the next step in me making a decision. I told my dad about the auto option (hes a car lover too and where I got it from). He wants me to keep building my SS, I'm about 50-50 right now.

....and then there is of course, the dreaded dealer mark-up to deal with over the first 6 months. These things are going to be in demand, and I'm not over-paying for a car.
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:09 PM   #126
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Well I thought about waiting for the ZL-1 (about 10 minutes). No doubt it will be an awesome car but here are my concerns for all of you talking prices. It's a first run of a new performance model. It sounds like it will be a limited production run (1 qtr 2012). It's already being talked about in the $50-55k range and it's not even close to production. For those of us older guys, remember when GM released cars like the ZR-1, GNX, etc for the first time? Sticker price and off the showroom floor price were two totally different numbers and not in a good way. Bottom line, if I was a betting man, for at least the first year, the ZL-1 is going to go for well over sticker. Will be interested to see how many anxiously awaiting it's release will actually be able to afford buying it. If you can good on ya. No hard feelings either way cause first and foremost I am a car guy so I can be happy modding an SS, driving a stocker ZL-1, or anything else for that matter. Excited to see it released but not going to in my garage anytime soon.
One of the main reasons GNX's sold for over MSRP at many of the dealerships that had them was that it was a very limited production vehicle with only 547 being produced, and the GNX was only offered for one model year, 1987.

The 1990 and 1991 ZR1s were also somewhat limited in production (availability of the Mercury Marine engine was a limiting factor along with the price, of course) with just over 3000 being produced in 1990 and just over 2000 being produced in 1991.

I don't believe that the availability and pricing of the 2012 ZL1 will be analogous to the 1987 GNX or the 1990 and 1991 ZR1's, as it has been stated that the ZL1 will not be a limited production vehicle. The ZL1 will have a two quarter (half year) production run for the 2012 model year. Then, of course, the ZL1 will have a full year production run in 2013, and thereafter.

I believe that individuals will be able to obtain 2012 ZL1's at MSRP with a little diligence (finding a dealer that sells at MSRP) and a little patience.

I think it's great that those of us who want a ZL1 will be able to purchase one, and those who want an SS and modify the hell out of it (or not) can do so.
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